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Paradigm
Paradigm
Joined: Feb 24, 2011
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March 19th, 2011 at 7:09:11 PM permalink
Thanks for the input PaigowDan, Buzzpath & others.

Emphasizing the reasons the game is different/better than other games on the floor and what it offers the players as it relates to the volatility choice of various bets was what I was thinking was most important. I have built in payoffs that get white/dolllar chips in the players hands to address the tipping opportunities as I believe that is really important as well.

But from your responses, I realize I am going to need to work on my understanding of the mechanics of dealing the game. The correct way to deal cards from the shoe, proper placement of chips on winning wagers, proper stacking of chips in multiple unit payouts, etc. Maybe a basic course at dealer school is in my future, since, unfortunately, I am not a trained dealer.

My inclination was to announce that at the start of training sessions and acknowledge that the deal staff have skills and training "beyond my pay grade". I have come to appreciate how tough it must be out there on the front line of the casino, rotating from game to game and being able to do it all smoothly. These are not skills you perfect without lots of practice and experience.

Hoping the fact that I acknowledge my dealing deficiencies at the start will be a good start towards a relationship of mutual respect.

Again, your input is valuable and I appreciate you sharing it with the board.
buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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March 19th, 2011 at 9:03:41 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

Thanks for the input PaigowDan, Buzzpath & others.

Emphasizing the reasons the game is different/better than other games on the floor and what it offers the players as it relates to the volatility choice of various bets was what I was thinking was most important. I have built in payoffs that get white/dolllar chips in the players hands to address the tipping opportunities as I believe that is really important as well.

But from your responses, I realize I am going to need to work on my understanding of the mechanics of dealing the game. The correct way to deal cards from the shoe, proper placement of chips on winning wagers, proper stacking of chips in multiple unit payouts, etc. Maybe a basic course at dealer school is in my future, since, unfortunately, I am not a trained dealer.

My inclination was to announce that at the start of training sessions and acknowledge that the deal staff have skills and training "beyond my pay grade". I have come to appreciate how tough it must be out there on the front line of the casino, rotating from game to game and being able to do it all smoothly. These are not skills you perfect without lots of practice and experience.

Hoping the fact that I acknowledge my dealing deficiencies at the start will be a good start towards a relationship of mutual respect.

Again, your input is valuable and I appreciate you sharing it with the board.




Dealers school will awaken you to the fact just how much skill is required and how much friendly and efficient dealers can add to a table's drop. Unfortunately as your game is trialed, you will discover most of the casino's decision makers are short sighted and only evaluate the games by the increase in drop. No value added points for attracting new customers, offering a new game to existing customers, etc. Just what what the drop in that new game ? Not concerned with steady increase in play, like ability by players, just the bottom line.
Don't make the mistake that game developers and distributors do all too often. After a 6 figure investment, they go cheap when the game is finally in the casino. Saw no reps at all on Digital 21 or Let It Ride once trial started till games were removed. Stacey Perry flew out from Mississippi 2 weeks after installation and a month after that. Set up buffet in dealer's break room and sought feedback. Streak had a great run in Colorado for about 10 years till limits were raised to $100.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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October 9th, 2011 at 2:58:04 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

....[[W]hat is your feeling regarding pink chips used at $5 BJ tables?



What about paying 7-to-5 for a BJ? It adds only about half a percent HA, and leaves two whites to toke the dealer.
Paigowdan
Paigowdan
Joined: Apr 28, 2010
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October 9th, 2011 at 3:37:35 AM permalink
Quote: NowTheSerpent

Quote: buzzpaff

....[[W]hat is your feeling regarding pink chips used at $5 BJ tables?



What about paying 7-to-5 for a BJ? It adds only about half a percent HA, and leaves two whites to toke the dealer.



Adding a new fractional payout to a game will cause operational difficulties to the game. Dealers have a hard enough time not making errors, trying to deal perfectly, and handle shot takers and cranky floormen also. Surveillance will be annoyed. If 7:5 were added to the game, they'd argue "why not use 3:2 - almost the same." If someone bets $87 dollars and gets a blackjack at 7:5, the dealer will be stumped and annoyed (it pays 121.8 dollars, rounded down to $121 or $121.50 if half-dollar peices are used), and will trash the game to all players and casino management. $87 on a regular 3:2 BJ game pays 130.50, but easy to do: $80 of the bet pays $120, plus the extra $7 pays $10.50, so it's a $130.50 payout, boom, done).
When creating a new game, the options have to be easier and faster - not harder and slower, for the casino house to consider a new game.
On regular games, Players can throw in a nickel chip ($5) at any time, and be dropped 5 white chips in a second - to tip the waitress or dealer.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes - Henry David Thoreau. Like Dealers' uniforms - Dan.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 5:09:18 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Quote: NowTheSerpent

Quote: buzzpaff

....[[W]hat is your feeling regarding pink chips used at $5 BJ tables?



What about paying 7-to-5 for a BJ? It adds only about half a percent HA, and leaves two whites to toke the dealer.



Adding a new fractional payout to a game will cause operational difficulties to the game. Dealers have a hard enough time not making errors, trying to deal perfectly, and handle shot takers and cranky floormen also. Surveillance will be annoyed. If 7:5 were added to the game, they'd argue "why not use 3:2 - almost the same." If someone bets $87 dollars and gets a blackjack at 7:5, the dealer will be stumped and annoyed (it pays 121.8 dollars, rounded down to $121 or $121.50 if half-dollar peices are used), and will trash the game to all players and casino management. $87 on a regular 3:2 BJ game pays 130.50, but easy to do: $80 of the bet pays $120, plus the extra $7 pays $10.50, so it's a $130.50 payout, boom, done).
When creating a new game, the options have to be easier and faster - not harder and slower, for the casino house to consider a new game.
On regular games, Players can throw in a nickel chip ($5) at any time, and be dropped 5 white chips in a second - to tip the waitress or dealer.



I see what you're saying. I thought of 7-to-5 as 3-to-2 (for all even-dollar amounts) + 1-to-1 (for the odd extra dollar), so I just thought it would be easy to think of $87 as $80 + $6 + $1, which would pay $120 + $9 + $1 = $130. Bang. Zip. But I'll concede that that kind of efficiency is something that would only come with practice, patience, and experience, which the younger dealers might lack. At 6-to-5, $87 = $50 + $30 + $5 + $2, which pays $60 + $36 + $6 + $1 = $103. Either way, I'd hate to see the use of "pinks" be a gateway to degrading the efficiency of payouts at tables because of an acquired expectation by naive players for "small-change-remainder" payouts: "Where's my 17 cents?" Then there's the wit that thinks he'll "bet around" the HA: thinking $7 will pay $11 or something like that.
NowTheSerpent
NowTheSerpent
Joined: Sep 30, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 5:09:22 AM permalink
Quote: Paigowdan

Quote: NowTheSerpent

Quote: buzzpaff

....[[W]hat is your feeling regarding pink chips used at $5 BJ tables?



What about paying 7-to-5 for a BJ? It adds only about half a percent HA, and leaves two whites to toke the dealer.



Adding a new fractional payout to a game will cause operational difficulties to the game. Dealers have a hard enough time not making errors, trying to deal perfectly, and handle shot takers and cranky floormen also. Surveillance will be annoyed. If 7:5 were added to the game, they'd argue "why not use 3:2 - almost the same." If someone bets $87 dollars and gets a blackjack at 7:5, the dealer will be stumped and annoyed (it pays 121.8 dollars, rounded down to $121 or $121.50 if half-dollar peices are used), and will trash the game to all players and casino management. $87 on a regular 3:2 BJ game pays 130.50, but easy to do: $80 of the bet pays $120, plus the extra $7 pays $10.50, so it's a $130.50 payout, boom, done).
When creating a new game, the options have to be easier and faster - not harder and slower, for the casino house to consider a new game.
On regular games, Players can throw in a nickel chip ($5) at any time, and be dropped 5 white chips in a second - to tip the waitress or dealer.



I see what you're saying. I thought of 7-to-5 as 3-to-2 (for all even-dollar amounts) + 1-to-1 (for the odd extra dollar), so I just thought it would be easy to think of $87 as $80 + $6 + $1, which would pay $120 + $9 + $1 = $130. Bang. Zip. But I'll concede that that kind of efficiency is something that would only come with practice, patience, and experience, which the younger dealers might lack. At 6-to-5, $87 = $50 + $30 + $5 + $2, which pays $60 + $36 + $6 + $2 = $104, compared to the ideal $104.40. Either way, I'd hate to see the use of "pinks" be a gateway to degrading the efficiency of payouts at tables because of an acquired expectation by naive players for "small-change-remainder" payouts: "Where's my 40 cents?" Then there's the wit that thinks he'll "bet around" the HA: thinking $87 will pay $131 or something like that. Maybe in this area is where virtual B.J. "slots" are superior?
1BB
1BB
Joined: Oct 10, 2011
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November 6th, 2011 at 9:44:14 AM permalink
Casinos could always require that bets be made in $5 increments - $5, $10, $15 etc. The player would still receive pink chips or white for the 6/5 game, but couldn't bet them until they add up to $5.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi

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