tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
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November 7th, 2016 at 2:21:46 PM permalink
I appreciate the effort here wiz, but can you list the video poker details that you found by variant for:

#12 Cromwell

Since you explicitly said you avoided advertised banks, I'm very curious as to why this is so high. I haven't checked Cromwell recently, but every other CET property I've looked at, the highest quarter game available is typically 97.69%. To have a 97.5% average they must still offer 7/5 Bonus for quarters or something.

#55 Caesars Palace

I really want to see what horrid games are here for you to have such a terrible average return. I also would argue this place could possibly use a recheck. The CET bartop average for nearly every strip bar is about 95.2%. How did you get 92.63%??
vegas
vegas
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November 7th, 2016 at 4:41:24 PM permalink
The D is 44th of 55. This is terrible and now the owner has bought more downtown properties. He is bringing strip pay tables to the downtown. I guess all you need is loud music and dancing girls and they will come in to play.
50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
vegas
vegas
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November 7th, 2016 at 4:45:12 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I appreciate the effort here wiz, but can you list the video poker details that you found by variant for:

#12 Cromwell

Since you explicitly said you avoided advertised banks, I'm very curious as to why this is so high. I haven't checked Cromwell recently, but every other CET property I've looked at, the highest quarter game available is typically 97.69%. To have a 97.5% average they must still offer 7/5 Bonus for quarters or something.



The Cromwell has many VP games over 99% in quarters

50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have a 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is a 90% probability you'll get it wrong
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 7th, 2016 at 5:36:22 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I appreciate the effort here wiz, but can you list the video poker details that you found by variant for:

#12 Cromwell

Since you explicitly said you avoided advertised banks, I'm very curious as to why this is so high. I haven't checked Cromwell recently, but every other CET property I've looked at, the highest quarter game available is typically 97.69%. To have a 97.5% average they must still offer 7/5 Bonus for quarters or something.



Yes, the Cromwell posed a little bit of a problem. At the time I surveyed it I didn't know about that teaser bank at the entrance. They do not have any special signage to draw attention to the games, like they do at Station casinos. So I sat down with my notebook and was very surprised at the pay tables I saw. It is also hard to ignore them because the Cromwell is small and has very little video poker elsewhere. So, what you see is a blended average between the good games in front and lousy ones in the back.

Quote:

#55 Caesars Palace

I really want to see what horrid games are here for you to have such a terrible average return. I also would argue this place could possibly use a recheck. The CET bartop average for nearly every strip bar is about 95.2%. How did you get 92.63%??



You're absolutely right. Upon checking my figures I found an error in my spreadsheet. Thank you for keeping me on my toes. A similar issue also affected a few other casinos I surveyed early in the process. Updated tables are below.

Keno

Rank Casino Return
1 Encore 93.52%
2 Bellagio 93.17%
3 Rampart 92.77%
4 Wynn 92.69%
5 MGM 92.55%
6 Main Street Station 92.30%
7 Hooters 92.30%
8 Golden Gate 92.20%
9 Gold Coast 92.16%
10 Suncoast 92.14%
11 Arizona Charlie's -- Decatur 92.03%
12 El Cortez 92.02%
13 Palms 91.97%
14 Plaza 91.91%
15 Palace Station 91.72%
16 Golden Nugget 91.56%
17 Fiesta Rancho 91.56%
18 Texas Station 91.53%
19 Cosmopolitan 91.41%
20 Silver Sevens 91.36%
21 Monte Carlo 91.16%
22 Max 91.16%
23 Westgate 91.11%
24 SLS 91.03%
25 Fremont 90.97%
26 Treasure Island 90.97%
27 Tuscany 90.88%
28 D 90.87%
29 Luxor 90.69%
30 Circus Circus 90.67%
31 Downtown Grand 90.62%
32 Stratosphere 90.39%
33 Excalibur 90.38%
34 Ballys 90.37%
35 Orleans 90.25%
36 California 90.20%
37 Caesars 89.94%
38 Mirage 89.79%
39 Red Rock 89.53%
40 Four Queens 89.45%
41 Hard Rock 89.21%
42 Cromwell 88.82%
43 Harrah's 88.81%
44 New York New York 88.80%
45 Linq 88.80%
46 Planet Hollywood 88.75%
47 Aria 88.58%
48 Paris 88.57%
49 Tropicana 88.45%
50 Palazzo 88.21%
51 Mandalay Bay 88.17%
52 Flamingo 87.57%
53 Rio 87.57%
54 Casino Royale 87.47%
55 Venetian 87.15%


Video Poker

Rank Casino Return
1 Arizona Charlie's -- Decatur 98.37%
2 Rampart 98.04%
3 Suncoast 97.92%
4 Hooters 97.91%
5 Orleans 97.86%
6 Red Rock 97.84%
7 El Cortez 97.79%
8 Plaza 97.75%
9 Fiesta Rancho 97.65%
10 Palace Station 97.62%
11 Gold Coast 97.51%
12 Cromwell 97.50%
13 Golden Gate 97.44%
14 Downtown Grand 97.43%
15 SLS 97.42%
16 Hard Rock 97.36%
17 Casino Royale 97.35%
18 Tuscany 97.34%
19 Palms 97.33%
20 California 97.32%
21 Main Street Station 97.26%
22 Texas Station 97.25%
23 Silver Sevens 97.22%
24 Westgate 97.20%
25 Four Queens 97.12%
26 Stratosphere 97.02%
27 Circus Circus 96.98%
28 Max 96.90%
29 Wynn 96.65%
30 Encore 96.62%
31 Golden Nugget 96.57%
32 Cosmopolitan 96.45%
33 Aria 96.45%
34 Luxor 96.41%
35 Monte Carlo 96.38%
36 Fremont 96.37%
37 Tropicana 96.37%
38 Treasure Island 96.32%
39 Mandalay Bay 96.30%
40 Caesars 96.28%
41 Harrah's 96.26%
42 New York New York 96.22%
43 Bellagio 96.05%
44 Mirage 96.02%
45 D 95.98%
46 Excalibur 95.96%
47 MGM 95.89%
48 Planet Hollywood 95.85%
49 Linq 95.83%
50 Paris 95.83%
51 Rio 95.70%
52 Ballys 95.52%
53 Flamingo 95.27%
54 Venetian 95.05%
55 Palazzo 95.05%
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
denstarr
denstarr
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November 20th, 2016 at 7:28:08 AM permalink
What does a 93% keno pay out look like, also, how did GVR and Red Rock fare in the keno category?
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 28th, 2016 at 5:50:02 PM permalink
Here are updated rankings. This should include every casino with a hotel component except Binion's (somehow forgot it), Cannery (that is way out in the middle of nowhere), and the Lucky Dragon (haven't been there yet).

Regarding the suggestion that I shouldn't ignore the teaser video poker games with good pay tables, I'm still considering that. For now, the list is still the average in my survey only, in which I avoided machines that had signage indicating the returns were higher than the casino norm. I do have an average that takes a weighted average of my average and the highest return on VP free. However, I struggled in how to do the weighting. Sometimes a casino has the best game all over the place and sometimes it my be just one machine with a rogue loose pay table the casino probably doesn't even know about.

That said, here are the keno ratings:

Rank Casino Return
1 Encore 93.52%
2 Arizona Charlie's -- Boulder 93.47%
3 Bellagio 93.17%
4 Rampart 92.77%
5 Wynn 92.69%
6 MGM 92.55%
7 Main Street Station 92.30%
8 Hooters 92.30%
9 Golden Gate 92.20%
10 Gold Coast 92.16%
11 Eastside Cannery 92.12%
12 Arizona Charlie's -- Decatur 92.03%
13 El Cortez 92.02%
14 Palms 91.97%
15 South Point 91.96%
16 Fremont 91.93%
17 Plaza 91.91%
18 M 91.74%
19 Palace Station 91.72%
20 Golden Nugget 91.56%
21 Fiesta Rancho 91.56%
22 Texas Station 91.53%
23 Cosmopolitan 91.41%
24 Silver Sevens 91.36%
25 Suncoast 91.25%
26 Max 91.16%
27 Monte Carlo 91.16%
28 Westgate 91.11%
29 SLS 91.03%
30 Green Valley Ranch 91.03%
31 Aliante 91.02%
32 Fiesta Henderson 91.01%
33 Treasure Island 90.97%
34 Tuscany 90.88%
35 D 90.87%
36 Boulder Station 90.73%
37 Luxor 90.69%
38 Downtown Grand 90.67%
39 Circus Circus 90.67%
40 Stratosphere 90.39%
41 Excalibur 90.38%
42 Ballys 90.37%
43 Longhorn 90.37%
44 Sunset Station 90.25%
45 Orleans 90.25%
46 California 90.20%
47 Caesars 89.94%
48 Mirage 89.79%
49 Red Rock 89.53%
50 Four Queens 89.45%
51 Silverton 89.30%
52 Hard Rock 89.21%
53 Cromwell 88.82%
54 Harrah's 88.81%
55 New York New York 88.80%
56 Linq 88.80%
57 Planet Hollywood 88.75%
58 Aria 88.58%
59 Paris 88.57%
60 Tropicana 88.45%
61 Palazzo 88.21%
62 Mandalay Bay 88.17%
63 Rio 87.57%
64 Flamingo 87.57%
65 Casino Royale 87.47%
66 Venetian 87.15%


And video poker:

Rank Casino Return
1 South Point 99.38%
2 Arizona Charlie's -- Decatur 98.37%
3 Eastside Cannery 98.16%
4 Hooters 97.91%
5 Orleans 97.86%
6 M 97.86%
7 Arizona Charlie's -- Boulder 97.83%
8 El Cortez 97.79%
9 Plaza 97.75%
10 Fiesta Rancho 97.65%
11 Rampart 97.62%
12 Palace Station 97.62%
13 Gold Coast 97.51%
14 Boulder Station 97.50%
15 Cromwell 97.50%
16 Longhorn 97.49%
17 Red Rock 97.47%
18 Green Valley Ranch 97.44%
19 Golden Gate 97.44%
20 SLS 97.42%
21 Aliante 97.42%
22 Downtown Grand 97.38%
23 Hard Rock 97.36%
24 Casino Royale 97.35%
25 Tuscany 97.34%
26 Palms 97.33%
27 California 97.32%
28 Main Street Station 97.26%
29 Texas Station 97.25%
30 Silver Sevens 97.22%
31 Fiesta Henderson 97.20%
32 Sunset Station 97.14%
33 Westgate 97.13%
34 Four Queens 97.12%
35 Stratosphere 97.02%
36 Suncoast 97.02%
37 Circus Circus 96.98%
38 Max 96.90%
39 Silverton 96.78%
40 Wynn 96.65%
41 Encore 96.62%
42 Golden Nugget 96.57%
43 Cosmopolitan 96.45%
44 Aria 96.45%
45 Luxor 96.41%
46 Monte Carlo 96.38%
47 Fremont 96.37%
48 Tropicana 96.37%
49 Treasure Island 96.32%
50 Mandalay Bay 96.30%
51 Caesars 96.28%
52 Harrah's 96.26%
53 New York New York 96.22%
54 Bellagio 96.05%
55 Mirage 96.02%
56 D 95.98%
57 Excalibur 95.96%
58 MGM 95.89%
59 Planet Hollywood 95.85%
60 Linq 95.83%
61 Paris 95.83%
62 Rio 95.70%
63 Ballys 95.52%
64 Flamingo 95.27%
65 Venetian 95.05%
66 Palazzo 95.05%
Last edited by: Wizard on Nov 30, 2016
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
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November 28th, 2016 at 6:36:54 PM permalink
Main Street Station has a scratcher card bonus if you get quads on VP. I would think this promotion would push them above their sister property, the California. Was this promotion factored into the return?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
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November 28th, 2016 at 6:44:31 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Main Street Station has a scratcher card bonus if you get quads on VP. I would think this promotion would push them above their sister property, the California. Was this promotion factored into the return?



I think you can't factor promotions into such a list, even long-standing ones, because they do have a tendency to come and go. Also, you'd have to have separate rankings for days when casino-wide promotions were in effect and when they weren't--for instance, Stations would be ranked differently on double-point days. Furthermore, slot club base return rates would affect the overall net ranking, but that would further complicate matters (for instance, given that South Point returns 0.3% and most other places return only 0.1% or less, its ranking should actually be higher than it is). I'm sure the Wiz doesn't want to go to all that trouble--but the APs here know all that information intimately, even as it changes from day to day.
Wizard
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Wizard
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November 30th, 2016 at 6:41:40 AM permalink
First, in correctly posted the video poker table twice. Sorry about that. I just fixed it.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Main Street Station has a scratcher card bonus if you get quads on VP. I would think this promotion would push them above their sister property, the California. Was this promotion factored into the return?



Nooooooooooo. If I factor in that I should be fair and factor in every detail of every player reward program, not to mention comps and free play they throw on top of that. To be honest, I had hoped this site would bring in the kind of revenue to monitor such detail, but it never did. So you will have to settle for just the pay tables.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
IndyJeffrey
IndyJeffrey
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November 30th, 2016 at 9:40:25 AM permalink
He also owns the Golden Gate (No. 8), no? So, randomness of the selected machines.

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