buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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September 16th, 2012 at 6:16:16 PM permalink
I thought I recognized 2 church members from the ' Survivors" and another from " Big Brother" .
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 17th, 2012 at 7:14:34 PM permalink
I recorded it.

Amateur hour. Incredibly naive card counting team. They
made every mistake possible and weren't even aware they
were making them

A lot of the team members said they've been kicked out
of hundreds of casinos across the US. Amateurs. They
were Christian's so even considering some of the team
members might be stealing was not even as issue. They
were paid an hourly wage, so if you play 6 hours at 4
different casinos and make $22K, you made $120 for
yourself that day. But you were playing alone, have $22K
burning a hole in your jeans, and none of them were
ever tempted to peel off $5K for themselves and turn
in the rest? Sure they weren't, they're infallible Xtion's.

The one guy who got let go for stealing was the only
non Xtion and he was fired because God ratted him out
to a team member. I kid you not. They would find that
sometimes as many as five members had no idea how
to count cards, yet they were given thousands and sent
into the casinos.

Watch this embarrassing naive amateur baloney just to
find out all the things to do not to build a successful
BJ team. Just because they made money once in awhile
doesn't mean they got it right.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
JSTAT
JSTAT
Joined: Feb 8, 2011
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September 17th, 2012 at 8:25:50 PM permalink
Here is Arnold Snyder, Bishop of The First Church of Blackjack, giving a sermon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdxZD_oDgTY
Casino reporter, enjoys blackjack/baccarat card counting, Bay Area poker pro, JSTAT@Casino_Examiner on Twitter
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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September 17th, 2012 at 8:51:27 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Watch this embarrassing naive amateur baloney just to find out all the things to do not to build a successful BJ team.
Just because they made money once in awhile doesn't mean they got it right.


Heck, even the "real professionals", the early teams from MIT, perfected their skills and tested them out in Connecticut before flying to the big time... and they got creamed by Lady Variance.
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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September 17th, 2012 at 9:20:01 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I recorded it.

Amateur hour. Incredibly naive card counting team. They
made every mistake possible and weren't even aware they
were making them

A lot of the team members said they've been kicked out
of hundreds of casinos across the US. Amateurs. They
were Christian's so even considering some of the team
members might be stealing was not even as issue. They
were paid an hourly wage, so if you play 6 hours at 4
different casinos and make $22K, you made $120 for
yourself that day. But you were playing alone, have $22K
burning a hole in your jeans, and none of them were
ever tempted to peel off $5K for themselves and turn
in the rest? Sure they weren't, they're infallible Xtion's.

The one guy who got let go for stealing was the only
non Xtion and he was fired because God ratted him out
to a team member. I kid you not. They would find that
sometimes as many as five members had no idea how
to count cards, yet they were given thousands and sent
into the casinos.

Watch this embarrassing naive amateur baloney just to
find out all the things to do not to build a successful
BJ team. Just because they made money once in awhile
doesn't mean they got it right.



First of all they weren't all Christians as the promos and documentary suggest, Bob. In a guest chat on a blackjack site, Colin estimated that 80% of the 50 people involved over the 6 years were Christians. He also stated that they did have quite a few trust issues, same as any other blackjack team in which they began to question and suspect each other. I guess they didn't want to mention this in the movie as it would kind of defeat the whole catchy angle of a "Christian Blackjack Team".

My personal first impression was that this project was backwards. I mean you read one of the books about the MIT team and you know that the project was the blackjack team. There was no thought of a book during the time of their experiences. The book idea was an after thought and by an outsider. With this project I felt just the opposite, that the main primary project was to do the documentary. Like, "hey wouldn't it be great to make a documentary about a religious blackjack team?" The media idea first, the team and experiences second. Just my opinion.

Amateurs? Well they certainly made some mistakes along the way. I don't know that I would classify them as amateurs. I forget the monetary number they claim to have made over the 6 years. I want to say $3.5 million, but that may not be correct. Can't seem to find it any where. I do know that in the chat that I am referencing, Colin, claimed to have personally made over $700 thousand playing and another $600 thousand managing the team over 6 years. With though figures as results, I wouldn't classify them as amateurs. Of course, neither of us are in a position to know if those figures are accurate or not. (but hey...they are Christians. I am sure they are not lying. lol)

Bob, I do agree with your 'amateur' assessment as far as barrings and backoffs go. 100's of barrings and backoffs seems like a lot. Obviously they adopted a slash and burn style, not caring about longevity. As a solo player, who's primary concern is longevity, that is hard for me to relate to. On the other hand claiming 100's of backoffs and barrings adds credibility to the idea that you were a major threat to the industry. There are a number of players or former blackjack players running around selling books, video's, seminars and they all state that they were sooo good that they have been backed off at every casino and can no longer play. That is part of the sales pitch. Again, hard for me to relate to. In my mind, part of being successful is to avoid backoffs and barrings and still be able to play. To learn just what the tolerance levels are of different locations and stay within their comfort levels as much as possible. Sure, if you play a lot, there is always going to be some countermeasures, including a few backoffs and barrings, but a really successful player should be able to keep it to a minimum.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 17th, 2012 at 9:21:29 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

and they got creamed by Lady Variance.



I not talking about variance. They did the math and
found their 'bad luck' had a 1/10,000 chance of being
vaiance. It was team members who thought they were
counting and weren't, and thievery. And so many of them
got thrown out of 'hundreds of casinos'. Thats just
rank amateurism. They trusted far too much to God and a
business model, and didn't invest enough time in doing
a good job.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 17th, 2012 at 9:36:09 PM permalink
Quote: kewlj

First of all they weren't all Christians as the promos an documentary suggest, Bob. In a guest chat on a blackjack site, Colin estimated that 80% of the 50 people involved over the 6 years were Christians. He also stated that they did have quite a few trust issues, same as any other blackjack team in which they began to question and suspect each other.



They told a different story in the movie. They never
doubted their fellow brothers, and only suspected
the one non Xtion in their midst. They never even
hinted they had more than one.

Quote: kewlj

Like, "hey wouldn't it be great to make a documentary about a religious blackjack team?" The media idea first, the team and experiences second. Just my opinion.



I felt the same way. They started making the film 3 years
before they quit playing. I think they made some money,
but not what they claimed. The whole thing had a funny
feeling to it, they were all so matter of fact about everything.
No anger, no hard feelings, they were all blah emotionally.
It didn't feel real.


Quote: kewlj

There are a number of players or former blackjack players running around selling books, video's, seminars and they all state that they were sooo good that they have been backed off at every casino and can no longer play. That is part of the sales pitch.



Even Thorp did this in Beat the Dealer. We're supposed to believe
that the first time he played BJ in a casino for real, he was so
skilled, and the variance was so much on his side, that he got
banned from every casino in Reno in one weekend. Baloney.

These people are doing the same thing, we were so good, so
dangerous that we got kicked out of hundreds of casinos. Bull..
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
kmumf
kmumf
Joined: Jul 5, 2011
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September 18th, 2012 at 10:40:44 AM permalink
This movie really seemed to just drag on to me. We get it you like god you play black jack move on.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 18th, 2012 at 12:02:53 PM permalink
Quote: kmumf

This movie really seemed to just drag on to me. We get it you like god you play black jack move on.



They didn't seem like BJ team players. There was never
any talk about BJ when they got together, playing the
actual game in the casino. If you've ever played on a
team, thats all you talk about. Dealers, the pit giving you
the stinkeye, keeping the count and losing the count.
And how much were they playing for, what was the spread,
they never got into any of it. Just kept flashing piles of
money & showing hidden camera snippets of them getting 86'd.

What were they doing that they got 86'd in 12min and 15min
and 25min? How would they even know the shoe was ready
12min after they sat down. Do they want us to believe they
were so well known that every casino had their pics right
their and was constantly on the look out for them? I don't
think so.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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September 18th, 2012 at 5:45:26 PM permalink
I watched it again. One of their best players says he was
kicked out of every casino he played in eventually. If true,
this is just silly. Nobody gets kicked out of every casino
unless he wants to be kicked out.

After seeing this again, this has got to be the most inept
BJ team I've ever seen. Their training was almost non
existent for new players. They tested one of their 'best'
players who hadn't played in awhile, and he had no idea
what he was doing. This is why they went down so fast,
inept players and theft. The players who did know how to
play must have carried the team until there was just too
much dead weight aboard and it sunk them.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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