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DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 16th, 2022 at 10:42:22 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

According to the Nevada Gaming Control Board, there have been only three field trials since June and the last one was in November. Is it possible that the pathway to business success, for the little guy, in inventing new table games is over? The market for doing math on such games has certainly dried up, except for those who do it for free.

Isn稚 it possible that the lack of field trials / reduced math workload, is still due to covid reductions?

Quote: Wizard

I'm not saying this conference has no value for the typical attendee, but I wouldn't recommend paying to exhibit a game there any longer.
link to original post

Is there an alternative other than direct to distributors?
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Wizard
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April 17th, 2022 at 1:43:17 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Isn稚 it possible that the lack of field trials / reduced math workload, is still due to covid reductions?



Possible, but I would say it's other reasons. The gaming business has been thriving since things opened back up.

Quote: Wizard

Is there an alternative other than direct to distributors?
link to original post



Sure. You have much more bargaining power with the distributors if you can demonstrate a few successful placements yourself.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
teliot
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April 17th, 2022 at 9:33:29 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I'm not saying this conference has no value for the typical attendee, but I wouldn't recommend paying to exhibit a game there any longer.
link to original post

I would say that as a current professional in the area and a speaker at the conference, you run the risk of a negligent tortuous interference lawsuit by the organizer for posting this. Maybe some random lawyer here could comment.

Just saying.
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SphinxOfCups
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DJTeddyBear
April 17th, 2022 at 11:56:41 AM permalink
Yeah, seems a little late to be dropping that kind of negativity Mike.

Also yeah, I would suggest that COVID has made an impact on game invention, not just in that it may have made it less likely for Field Trials to go through, but also due to fewer opportunities for inventors to even market their games--in part due to the lack of conferences like these in the last two years, including the virtual Cutting Edge 2020.

There also is just still a lot of negativity and uncertainty in game invention right now due to the patenting situation, the financial barrier to entry no doubt becoming larger as a result of COVID's impact on the economy and on individuals (as lots of new table games are made by distributors, sure, but also independent inventors like us), and the resources and information in the field remaining so limited--the best and most realistic information for success available remains Dan Lubin's book, which can only go so far.

To suggest that there is no longer a market for new games sounds like needless doomsaying. It may be much, much harder, and I don't think anyone can argue that that's not the case. Things may not even bounce back to what they were ten years ago. But the only way the success of game invention dies, as I see it, is if there stops being inventors, and so far that hasn't happened yet.
Wizard
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MrCasinoGames
April 17th, 2022 at 4:54:58 PM permalink
Quote: SphinxOfCups

Yeah, seems a little late to be dropping that kind of negativity Mike.
link to original post



To be clear, I'm not trying to be negative about this particular show. Most people do not go for the purpose of shopping for or selling new games. For them, by all means, go.

However, as someone who works closely with game inventors, I'm pessimistic about what the future looks like for the little guy making it. My advice could have been better stated to not take the risk of spending time and money on new table games in general at this time, including displaying at any show. However, if you must do so anyway, I think money is better spent at Cutting Edge than G2E.
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SphinxOfCups
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April 17th, 2022 at 5:37:35 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


However, as someone who works closely with game inventors, I'm pessimistic about what the future looks like for the little guy making it. My advice could have been better stated to not take the risk of spending time and money on new table games in general at this time, including displaying at any show.
link to original post


I may be new to the game invention game, but it seems too soon to tell from where I'm sitting. Without conventions like this in two years, without a market for inventors to get into comfortably -- and indeed, in a time period when a lot of resources have suggested to up and coming inventors to wait until COVID dies down and the gaming industry to recover and return to being in a state accepting of New games -- it's no surprise that there would be a temporary dearth. It *might* be permanent, but I don't think we have the data to know or even suggest that right now. Things are only just returning to normal (or new normal) in a meaningful way.

Every industry is hard for the little guy these days, and that's it's own problem with the economy and society we're in, but for the advice to be give up, I find, is needlessly pessimistic and doesn't challenge those norms.
Lucky
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SphinxOfCupsDieter
April 17th, 2022 at 5:59:22 PM permalink
Well said, Sphinx.

I would add one additional barrier that may have been implied but not explicitly expressed: there seems to be a severe shortage of qualified dealers industry-wide, which makes the decision to put a new game on the floor more difficult than ever before; i.e., how can you train your deal staff on a new game when it痴 too thin to open the games already on the floor?
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Dieter
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April 17th, 2022 at 6:21:02 PM permalink
Quote: Lucky

Well said, Sphinx.

I would add one additional barrier that may have been implied but not explicitly expressed: there seems to be a severe shortage of qualified dealers industry-wide, which makes the decision to put a new game on the floor more difficult than ever before; i.e., how can you train your deal staff on a new game when it痴 too thin to open the games already on the floor?
link to original post


Way out here in the sticks, there are still billboards advertising to hire dealers at seemingly high pay rates. Not sure if they're adding in estimated tokes to get those numbers or guaranteeing a minimum if tokes don't cover it.
I'll keep my eyes open to confirm when next I go through.

A fair number of casinos have seriously cut back table game hours; others have replaced live tables with ETG's. I am assuming this is to reduce the number of dealers they need to try to recruit.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DRich
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April 18th, 2022 at 10:20:54 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: Lucky

Well said, Sphinx.

I would add one additional barrier that may have been implied but not explicitly expressed: there seems to be a severe shortage of qualified dealers industry-wide, which makes the decision to put a new game on the floor more difficult than ever before; i.e., how can you train your deal staff on a new game when it痴 too thin to open the games already on the floor?
link to original post


Way out here in the sticks, there are still billboards advertising to hire dealers at seemingly high pay rates. Not sure if they're adding in estimated tokes to get those numbers or guaranteeing a minimum if tokes don't cover it.
I'll keep my eyes open to confirm when next I go through.

A fair number of casinos have seriously cut back table game hours; others have replaced live tables with ETG's. I am assuming this is to reduce the number of dealers they need to try to recruit.
link to original post



My guess would be if they are offering over $45k a year they are including tips.
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Dieter
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April 18th, 2022 at 11:29:29 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: Dieter

Way out here in the sticks, there are still billboards advertising to hire dealers at seemingly high pay rates. Not sure if they're adding in estimated tokes to get those numbers or guaranteeing a minimum if tokes don't cover it.
I'll keep my eyes open to confirm when next I go through.
link to original post



My guess would be if they are offering over $45k a year they are including tips.
link to original post



The original ads were guaranteeing $25/hr minimum.
Not being a dealer in the area, I didn't dig into the offer details. I'm assuming there were carveouts for refusing EO, refusing shifts, and a sunset date on the guarantee offer.

edit: Job posting is still up online, mentions $25/hr guaranteed minimum. No details on what the fine print says.

edit 2: Billboard seems to have been re-messaged into a giveaway promo to attract players.
Last edited by: Dieter on Apr 18, 2022
May the cards fall in your favor.

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