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Pando
Pando
Joined: Jul 24, 2010
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January 7th, 2011 at 10:46:29 PM permalink
When I played in Macau the 6 decks were shuffled in a "shufflemaster" machine after each round.
The maximum number players I think was 8, each drawing 2 cards unless there was a tie.
In that case another 2 cards (per tie) plus 3 burned cards were dealt from the shoe.
So maybe a maximum of 25 cards per round assuming the table was full, then reshuffle.

I think shuffle tracking may not be of much use. My view only.
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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January 8th, 2011 at 2:42:30 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

The wording of the rules is extremely and DELIBERATELY misleading.
I hate deliberate obfuscation in the casino's presentation of a game and its rules. I rank the wording quoted above on a par with the Spanish 21 game signs that tell you all the wonderful bonuses available and then, at the very bottom, in 4-point type, there is the phrase, "all 10s removed from the shoe".


Full and frank disclosure is rarely the rule in Las Vegas, particularly from the viewpoint of an inexperienced gambler who has had the casino pouring alcohol down his gullet for awhile and can barely navigate his fanny-pack around the casino floor.

However, its supposed to be a festive atmosphere, so what do you want the casino to do:
Post a sign saying: The woman who stops to chat with you is probably a hooker. The Strip Club is so named because it strips your money from you and has only ugly girls. The nick-name One Armed Bandit was invented for a reason. The drinks are watered and that waitress smiles at you so she can get tips not because she is hot for you.

Casino War is a simple Hi Lo card game from childhood often remembered as Strip Hi Lo, the card game of choice before kids learned the various poker hands for Strip Poker. Its a not particularly intimidating card game ideal as an introductory way to wean someone away from pressing a little red button all night long.

Las Vegas is not known for full and frank disclosure. It never has been. It never will be.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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January 9th, 2011 at 12:17:14 AM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Las Vegas is not known for full and frank disclosure. It never has been. It never will be.



Of course. But the wording I referred to in the War brochure is deliberately misleading. Putting the single most important feature of Spanish 21 in tiny tiny tiny type at the very bottom of the sign is deliberately misleading. Why, you should ask yourself, didn't they put that info in the same size type as the rest of the sign? (Obviously, Gaming forced them to post that info, so they tried to comply with the letter of the regulation while perverting its intent.)

Vegas has always touted itself as a place where the gambling is fair and honest. Deliberately obscuring important rules/features of a game destroys any trust a player might have had that that was true. I don't think the average visitor carries with him an expectation that he will be scammed.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
CRMousseau
CRMousseau
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January 26th, 2011 at 10:26:00 AM permalink
Quote:

Putting the single most important feature of Spanish 21 in tiny tiny tiny type at the very bottom of the sign is deliberately misleading. Why, you should ask yourself, didn't they put that info in the same size type as the rest of the sign?



If you're referring to the white plastic sign that explains the bonuses and rules designed to hold the rack cards, I'm almost certain that the text mentioning the removal of ten-spots is the same size as the rest of the text on the sign -- if it's smaller, it's imperceptibly so, as it's certainly quite legible to me. Sure, it's on the bottom. Should they be required to advertise the worst parts of a game first? It's a proprietary table game with a house edge under 1% (or under 0.5% for the redouble variant), hardly the stuff that rip-offs are made of.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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January 26th, 2011 at 10:36:44 AM permalink
Quote: CRMousseau

If you're referring to the white plastic sign that explains the bonuses and rules designed to hold the rack cards, I'm almost certain that the text mentioning the removal of ten-spots is the same size as the rest of the text on the sign -- if it's smaller, it's imperceptibly so, as it's certainly quite legible to me. Sure, it's on the bottom. Should they be required to advertise the worst parts of a game first? It's a proprietary table game with a house edge under 1% (or under 0.5% for the redouble variant), hardly the stuff that rip-offs are made of.



It only has that low house edge if the players realize what's going on and adjust their playing strategy accordingly. If a player uses normal Basic Strategy on Spanish 21, he'll get shredded, which is what the house is hoping for.

And the "no 10s in the deck" wording is indeed much, much smaller than all the other type, and at the very bottom of the sign (I'm probably not referring to the same type of sign you are). Why, you might ask? Could it be that they don't really want players to notice it?

I agree that the casino has the right to deceive, mislead, and hoodwink its players, but that's not the best way to inspire trust.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
CRMousseau
CRMousseau
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January 26th, 2011 at 12:16:52 PM permalink
Quote:

It only has that low house edge if the players realize what's going on and adjust their playing strategy accordingly. If a player uses normal Basic Strategy on Spanish 21, he'll get shredded, which is what the house is hoping for.



If the player played normal blackjack basic strategy at Spanish 21, he'd only be at a 2.0-2.5% disadvantage, which is high by blackjack standards but lower than virtually all proprietary games.

I'm curious what sign you're referring to -- the sign I'm referring to is a white plastic sign with a rack-card holder in the back. It first lists the player advantageous rules, then the bonus payouts, then the "played with six Spanish decks" bit.
mkl654321
mkl654321
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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January 26th, 2011 at 11:16:40 PM permalink
Quote: CRMousseau

If the player played normal blackjack basic strategy at Spanish 21, he'd only be at a 2.0-2.5% disadvantage, which is high by blackjack standards but lower than virtually all proprietary games.

I'm curious what sign you're referring to -- the sign I'm referring to is a white plastic sign with a rack-card holder in the back. It first lists the player advantageous rules, then the bonus payouts, then the "played with six Spanish decks" bit.



The sign I'm referring to isn't white--it's usually green, sometimes red, and sometimes a rather tasteful, understated brownish-red. It's quite large--about a foot high. I don't recall seeing the specific term "Spanish Decks" (presumably because there are no such things), but I definitely recall seeing the "ALL TENS (or, "10s") REMOVED FROM THE DECKS" in very, very small type at the bottom.

I would like to know what the hold is on Spanish 21 vs. regular 21. My guess would be that it's a LOT higher. Most of the blunders that unskilled players make in regular blackjack would be magnified in Spanish 21, since most bad players don't hit enough (they have an existential fear of busting, and then finding out the dealer had a hard 16 all along). A reluctance to hit is death in Spanish 21.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
TheNightfly
TheNightfly
Joined: May 21, 2010
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January 27th, 2011 at 12:49:01 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

I can't. I played that game when I was 6! I can't possibly take it seriously enough to bet on it. It would be like betting on jacks, or hide and seek.


I'd play casino Hide and Seek for money.
Happiness is underrated
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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January 27th, 2011 at 9:48:39 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

I would like to know what the hold is on Spanish 21 vs. regular 21. My guess would be that it's a LOT higher. Most of the blunders that unskilled players make in regular blackjack would be magnified in Spanish 21, since most bad players don't hit enough (they have an existential fear of busting, and then finding out the dealer had a hard 16 all along). A reluctance to hit is death in Spanish 21.

10-18% for Blackjack versus 25-30% for Spanish 21. Based on Atlantic City gaming reports.

The Match the Dealer has a lot to do with it too, I think. Almost everybody plays that bet.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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January 27th, 2011 at 8:02:02 PM permalink
Quote: TheNightfly

I'd play casino Hide and Seek for money.



I wouldn't.

But I'd play casino hopscotch for money ;)
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal

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