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buzzpaff
buzzpaff
Joined: Mar 8, 2011
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October 9th, 2011 at 8:43:07 PM permalink
I suck at math. What would be the odds against me turning over double 1, 2, 3, and the dealer having double 4,5,6. ?
Face
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Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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October 9th, 2011 at 8:52:44 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

Still wondering if anybody knows of any video on line showing Tiles being dealt. Only Pai Gow Poker videos I find are dealt with cards ?



Pai Gow Poker is ONLY played with cards. Try Pai Gow or Pai Gow Tiles
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
heather
heather
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October 10th, 2011 at 6:18:43 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

The best score is 9 and game uses baccarat scoring system. "Domino Baccarat"....I hate that one because bacc is already a mysterious game to many and now you are introducing a new device to an already misunderstood game to the westerners.



Not to mention the uniquely Chinese claim that Baccarat grew out of Pai gow ("Make nine"). No, I don't believe it either.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
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October 10th, 2011 at 9:58:53 AM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

I suck at math. What would be the odds against me turning over double 1, 2, 3, and the dealer having double 4,5,6. ?


1 in 7.5M for double-six set, 1 in 1M for double-five. Ironically, the player would win that hand 6/6 vs. dealer 5/5. Don't forget that in a double-six set, there are 7 doubles tiles, double 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

If I removed the 3-doubles pay in the paytable, the hit rate drops to 1 in 50 (2%) for double-six play and 1 in 33 (3%) for double-five play, but I can have much higher awards. Here's a double-six paytable based on a $1 bet with a progressive jackpot:
4 doubles pays $20
5 doubles pays $200
6 doubles pays progressive (reset at $10,000 + 7% action, avg. jackpot is about $13,800, breakeven is about $19,100)
House edge is about 10%

Or going the other way, for the double-five game, I can push more money down to the lower awards and skip the progressive, making this more amenable to larger wagers:
3 doubles pays 3-1
4 doubles pays 8-1
5 doubles pays 15-1
6 doubles pays 100-1
House edge is 4%

Thoughts?
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Paradigm
Paradigm
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:02:25 AM permalink
ME, sorry if you covered this already, what is the hit rate on the 3 doubles pay table above with house edge at 4%?
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:07:27 AM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

ME, sorry if you covered this already, what is the hit rate on the 3 doubles pay table above with house edge at 4%?


About 20%, and about 16.7% comes from the 3 doubles pay. That's for a double-five tileset. For the double-six tileset it's 14.4% overall and about 12.3% from the 3 doubles pay -- but the paytable above doesn't apply. For double-six tiles, I could use a 5/8/35/150 paytable and get to 3.8% edge. There's a pretty big difference in the two games -- one more double tile but seven more tiles total.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Keyser
Keyser
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:09:36 AM permalink
If you really want to beat the game, try and look through the tiles.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:18:11 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

If you really want to beat the game, try and look through the tiles.


I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but this game is unbeatable unless you cheat (marked tiles, use a non-random shuffle, collude, etc.) Each hand is played from a freshly-washed set of tiles, just like Pai Gow. One of the biggest Pai Gow scams in recent memory involved marked tiles coming from the manufacturer. But assuming proper equipment and no player or dealer cheating, you don't have the opportunity to "count" or use other AP strategies with this game. The dealer procedure prevents hole-carding ("hole-tiling") and bets must be booked before you know who's getting which stack of tiles. That's also just like Pai Gow.

But that gives me an interesting idea for a few cheating studies on how much damage you could do if you and the dealer *were* colluding. Maybe I'll have time next month to look into those...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Keyser
Keyser
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:24:23 AM permalink
If the new domino tiles are the same as the ones that are used in Pai Gow, then you can still look through them in some casinos. In Pai Gow you can get about a 7% edge this way.
MathExtremist
MathExtremist
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October 10th, 2011 at 10:33:37 AM permalink
Quote: Keyser

If the new domino tiles are the same as the ones that are used in Pai Gow, then you can still look through them in some casinos. In Pai Gow you can get about a 7% edge this way.


No, the whole point is that they're standard double-six dominoes rather than Chinese dominoes -- my game is meant to be a simpler, more player-friendly and more culturally-agnostic variation of Pai Gow, because tile games are really great but basically only Asian players understand Pai Gow.

But how do you suggest that you can achieve a 7% edge in Pai Gow if you look through the tiles? Do you mean illicitly, during a hand? Because everyone knows what the tiles are in a Chinese tile set, just like everyone knows what all 52 cards are in a standard deck, but knowing that by itself doesn't tilt the odds in your favor in a card game.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563

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