Unemployment for Pro gamblers
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In general, I agree with Mike. When someone choose to be self employed in any form, unemployment, vacations, sick days, saving for retirement are all part of the deal. The self employed takes on that responsibility. But this pandemic shutdown is a very unusual situation. By order of the government, casinos (and other business) were shut down. So anyone that makes their living, self employed style is shutdown....ordered shutdown. Taxi and uber drivers, People that may drive vans for casinos, various other positions, including casino hosts depending on the casino and how the job is structured may be contracted or self employed type arrangement. Lawmakers recognized that all these type of people in all kind of industries are out of work, due to no fault of there own and that is why they temporarily expanded unemployment eligibility,
As a professional gambler, I should and have qualified and have no problem accepting unemployment compensation while casino doors are locked. I know some of my fellow AP' have a differing opinion, so I welcome everyone's opinion first and later I will get into my experience going through this process. Nevada has been about the worst state in dealing with these expanded eligibility rules.
Payroll Protection Program is/was available to anyone who self-employed who paid themselves a salary (maybe even if you didn't). There is also Pandemic Unemployment Assistance available to people that people can receive even if they weren't paying into Unemployment Insurance.
Quote: kewljPandemic unemployment assistance> Is that the extra $600 that people getting unemployment get?
PUA is basically an expansion of unemployment to allow self-employed, part-timers, independent contractors, etc. in. Basically, anybody that 'works' but doesn't pay unemployment insurance (or whatever it's referred to as in your area).
The extra 600$ was part of the same CARES Act package, but isn't the same.
(Disclaimer: My legal employment falls into the category of people covered by PUA.)
Quote: VenthusPUA is basically an expansion of unemployment to allow self-employed, part-timers, independent contractors, etc. in. Basically, anybody that 'works' but doesn't pay unemployment insurance (or whatever it's referred to as in your area).
The extra 600$ was part of the same CARES Act package, but isn't the same.
(Disclaimer: My legal employment falls into the category of people covered by PUA.)
Ok, so PUA is the official terminology of the eligibility being changed to include people like me, self employed.
I stopped playing a bout a week before official shutdown and wasn't expecting to be eligible for anything. But, the Cares act and these expanded unemployment eligibility and funds are just as much about stimulus as anything else. So if the lawmakers decides that is what they are doing I have no problem taking it.
so anyway, I will share my experience shortly. I guess the other AP's don't want to talk about this, maybe don't want to admit they applied. That is fine.
Quote: kewljOk, so PUA is the official terminology of the eligibility being changed to include people like me, self employed.
For the purposes of PUA eligibility, I think the question being debated is whether or not 'professional gambler' is classified as employment. (To which my casual, not-a-lawyer, not-personally-at-stake, not-too-much-thought opinion is: "If you put that on your tax forms and pay taxes on it, then why not.")
But even then, the system is erratic. I caught up with a few people I know who are also in the PUA-bucket over the weekend and the tally is: 2-rejected-after-appeal, 1-accepted-after-appeal, 1-accepted. One of the rejected-after-appeals should've gotten approved with no problem, and he claimed that he filed together with two of his coworkers who both got approved. The one that got accepted straight up, frankly, probably shouldn't've.
Several days later I received my unemployment debit card. No information on anything just a card. So I went back online logged into my account and it said my claim was approved. No mention of when or how much money I would get. I thought it unusual, but thought I was all set.
But I was wrong. That 'approval" really meant nothing. For the next 7 weeks I kept reading about the problems Nevada was having as they weren't set up to deal with the self employment or gig claims. I assume no state was. So they kept promising a date that the system would be able to handle these self employment claims. Each time, the system crashed and we got no where. Finally 2 weeks ago, I was able to go to my account, fill out some info, download my tax paperwork and file claims for each of the back weeks dating back to March 31 when I first applied. And each week after that I have been able to file for that additional week. Totaling 9 back weeks at weekly max amount of just over $400 and the extra $600 per week.
So Today, I got about half of the money I was expecting. At first I thought maybe the extra $600 wasn't included, but upon further look it is. I got paid for 4 weeks. I guess they are doing it in parts. I also filed for the new week today, my 10th, which will be my last if the casinos open on schedule this week. While I don't agree that self employed should qualify for unemployment under normal circumstances, I don't feel bad about accepting it, since they amended the eligibility. I mean the casinos, like every other business were closed by order of the government. Just one guys opinion and experience.
Quote: SOOPOOYou deserve it, if anyone actually deserves it. You do it full time, with no other gainful employment. Feel bad for a guy who works 40hr/week at $15 an hour, and AP's 20 hours a week at let's say, $30 an hour. He will I'm guessing be very unlikely to claim 'unemployment', even though half his income is gone. So he will have to make due on the $600 a week. A guy who was working part time, say 20 hours a week at $15 an hour, if now unemployed, will be getting around $150 from the state and $600 from the feds for $750 a week! Makes sense, doesn't it?
I get what the extra $600 is about, but it was very poorly done. Normally unemployment pays a claimant just about half what they were making at their job. It is really supposed to just provide something until they find a new job. So they wanted to make it so people were made "full" as they called it, jot the same amount they would at their job because of these unusual circumstances.
So they should have just done it that way. Each persons amount should have been based on their income right up to 100% of what they made at their job. Doing it the way they did, means some people get significantly more not working then they did working. That really becomes political.
One other thing I learned going through this process of unemployment for the first time in my life. They take taxes out of unemployment compensation. not saying that seems right or wrong, just surprised me. I guess there is no avoiding the Tax man on anything. lol
https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/blog/how-much-money-can-you-make-gambling-professionally/
Quote: ChumpChangeThe Average Amount of Money that Professional Gamblers Make
https://www.legitgamblingsites.com/blog/how-much-money-can-you-make-gambling-professionally/
Some of the info seems about right to me. We wont get into the tipping part....that is another discussion. lol
But here is where that formula gets into trouble. It's the 40 hours a week part. Gambling for a living is not like a 40 hour a week job. You just can't figure it that way.
Quote: kewljFinally 2 weeks ago, I was able to go to my account, fill out some info, download my tax paperwork and file claims for each of the back weeks dating back to March 31 when I first applied. And each week after that I have been able to file for that additional week. Totaling 9 back weeks at weekly max amount of just over $400 and the extra $600 per week.
So Today, I got about half of the money I was expecting. At first I thought maybe the extra $600 wasn't included, but upon further look it is. I got paid for 4 weeks. I guess they are doing it in parts.
That's weird.
Unemployment under PUA officially began on January 27, 2020 and extends through the end of the year, though, depending on your state, I believe may have a maximum of 39 weeks. The extra 600$ should be valid from the beginning of April to the end of July (approximately; some fuzziness here depending on how weeks are calculated).
I don't know how it's calculated in NV, but in CA, it's done in 2-week clusters, paid a week after, so you file for 1-14, get paid on 21. Back payments all went through at once, in a giant batch. If you're not getting it, you might want to go poke at them.
Also, for any other benefits you may or may not be receiving, I was told the 600$ counts as regular income for everything, unlike the 1200$ everybody should've received by now.
But here is where that formula gets into trouble. It's the 40 hours a week part. Gambling for a living is not like a 40 hour a week job. You just can't figure it that way.
Well....at least not for what I do....blackjack play. Maybe for some of the other stuff, like machine play or sportsbetting (although I don't see how)[
Quote: VenthusThat's weird.
Unemployment under PUA officially began on January 27, 2020 and extends through the end of the year, though, depending on your state, I believe may have a maximum of 39 weeks. The extra 600$ should be valid from the beginning of April to the end of July (approximately; some fuzziness here depending on how weeks are calculated).
I don't know how it's calculated in NV, but in CA, it's done in 2-week clusters, paid a week after, so you file for 1-14, get paid on 21. Back payments all went through at once, in a giant batch. If you're not getting it, you might want to go poke at them.
Also, for any other benefits you may or may not be receiving, I was told the 600$ counts as regular income for everything, unlike the 1200$ everybody should've received by now.
Nevada is weekly. the week ends on Saturday. You file your claim on Sunday or anytime after and are supposed to get your money on the card on saturday, although I am not on or close to that schedule so far. lol
Last week I was discussing the unemployment process with a guy in my building. He is self employed and was going through the same process as myself. I thought he might be an AP as there are several in our building plus a number of poker players. So I asked him what he did. He told me he was a street performer. lol! ??? I didn't ask exactly in what form, but I did ask how he was going to qualify for unemployment and he said he has several years of Tax records proving that is what he does for a living. Who knew??!? I guess under these conditions, if he pays taxes and has the records to prove it, I guess he should qualify. What was that Don King saying "Only in America!" lol
I have no freaking idea what kind of money these people make, but based that he lives in my building, I am guessing more than I would have thought.
You will be getting a combination of$600 per week of federal money plus some weekly state money which could be $181 or more.
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj look at your account info on the DETR website and you'll see exactly what you were paid for and what's due.
You will be getting a combination of$600 per week of federal money plus some weekly state money which could be $181 or more.
yes, thank you Alan. Getting through to DETR and to your account is often easier said than done. lol
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj look at your account info on the DETR website and you'll see exactly what you were paid for and what's due.
You will be getting a combination of$600 per week of federal money plus some weekly state money which could be $181 or more.
Does that site show the federal disbursement? When I lookat The Nevada Unemployment site it only shows state disbursements. I don;tknow where to go to see the federal disbursements.
Quote: DRichDoes that site show the federal disbursement? When I lookat The Nevada Unemployment site it only shows state disbursements. I don;tknow where to go to see the federal disbursements.
Yes. It shows both the state and federal money. It's there on the same page in the chart of weekly payments.
In Canada, we get C$2000/4 weeks. You got to make C$5000 in 2019 and lost part/full income due to the virus. Or have to stay home caring for kids/someone. It is the same reason. Hope all will be good soon. My plan for the future is all screwed. Now I just sit tight and hope for the best.
FPUC - Federal program that pays $600 a week.
I'll be getting $170-$380 PUA and then $600 FPUC. My state is supposed to base PUA off 1% of income but I've heard mixed results in other states.
As an AP, I was never expecting the PUA part when I applied, just the FPUC.
Choo, choo, all aboard the gravy train!
Quote: SOOPOOTo me, super interesting part about the APs and UI, is when do you no longer qualify? Let's say all the casinos reopen today, but because they know they will be limited to half capacity they have rule changes that make it impossible, or at least lower EV, for APs to make a living. Can you, as an AP, say that you are still unemployed, even with all casinos open?
You are asked if you looked for employment. Didn't specify within your field.
If you found a job at McDonald's you are supposed to end the unemployment
I think this is why the AP's on here were somewhat silent and turned off by it.
Remember most of us have a "working bankroll" in cash which can hold us over till we get back our casino gigs. We don't want to start working just anywhere
Quote: SOOPOOTo me, super interesting part about the APs and UI, is when do you no longer qualify? Let's say all the casinos reopen today, but because they know they will be limited to half capacity they have rule changes that make it impossible, or at least lower EV, for APs to make a living. Can you, as an AP, say that you are still unemployed, even with all casinos open?
And also, if you do return to the casino and begin your AP work, how does unemployment become aware of it? I guess it’s just on the honor system that people will stop collecting.
For those called back to a W2 type job, the employer is supposed to notify the unemployment office. Or notify them that they called an employee back to their job and the employee declined.
While casinos are reopening YOUR game for self employment may not be available.
Quote: michael99000And also, if you do return to the casino and begin your AP work, how does unemployment become aware of it? I guess it’s just on the honor system that people will stop collecting.
For those called back to a W2 type job, the employer is supposed to notify the unemployment office. Or notify them that they called an employee back to their job and the employee declined.
It starts out as the honor system. If you are answering fraudulently, you are committing a crime.
My wife is a dentist. I do wonder if she is theoretically supposed to take the Burger King job? There are MANY of those available. It seems reasonable, at least to me, that she looks for only dentist jobs. Wife's daughter's boyfriend is on layoff from Panera, now making $300 a week from NYS and $600 a week from the Feds. So $900 unemployed as opposed to $600 . I am guessing he only considers a return to his original job acceptable. Unless forced, do you think he'll take the $600 a week BK job instead of his $900 a week sit at home and drink beer gig?
I mean, seriously, he is making the equivalent of $45k a year to do NOTHING.
To me this opportunity to collect unemployment, based on expanded eligibility, was about the one time, highly unusual circumstance that the government shutdown all casinos. I and many other people in all fields had no choice in the matter, so I appreciate lawmakers recognizing that and expanding eligibility for this crisis. The minute casinos open, this unusual circumstance is over for me.
Also, I am mostly a blackjack card counter AP, with a small amount of supplementary play. So what if I go back tomorrow and there are no more blackjack card counting opportunities? Well that is on me. I mean what if all the card counting blackjack opportunities had suddenly dried up 6 months ago? I wouldn't have been able to collect unemployment. I would have either had to adapt or go into another line of work. When the casinos re-open, which they are for me, tomorrow, this opportunity ends and we go back to I as a self employed once again taking on that responsibility.
It also actively rejects any kind of input that says "I worked, but didn't and don't expect to get paid for it."
Secondly, the law was written by Cingress so you did not have to provide proof that you looked for a job.
There was a reason for this.
Congress just wanted to pump out money, so they did it fast and easy.
The question now is if they will do it again. Remember the $600 / week was a maximum of only 13 weeks. That's peanuts.
Quote: AlanMendelsonFirst, I'm not sure all states allow pro gamblers to claim these special unemployment benefits, but Nevada did.
I don't know why you think that? This bill is supposed to cover gig workers, self employed, self contractors...period. Let's take it out of the pro gambler example and use Uber/lift driver. Supposed to be eligible and covered. So if an Uber driver in California was eligible and an Uber driver in Kansas was not that wouldn't make sense.
Now one of my early thoughts was that as a professional player living in Nevada, I would be at an advantage over say a pro player living in say North Dakota, simply because Nevada should be more familiar with the concept of professional gamblers. I could just see the guy in North Dakota filing as a professional Gambler and the state unemployment office responding "what now?"
So I thought Nevada being the unofficial home of casinos and gambling would be an advantage in claims moving through smoothly. Turns out that was backwards as Nevada seemed to be about the absolute worst at processing these claims. Of course that wasn't specific to pro gamblers. Nevada couldn't seem to get their act together on any of the self employment, "gig" claims.
I have the impression that the posters here are pretty well off. So government hand out in this dire and dim situation is seen as some kind of waste. Remember, the reason for the government act is to calm everybody down.
Is there any pro gambler on this forum living outside of Nevada who got unemployment?
Quote: AlanMendelsonKewlj rather than guess, did you happen to ask New Jersey or Pennsylvania if they covered gamblers?
No Alan, I didn't check New Jersey or Pennsylvania, or Alabama, or Idaho, or anywhere else. Why would I? I live in Nevada. My financial guy contacted me early on, like the day after the bills was passed and told me I should qualify. I didn't even have time, nor was planning on asking him.
If you checked those places tell us what you found.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Is there any pro gambler on this forum living outside of Nevada who got unemployment?
Yeah, you probably aren't going to get a good answer or sample size to that question, either involving the AP's here in Vegas and on this site, or living outside of Vegas. The pro gambler crowd is a weird group. They don't like to admit to anything, much less that they filed for unemployment. As if that is some sign of weakness or lack of success or achievement as an AP. I don't feel that way.
The government shut down casinos. They expanded eligibility to cover self employed people making a living off other industries. That is me, just the same as the Uber driver who has no customers because all business were shut down. Just the same as anyone else unable to make a living because the government shut down businesses. I am not embarrassed, nor feel bad about collecting unemployment under these circumstances. Had they not expanded eligibility to include people like me I wouldn't have cried about it, but I think and am impressed the government did the right thing. You close almost all businesses, how are people supposed to make a living, whether directly employed or self employed, contractors, "gig" workers that need those related businesses to make a living.
The reason other states might not have approved it is that the initial law also blocked aid to casinos, individuals with a large percentage of income from gambling, and sex workers.
The rules on casinos were later modified.
I was surprised that the Las Vegas Review Journal got the statement from the state that pro gamblers would be covered.
Based on the other "industries" that were blocked consider it a gift.
Quote: AlanMendelsonThe reason other states might not have approved it is that the initial law also blocked aid to casinos, individuals with a large percentage of income from gambling, and sex workers.
Did sex workers anywhere in the country that it was legal get to collect PUA? (Or UI, if they're on payroll. Which... sounds weird.)
In other news, I came across a rather amusing article talking about how a lot of places were sold out of Sexy Nurse costumes because they were using it as an excuse to test of they had a fever... and kick them out if they were.
Quote: AlanMendelson
Based on the other "industries" that were blocked consider it a gift.
Well, I have only gotten 4 weeks so far. But I expect the rest is coming.
You hate that I got unemployment don't you Alan? lol. And I don't mean me specifically. I don't think you hate me, but from discussions elsewhere, you have never been real fond of AP's in general let alone someone making a living via AP, so it irks you that someone LIKE me is getting unemployment doesn't it? be honest.
Now how is it that YOU are getting unemployment? I suppose you don't want to talk about that? lol. I guess you are self employed but how is it that your business is effected?
Quote: speedycrapFor unemployment insurance. An unemployed NASA engineer does not have to look for work at Burger King as a dish washer. If that NASA engineer refused work as an engineer at SpaceX, then the UI will stop.
I have the impression that the posters here are pretty well off. So government hand out in this dire and dim situation is seen as some kind of waste. Remember, the reason for the government act is to calm everybody down.
In the same way someone who were in a high wage line of work don’t have to look for work at Burger King to get unemployment, the Burger King worker can apply for NASA engineer jobs they know they’re unqualified for for the length they’re eligible for unemployment. Personally I generally think people should be required to do a minimum of 10-15 hrs a week of volunteer work in order to collect unemployment or welfare. Workfare.
Perhaps an exception for a national emergency, but otherwise I also think maximum unemployment regardless of previous salary should be somewhere around the wages of a minimum wage full time worker in the state providing it, if people can’t imagine paying their bills for a short period of of time on that should be a wake up call to do one of the following: either save more of an emergency fund, live a more sustainable lifestyle rather, or help provide more insight into the plight of less fortunate individuals.
Quote: mcallister3200In the same way someone who were in a high wage line of work don’t have to look for work at Burger King to get unemployment, the Burger King worker can apply for NASA engineer jobs they know they’re unqualified for for the length they’re eligible for unemployment. Personally I generally think people should be required to do a minimum of 10-15 hrs a week of volunteer work in order to collect unemployment or welfare. Workfare.
Perhaps an exception for a national emergency, but otherwise I also think maximum unemployment regardless of previous salary should be somewhere around the wages of a minimum wage full time worker in the state providing it, if people can’t imagine paying their bills for a short period of of time on that should be a wake up call to do one of the following: either save more of an emergency fund, live a more sustainable lifestyle rather, or help provide more insight into the plight of less fortunate individuals.
But unemployment is a percentage of a person's paycheck correct?
Would it not be unfair for a higher wage earners to pay a higher percentage of their check only to receive minimum wage when unemployed?
Quote: VenthusDid sex workers anywhere in the country that it was legal get to collect PUA? (Or UI, if they're on payroll. Which... sounds weird.)
In other news, I came across a rather amusing article talking about how a lot of places were sold out of Sexy Nurse costumes because they were using it as an excuse to test of they had a fever... and kick them out if they were.
The law specifically blocked sex workers.
Quote: darkozBut unemployment is a percentage of a person's paycheck correct?
Would it not be unfair for a higher wage earners to pay a higher percentage of their check only to receive minimum wage when unemployed?
Don't confuse regular unemployment insurance with the COVID-19 plan. The $600 figure was just a number picked out of thin air to provide spending.
$600 a week was a fortune in Alabama and it only paid for a parking spot in San Francisco.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDon't confuse regular unemployment insurance with the COVID-19 plan. The $600 figure was just a number picked out of thin air to provide spending.
$600 a week was a fortune in Alabama and it only paid for a parking spot in San Francisco.
I understand
I was reacting to McAllister saying how he felt in general about people collecting unemployment.
Quote: darkozBut unemployment is a percentage of a person's paycheck correct?
Would it not be unfair for a higher wage earners to pay a higher percentage of their check only to receive minimum wage when unemployed?
Perhaps but I think under the scenario I’m suggesting much less unemployment taxes/insurance would be collected beforehand in the first place.
Quote: mcallister3200In the same way someone who were in a high wage line of work don’t have to look for work at Burger King to get unemployment, the Burger King worker can apply for NASA engineer jobs they know they’re unqualified for for the length they’re eligible for unemployment. Personally I generally think people should be required to do a minimum of 10-15 hrs a week of volunteer work in order to collect unemployment or welfare. Workfare.
Perhaps an exception for a national emergency, but otherwise I also think maximum unemployment regardless of previous salary should be somewhere around the wages of a minimum wage full time worker in the state providing it, if people can’t imagine paying their bills for a short period of of time on that should be a wake up call to do one of the following: either save more of an emergency fund, live a more sustainable lifestyle rather, or help provide more insight into the plight of less fortunate individuals.
I love both of your ideas. The 15 hours a week of volunteer work should not be too onerous to interfere with your job interviews, and other attempts to regain gainful employment.
I also strongly agree with a very low pay for being unemployed. There should NEVER be an advantage to being unemployed over being employed. I think unemployment pay should just be a true stopgap, paying for only the bare necessities. NY State does limit it to $504 a week, which I think is a reasonable number. It is around what a full time min wage worker makes in NY State.
As far as ams chiding Trump on signing it, he had input into it, but it is an equal part Pelosi, McConnell, and Trump. None of the 3 were willing to take the strong but unpopular position that it was just too much of a foolish giveaway; that it was put together with very little thought. I am disappointed in all 3 of them.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: VenthusDid sex workers anywhere in the country that it was legal get to collect PUA? (Or UI, if they're on payroll. Which... sounds weird.)
In other news, I came across a rather amusing article talking about how a lot of places were sold out of Sexy Nurse costumes because they were using it as an excuse to test of they had a fever... and kick them out if they were.
The law specifically blocked sex workers.
They always get screwed.
