Romes
Romes
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
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January 2nd, 2017 at 1:18:32 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

Noticed that, did you? Heh.

=)

Quote: MathExtremist

I partly agree. Revenue growth makes sense for a product or service business that can sensibly grow, but the four walls of a casino tend to prevent runaway growth -- you can't just hold an extra 1000 people every day, you can't spread 100 more blackjack games, you can't just triple the table limits, etc. There's no way to rapidly scale revenue the way a software company can.

So on the one hand, slow revenue growth is expected at a land-based casino. But the problem is that a land-based casino is a business that, like any other business, has employees. And employees need raises, not only to cover inflation, but to cover their own career trajectories. If you don't hire or fire anyone for three years, you'd better be paying those employees more money at the end than at the beginning because they all have three more years of experience. That's a cost growth that, if not offset by revenue growth, reduces your margins. The problem is that casinos aren't like McDonalds -- you don't go to work at a casino thinking it's just temporary (at least, I don't think you do), so a casino owner can't get away with just having a revolving door of staffers and keep costs the same all the time.

If I owned a casino, I'd put all my senior managers on profit sharing plans and aim for revenue/cost stability, not significant profit growth. Growing profits wildly in a land-based casino means either significant revenue increase or significant cost decrease, both of which are likely to harm the player experience if you haven't changed something fundamental about the gaming products.

I agree with everything you stated. I guess in my vision of the "raise the profits" that was in directly relation to keep the margins raising. Still though, in any job there is a CAP. If you're a dealer and you have 10 years experience and make X per hour, just because you have 20 years experience doesn't mean you'll make 2X per hour, and 40 years doesn't get your 4X per hour. There's a cap, otherwise a regular old dealer would be making as much (or more) than the CEO. There's only so much they can make in their respective jobs. Likewise I think there's only so much revenue that can be brought in by the casino on a yearly basis... a "CAP" in its own right. Sure, they can focus their efforts on attracting more business from other competitors, but this is a cost to them and they're more interested in passing the cost of their inflation needs on to the consumer.

I don't disagree companies need to have some kind of growth to keep up with certain things (such as employee wages) but the way they go about doing it, such as passing the cost along to the consumer is surely something to be frustrated and upset with, which is why we see threads like this pop up and tons and tons of people start boycotting Vegas altogether. That was my point in the first post, was that eventually screwing the customer enough times will result in shooting your own business in the foot... So I just don't get why businesses do it. The best I can get is they're too stupid/ignorant about this years profits to think about the next 20 years profits. Would you like to have a business that makes $1 million per year for 5 years, or would you like to have one that makes $100,000 per year for 100 years? Most shareholders would take the immediate payouts due to their shaky trust in the markets. This fear leads to the yearly demands and the whole process of screwing the customer, which as I keep blabbing and reiterating will ironically end up screwing them.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
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January 2nd, 2017 at 1:41:15 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

The whole point of being able to track a player means figuring out what he's worth to the property, not just to the casino.

NO!! Only what he is worth to the CASINO. Room, food, bars, movies, spas, even teen-age entertainment centers can be tallied up, but the casino is what is supposed to be the money maker, not the nightclubs. Of course, that is the "old" Vegas, but . . .

Benny Binion paid a florist a monthly fee for one of his players who filched a flower each morning and played craps in diplomatic day dress. Its action in the casino that matters. I once taught someone to play craps and somehow she took naturally to capping bets and past-posting. So I had to avoid her being embarrassed by tipping the crew everytime I saw her doing this stuff. The box was happy to have me handle the situation in this manner. No one spoke to her, but the crew was very happy with her play.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 2nd, 2017 at 1:52:56 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

So I just don't get why businesses do it. The best I can get is they're too stupid/ignorant about this years profits to think about the next 20 years profits. Would you like to have a business that makes $1 million per year for 5 years, or would you like to have one that makes $100,000 per year for 100 years? Most shareholders would take the immediate payouts due to their shaky trust in the markets. This fear leads to the yearly demands and the whole process of screwing the customer, which as I keep blabbing and reiterating will ironically end up screwing them.

Well, with your particular numbers you're clearly better off with $1M for 5 years. Time value of money is important -- the annualized inflation rate over the past 100 years is about 3.18% (or 22.9x over 100 years). If that holds going forward, the $100k you'd earn in year 100 is worth less than $4400 today.

Point is, planning 20 years out rarely makes sense. Planning 3 or 5 does, but even that doesn't matter if you can't make it the next 12 months. For example, Twitter won't be Twitter in the next 3 years. It will either get bought by someone or fold altogether, because you simply can't keep losing $100M/quarter and expect investors to keep giving you more money to throw away.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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January 2nd, 2017 at 1:59:15 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff



Fake gambling to get drinks? Sure it goes on. Casino personnel are always observant. Always. And they see Everything. Even that waitress knows to keep her eyes open because if she sees you monkeying with a machine she gets a bonus for reporting it. You want to pretend to put bets on the bubble craps machine, go ahead but you won't be foolin' nobody for long.

personally im not fugal or patient enough to do that.

Please eplain this bonus thing you are talking about for turning people in? I have not hear if this. My GF has been a cocktail waitress for 2 different places. She hasn't heard of this bonus you talk of. She didn't care if people were gambling or not if they ordered a drink she brand it to them (bad tippers and all). She said old people were the worst tippers and many didn't tip at all.

Even if they did have some kinda narc bonus I think they would gladly keep quiet if you were tipping well. I never seen a cocktail waitress upset with $2.

I seriously doubt for the most part anyone reasonably smart would get caught if they were to fake play to get drinks. Hell, just put a $20 in as you order.

I have no doubt someone looking like they are homeless or someone going in day after day would probably get noticed. Or if a bunch of youngster I have no doubt I could get away with it for 8 hours easy. I have been just standing next to machines or sitting and obviously not playing and the cocktail waitress will bring me drinks. There are some places that seem to be more adamant about you playing, but that's nothing a $20 in the machine and a one cent bet won't take care of. If someone's life has come down to playing penny machines all day just to get free drinks, they got bigger problems.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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January 2nd, 2017 at 4:41:12 PM permalink
Quote: Boz

Sugerhouse?



Ive been there a couple of times. Sure seems to fit the mold! Do you play there? What has your experience been?
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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January 2nd, 2017 at 5:22:21 PM permalink
I do not like the way they are starting to police drinks and parking! However it is still very easy to go around to 5 cocktail stations and fake play and order a drink. If you don't want to do that you just pre-toke. Give the girl 2 or 3 dollars for whatever you want and you'll be fine. You want to only tip a buck? Stick money in the machine and wait. Tip a buck and move on. Honestly I have never had a problem having 6 doubles and 3 beer backs when I drank. My problem recently if I am at a bar and I am playing over 5000 coin in per hour and I pass off a beer to someone who isn't playing. I have had some good problems with that but I show them. I just never tip again to that bartender and I go to some other station or bar and order all I want and bring them back. Now if I really feel like being a prick I just order a beer and stiff that bartender, go to the bathroom and dump it out and come back and order another. If I'm really pissed off... I just spill the beer all over the bar and machines by accident of course! Oh I am sorry Bartender... Could you clean this up for me?? I know, I know... I'm an A**hole!

If you are going to do something like this after they give you slack, you have to tell the manager or bartender this: "Oh you guys want to play hardball huh? Ok... I can play hardball too!!"
CasinoKiller
CasinoKiller
Joined: Jul 22, 2016
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January 2nd, 2017 at 7:27:09 PM permalink
What's even worse is the Wynn dosent comp drinks at all at the video poker bar. I'm truly disgusted at how cheap (but really the opposite) strip casinos can be. 6:5 crapjack everywhere, unreal VP pay tables, $24 a drink in the club, resort fees parking fees etc. it's disgusting situation for the non-AP/high roller...
What goes around always comes back around
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 2nd, 2017 at 7:57:17 PM permalink
Quote: CasinoKiller

What's even worse is the Wynn dosent comp drinks at all at the video poker bar. I'm truly disgusted at how cheap (but really the opposite) strip casinos can be. 6:5 crapjack everywhere, unreal VP pay tables, $24 a drink in the club, resort fees parking fees etc. it's disgusting situation for the non-AP/high roller...

The non-AP high roller makes $100 in passive income between the time he checks in and the time he gets to the gaming tables and doesn't care about spending $25 on a drink. The non-AP high roller is willing to pay the fees at the Wynn -- which to him are negligible -- to separate himself from the gamblers who think the fees at the Wynn are exorbitant.

There's a noticeable difference in the players around a $5 craps table and a $25 craps table. Wynn wants that for the entire property. The prices are high because the property is intended to be exclusive, literally by excluding those who can't afford it.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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January 2nd, 2017 at 8:20:52 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

There's a noticeable difference in the players around a $5 craps table and a $25 craps table. Wynn wants that for the entire property. The prices are high because the property is intended to be exclusive, literally by excluding those who can't afford it.



This is true.... and why I love The Wynne so much!
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
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January 2nd, 2017 at 10:12:45 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

The non-AP high roller makes $100 in passive income between the time he checks in and the time he gets to the gaming tables and doesn't care about spending $25 on a drink. The non-AP high roller is willing to pay the fees at the Wynn -- which to him are negligible -- to separate himself from the gamblers who think the fees at the Wynn are exorbitant.

There's a noticeable difference in the players around a $5 craps table and a $25 craps table. Wynn wants that for the entire property. The prices are high because the property is intended to be exclusive, literally by excluding those who can't afford it.



Bunch a bunk... go play low limit poker and order all the free drinks you want at your precious Wynn!

So this smart AP makes a C Note by just being a Smart AP and he justifies paying 25 dollars for a .50 cent drink because he made an easy C note?? BS ... I know a lot of millionaire APs and I see them credit hustle nickels left in the machine every time and they usually bring their own water to the machine/table. They ain't paying no 25 dollars for a Cubra Libra!

EDIT: If you really want free drinks at the Wynn you can get on a long list at the poker room and sit at an open table and order. Tip decent at least and you don't even have to bother with the list.
Last edited by: monet0412 on Jan 3, 2017

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