dwheatley
Joined: Nov 16, 2009
• Posts: 1246
June 24th, 2015 at 8:11:43 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

The sample spaced is small enough (134459 unique starting hands, modulo suit permutations) that "more is better" runs into the practical limitation of exhausting the cycle.

This is an interesting point, but I wonder if seeing the same hand laid out in a different way would cause you to play it differently at high speeds. I'm pretty sure I've made a mistake because of the order I process cards in.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1580
June 24th, 2015 at 8:18:46 AM permalink
Thank you all for the input. I am trying to learn a deuces wild game that I've never played before and want to be able to determine when my edge is sufficient to justify playing the game. So often we simply use the theoretical perfect return on a game and I know I don't play perfectly, so I simply want to determine what MY return is. I really do appreciate the input, I figured I could get a "good enough" number at about 2000 hands, so it is good to know that I was off by an order of magnitude.
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bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1580
June 24th, 2015 at 9:01:43 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

4

BTW Your book just showed up in the mail from Amazon, I can't wait to read it.
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mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
June 24th, 2015 at 9:33:33 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Thank you all for the input. I am trying to learn a deuces wild game that I've never played before

which one?
Quote: bigfoot66

and want to be able to determine when my edge is sufficient to justify playing the game.

wow
WOW
just start playing with a strat card!

this sounds so grade school to me

ands
which expert vp player (please name names) says or suggests to do this?
i mean
"determine when one's edge is sufficient to justify playing the game"

that makes the use of a strategy card (free or paid versions) useless i says
ands
you also mention (men) nothing about how many hands per hour you want to crush

do you have a vp book you got this info from?
if yes, name the book?

a webpage?
i can not and will not believe this is from a personal thought only

are you writing your own vp book?
i might write my own and have a video version to share
Quote: bigfoot66

So often we simply use the theoretical perfect return on a game

is not that the only thing that matters?
and all other thoughts and plans are just an illusion
nothing for fun or entertainment like this hit of mine
i was getting no winning hands so i changed games and pressed the buttons at the right time

a win is a win
Max bet would not have resulted in a Royal as i took me time to make my bet (i was giving 3 hands and out B4 WSOP event #3)

Quote: bigfoot66

and I know I don't play perfectly

exactly, how do you know this is true?
if it is true, can you play slower and perfectly with a strat card

0% errors at slow play can be worth more than .5% error rate at fast play in my opinion
unlesssssss

one plays for speed only
i hear
Sally
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bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1580
June 24th, 2015 at 9:41:17 AM permalink
The game is DW 44 that returns 99.95%. During certain times I can get 3/4% cash back plus mailers so the edge is not that great to where I can play with a lot of errors, and I have never played DW before so I am still learning the basics. The other playable game is 10/6 DDB which I know very well so I am continuing to play that relatively quickly, I would prefer to learn the DW game so that I can cut the variance in half.
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teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
• Posts: 2159
June 24th, 2015 at 10:07:28 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

BTW Your book just showed up in the mail from Amazon, I can't wait to read it.

Awesome! Please let me know what you think.
Personal website: www.ijmp.org
mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
June 24th, 2015 at 10:25:46 AM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

The game is DW 44 that returns 99.95%.

nice
here in SoCal we have the 20/12/9 (Yahoo!) version that i have hit many many many Royals on (more than Alan Mendelson in his long lifetime of play)
so many (i am lucky) i lost count in memory but have it written down
Quote: bigfoot66

to where I can play with a lot of errors, and I have never played DW before so I am still learning the basics.

you asked for a sample size and one poster said 4 hands

i still say 0 hands are needed
as practice has to be a non-factor to play perfectly any vp game

a strat card is all that is required (and HOPE it is a good one)
you disagree with this for some unknown reason, that is ok too (1+1)

do (DUE) have fun no matter what
i always say
i guess Royals are fun
Sally
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bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1580
June 24th, 2015 at 11:01:29 AM permalink
Well I got 2 dealt royals in the past 3 weeks so that is a lot of fun! I could play with a strategy card but financially it makes more sense to learn 95+% of the hands cold first so I can play relatively quickly.
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mustangsally
Joined: Mar 29, 2011
• Posts: 2463
June 24th, 2015 at 1:01:32 PM permalink
Quote: bigfoot66

Well I got 2 dealt royals in the past 3 weeks so that is a lot of fun!

i agree there
i have just one of those dealt to me name
Quote: bigfoot66

I could play with a strategy card

and in my opinion you should
because
Quote: bigfoot66

but financially it makes more sense to learn 95+% of the hands

i think you are sharing you opinion here and not a proven fact
not that all opinions are not facts...

in DW, i thinks, most times you throw away your starting hand
i think there is a post about that (maybe not your game of choice or no-choice)

and i would also think abouts 95% of all the dealt hands (in DW) are no-brainers
i could B a few %points off here, just a feel-guess
Quote: bigfoot66

cold first so I can play relatively quickly.

i say
it still depends on the kind of errors you make

how large and how often do you make them

(of course, not all errors result in a loss over a weeks worth of 24/7 play for example.
some errors would win a hand and some correct plays could lose too. this is part of the law of large numbers no one ever talks about)

how do you know the errors you make?
do you video your vp sessions (easy to do)
that sounds like a good idea too
Yahoo!
Sally

well
so
i take back the part about most hands are thrown away, just from my sample video
still, most hands (95%+) are easy to play correctly, imo
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bigfoot66
Joined: Feb 5, 2010
• Posts: 1580
June 24th, 2015 at 3:10:04 PM permalink
Quote: mustangsally

in DW, i thinks, most times you throw away your starting hand
i think there is a post about that (maybe not your game of choice or no-choice)

and i would also think abouts 95% of all the dealt hands (in DW) are no-brainers
i could B a few %points off here, just a feel-guess
i say
i take back the part about most hands are thrown away, just from my sample video
still, most hands (95%+) are easy to play correctly, imo

Yes, you are right. Having never played DW though it is not always clear when to hold a deuce and 2 suited cards, for example. If 95% of hands are no-brainers then I will be stopping every 20 hands to look something up, and this will take away significantly from an anticipated \$6 per hour opportunity. While I do seek out advantage opportunities, this is mostly recreational gambling and its just not fun to stop and look every 20 hands, and it is also not fun to worry about if I am actually playing the hands correctly. I would rather just get to the point that I am confident that I am playing with a 99.7% return and play through quickly to take the 3/4% cash back plus \$300+ freeplay monthly and food comp .
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