OnceDear
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
• Posts: 4328
October 30th, 2018 at 10:17:43 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

That is not how people use the world 'hold'. What you are describing is a house edge, or house advantage.
My interpretation is this.... If the average BJ player comes to the table with \$1000 buy in, and on average leaves with \$800, the 'hold' is 20%. The house edge per hand played may be 1.5%.
For slots I would interpret it the same way. The average player may feed \$100 into the machine, and on average walk away with \$65, so I would call the 'hold' 35%, even though the house edge per spin may have been only 6%.

Others here I hope will confirm my interpretation.

Good point.
https://www.casinopedia.org/terms/h/hold-percentage
Take care out there. Spare a thought for the newly poor who were happy in their world just a few days ago, but whose whole way of life just collapsed..
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
• Posts: 5913
Thanks for this post from:
October 30th, 2018 at 10:23:55 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

That is not how people use the world 'hold'. What you are describing is a house edge, or house advantage.
My interpretation is this.... If the average BJ player comes to the table with \$1000 buy in, and on average leaves with \$800, the 'hold' is 20%. The house edge per hand played may be 1.5%.
For slots I would interpret it the same way. The average player may feed \$100 into the machine, and on average walk away with \$65, so I would call the 'hold' 35%, even though the house edge per spin may have been only 6%.

Others here I hope will confirm my interpretation.

Slots machines are calculated differently than table games. On slot machines you know exactly how much the patron has wagered so the calculation is based on the wagered amount and not the buy in amount. If the patron put a \$100 bill in a slot machine and spun the reels 100 times at \$3 per spin and cashed out \$65. The win is still \$35 but the hold percentage is 11.6% (35/300).
Living longer does not always infer +EV
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
• Posts: 6703
October 30th, 2018 at 10:58:35 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Slots machines are calculated differently than table games. On slot machines you know exactly how much the patron has wagered so the calculation is based on the wagered amount and not the buy in amount. If the patron put a \$100 bill in a slot machine and spun the reels 100 times at \$3 per spin and cashed out \$65. The win is still \$35 but the hold percentage is 11.6% (35/300).

Then it is less than useless to compare the two, or include them in any meaningful analysis. According to your definition, slot 'hold' and slot 'house edge' will always be by definition the same. While table game 'hold' is substantially different from table game 'house edge'. I believe the table game definition is more usable by a casino in figuring out how valuable a patron is.
Wizard
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 21506
October 30th, 2018 at 11:47:25 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Then it is less than useless to compare the two, or include them in any meaningful analysis. According to your definition, slot 'hold' and slot 'house edge' will always be by definition the same. While table game 'hold' is substantially different from table game 'house edge'. I believe the table game definition is more usable by a casino in figuring out how valuable a patron is.

What DRich wrote and your understanding above are correct. It is confusing that "hold percentage" is defined differently for tables and slots. For what little it's worth, while players see just one casino, in the industry tables and slots are completely different worlds with their own departments and terminology.

For calculating the value of a patron, the bottom line is "theoretical loss" or just "theo." This is based on time played, house edge, and average bet.

Regarding the Sands, I know too much to comment, but you have to give Sheldon Adelson credit for breaking into profitable markets.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
gordonm888
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
• Posts: 2373
October 30th, 2018 at 1:49:56 PM permalink
Quote: AnteResearch

Table Games Win Per Unit Per Day - And here's the casinos' table wins per day. Check out the Macau casinos' win per table versus the U.S. casinos'!
Venetian Macao \$14,975
Sands Cotai Central \$12,077
Parisian Macao 12,634
Plaza Macao and Four Seasons \$16,933
Sands Macau \$8,521
Marina Bay Sands \$9,184
Las Vegas Operations \$3,489
Sands Bethlehem \$3,066

On any given day, particularly weekdays, there may be a number of tables in a casino that are not used. So are the above 'table wins' only for tables that were open during the day or are they averaged across all tables?
So many better men, a few of them friends, were dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on, and so did I.