WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
Joined: May 20, 2011
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January 2nd, 2017 at 8:41:38 AM permalink
If you play craps at any of the urban cities, you will notice certain people hanging around the tables all day, while playing 5 bucks here and there, so they can drink all day for free. It is horrible.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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January 2nd, 2017 at 9:28:48 AM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

It is horrible.

We all have different views on what is horrible.

The MBAs think bartenders letting people have free drinks all night and taking the money as tips instead of drink prices is horrible. All ticket systems annoy everyone, but the target is the bartender.

In a place where Swells go Strutting around luxuriating in their Upscaleness, the prices may beas inflated as the egos, but the ticket system is still aimed at ending the practice of a customer keeping the bar tender's tip jar happy rather than the MBAs happy by getting the money into the cash register.

Its often the same way with waitresses, be flirty enough and the guys will tip the waitresses rather than buying booze. No need for a casino for this to happen.

We all hate the tiny plastic cup, the ice cubes, the watered-down concoctions, the Tray-Lizard's delay and refusal to immediately provide us with her phone number. We alll have to deal with it, though. Back when the sevens place was known as Terrible's I actually felt embarrassed for the poor waitress who brought me such a teensy cup of orange-flavored water.

Casinos are more generous with slot machine players because a 12 percent slot is better than some piker doing an occasional red chip on the 1.414 percent pass line, yet casinos institute drink monitoring on slots too. Oh, sure they call it a drink ordering system and say it speeds the process by making CWs only deliver rather than take orders for drinks as well, but no matter what you call it, its a drink monitoring system and its done solely to please the MBAs.

Are there ways to get around such things? Sure, play at the Venetian where waitresses will bring you nice large drinks and won't be stingy. Know any other casinos where waitresses will bring you three bottles of water all at once? Or two glasses of orange juice, large ones?

The Cosmo has always been a strange mix of contradictory policies even before it opened. Last I heard its not really a gambling joint, just a chandeliered art gallery for the swells to strut in. Well, okay... enough hyperpole for the day.

Fake gambling to get drinks? Sure it goes on. Casino personnel are always observant. Always. And they see Everything. Even that waitress knows to keep her eyes open because if she sees you monkeying with a machine she gets a bonus for reporting it. You want to pretend to put bets on the bubble craps machine, go ahead but you won't be foolin' nobody for long.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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CasinoKiller
January 2nd, 2017 at 9:56:47 AM permalink
Back when the mob ran Vegas, the mob rewarded their employees and did not screw them, but treated them fairly. Way back in antiquity when there were change girls in Vegas, one of them reported a man was standing unusually close to a slot machine and he was winning. That change girl got a certificate, a handshake and a check for ten thousand dollars. Vegas rewarded alert and loyal employees.

Now, Vegas is nothing but MBAs squeezing employees, the public, everyone. Benny Binion never served a watered-down drink in his life. Now we have some Swiss Bank owned Cosmo squeezing pennies in their VP bar. How loyal will that bar tender be if he sees something or over hears some scam?
Boz
Boz
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January 2nd, 2017 at 10:02:34 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff



The Cosmo has always been a strange mix of contradictory policies even before it opened. Last I heard its not really a gambling joint, just a chandeliered art gallery for the swells to strut in. Well, okay... enough hyperpole for the day.




I have mixed feelings on this issue because I have seen it both ways. Not as a casino owner but as a bar and business owner. Most of us hate change and see it as a money grab but there also have had to be abuse to make them invest in the changes. Maybe some bean counter did the math, but at this point anyone playing a steady amount is going to have no issue getting drinks. Everything changes in Vegas and this is just another one of them. And there is always the option of playing elsewhere. Ellis island still has cheap drinks and they never let your glass get empty playing slow VP while watching the game and tipping 1-2-1-2. Hell your a high roller at that point to the bartenders.

As for the Cosmo, as a player there I have seen my offers go up in the past year for the same level of play. Seems like the new ownership group realized that were not maximizing the asset of the casino.

I will there in the very near future and will probably watch at least one game at the book and will see how fast or slow it works.
I will say if you like Craft beer and play VP, the guys at TAG in the Linq serve some high quality comp brews quickly.
WatchMeWin
WatchMeWin
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January 2nd, 2017 at 11:04:40 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

We all have different views on what is horrible.



Actually, my meaning of the word horrible was not regarding people scamming free drinks (more power to them).. It was regarding the people that crowd the craps tables slowing up the game and causing issues, while not even playing. Bad energy! Stay away.
'Winners hit n run... Losers stick around'
Boz
Boz
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January 2nd, 2017 at 12:04:28 PM permalink
Quote: WatchMeWin

If you play craps at any of the urban cities, you will notice certain people hanging around the tables all day, while playing 5 bucks here and there, so they can drink all day for free. It is horrible.



Sugerhouse?
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 2nd, 2017 at 12:20:17 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Now, Vegas is nothing but MBAs squeezing employees, the public, everyone. Benny Binion never served a watered-down drink in his life. Now we have some Swiss Bank owned Cosmo squeezing pennies in their VP bar. How loyal will that bar tender be if he sees something or over hears some scam?

The problem with the bean-counting approach is that it can either be localized and misused, or globalized. If someone who's paying full fare on their rooms and meals at the Cosmo wants to feel like he's scamming the system and getting cheap drinks by not gambling much, but he comes back every 3 months and keeps paying full fare on the rooms and meals -- let him have the free drinks! The whole point of being able to track a player means figuring out what he's worth to the property, not just to the casino. Honestly, if I were running a casino and I knew some 40-something guy was counting at a $15 table -- but he brought his wife and kids and they've already eaten 4 meals, seen 2 shows, visited the spa, and the wife has dropped $100 on slots, then count all you want, Sir. He'll want to come back, the family will want to come back, and my property will be more successful. Those are *exactly* the kind of guests I'd want, perhaps second only to the same family except with a dad who just shoots dice instead.

Now if it's just some local AP who's trying to spread $25-2x$250, playing uncarded, that's a different story. If someone has an actual negative value to my property, including the time/effort to get them gone, then I'll get them gone.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
djatc
djatc
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January 2nd, 2017 at 12:29:33 PM permalink
What a bad beat for the visitors. Resort fees, paid parking, stingy comping requirements for drinks, horrible paybacks on machines, etc. I don't even know why people come out here anymore. Stay home and go to your local casino.

On the other hand, keep coming here and filling the casino's coffers. We can AP some of that money :)
"Man Babes" #AxelFabulous
Romes
Romes
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January 2nd, 2017 at 12:37:45 PM permalink
Quote: MathExtremist

...Now if it's just some local AP who's trying to spread $25-2x$250, playing uncarded, that's a different story. If someone has an actual negative value to my property, including the time/effort to get them gone, then I'll get them gone.

2x$250 seems like an oddly specific spread =).

All of this is just further proof of evolution, and the fact that ideas/businesses can evolve too. While I don't agree with it, I learned a while ago business that charge $10 for a product with 100 customers could make more money by charging $20 for the product knowing they'll lose 30% of their customers by pissing them off about the rate hikes in the process... after all 10*100 = 1,000, where as 20*70 = 1,400... 40% growth Mr. Bossman! The reason I don't agree with it is branding. People will hate your business and tell others about how they hate it and even if you have a monopoly (like time warner) eventually you'll piss off enough people that it will crumble before you. This, in my opinion, is ESPECIALLY retarded for casinos to do given there IS so much other competition around them.

The funny thing is, you can't blame the bean counters either. It ALLLLLL comes back to appeasing share holders and corporate greed. It's the pressure they put on the CEO's/bean counters because the corporate greed approach is "we can always make more." Businesses/share holders often don't realize there is a market CAP on what they can SQUEEZE out of people/etc. They just simply ALWAYS expect to make more next year, cuz after all if you're not growin you must be dyin!


Here's why... Let's say a casino nets $100 million this year (no idea how relevant that is but let's go with it). The share holders are like "hey that's great, so next year let's make our goal $110 million!" They don't think "where does that extra $10 mill come from?" They simply give that goal to the CEO and the bean counters and say "make it happen!" Then, knowing they'll get fired if they miss their goal (or not get bonuses, etc, etc) they have to find ways to make even more money... but you can only do that for some many years and after that you're no longer optimizing your business but ruining it by doing things like charging for parking, making people use your ticketing system for drinks, etc, etc. Because let's say they start charging for parking... Great, we hit our $110 million this year... Okay, next year it's $125 million! Um, let's cut back on drinks by using this ticket system? Yay, you hit your $125 million this year... Okay next year is $135 million! So on and so on until you get to the point you're nickle and diming the sh*t out of your customers to the point they hate you and your product/service and you see it all crumble and fall. Then, instead of realizing this, the share holders simply think "this CEO and group of bean counters can't get it done... let's fire all of them and bring in some new blood with more ideas on how to make us more money year after year!" instead of realizing what they're doing is inevitably bound to fail. They're entirely too focused on THIS YEARS RESULTS every year rather than the sustainable growth of the company for decades to come... even the casinos themselves apparently take the "burn it down" strategy.

It all comes back to the fear that the CEO's and bean counters alike have of getting fired for not hitting their yearly projections, which are all set higher and higher every year due to the ignorance that they think they can just expect more money year after year.
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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January 2nd, 2017 at 1:04:57 PM permalink
Quote: Romes

2x$250 seems like an oddly specific spread =).

Noticed that, did you? Heh.

Quote:

It all comes back to the fear that the CEO's and bean counters alike have of getting fired for not hitting their yearly projections, which are all set higher and higher every year due to the ignorance that they think they can just expect more money year after year.

I partly agree. Revenue growth makes sense for a product or service business that can sensibly grow, but the four walls of a casino tend to prevent runaway growth -- you can't just hold an extra 1000 people every day, you can't spread 100 more blackjack games, you can't just triple the table limits, etc. There's no way to rapidly scale revenue the way a software company can.

So on the one hand, slow revenue growth is expected at a land-based casino. But the problem is that a land-based casino is a business that, like any other business, has employees. And employees need raises, not only to cover inflation, but to cover their own career trajectories. If you don't hire or fire anyone for three years, you'd better be paying those employees more money at the end than at the beginning because they all have three more years of experience. That's a cost growth that, if not offset by revenue growth, reduces your margins. The problem is that casinos aren't like McDonalds -- you don't go to work at a casino thinking it's just temporary (at least, I don't think you do), so a casino owner can't get away with just having a revolving door of staffers and keep costs the same all the time.

If I owned a casino, I'd put all my senior managers on profit sharing plans and aim for revenue/cost stability, not significant profit growth. Growing profits wildly in a land-based casino means either significant revenue increase or significant cost decrease, both of which are likely to harm the player experience if you haven't changed something fundamental about the gaming products.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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