Poll

2 votes (6.06%)
28 votes (84.84%)
3 votes (9.09%)
No votes (0%)

33 members have voted

onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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March 19th, 2020 at 1:54:43 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Close a thread you don't agree with? That is original.....

It is a pretty relevant point. Nobody thinks everyone works for casinos (though many here do, even more watch), but I feel its a fair point of view to have, and its an issue I have long talked about, and now seems like a good time to convince others of the danger since people tend to be compounding fear of such things right now, and now is the first time casinos are taking many dramatic changes very quickly...



Nobody is being convinced of anything. It's pointless. All you can do is try and it is futile. Common sense says if it was easy, it would be done. Too burdensome and people wouldn't want to play the game without chips.


See we're arguing, it's like trying to argue with someone trying to kill themselves. It's really just a troll thread.

Look at the poll results. Overwhelming against you.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.
Minty
Minty
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March 19th, 2020 at 2:46:02 AM permalink
Periodically I have phases in my life where I like to collect things. By far my favorite thing to collect right now are casino chips. I like how they look. I like how they feel. Seeing how designs and textures differ is interesting to me. They serve as little souvenirs of places I've traveled to and help make the memories more permanent. I don't like the idea of being tracked any more closely. For these reasons and more, I'm pretty pro chip.
"Just because I'm not doing anything illegal, doesn't mean I won't have to defend myself someday." -Chip Reese
Gandler
Gandler
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March 19th, 2020 at 2:47:23 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Nobody is being convinced of anything. It's pointless. All you can do is try and it is futile. Common sense says if it was easy, it would be done. Too burdensome and people wouldn't want to play the game without chips.



I made my argument and pointed to evidence. Your response was people like chips are willing to accept the risk of chips and second hand smoke.

That is fine. But, I laid out my position in a traditional fashion, provided reasons, and alternatives.


Quote: onenicklemiracle

See we're arguing, it's like trying to argue with someone trying to kill themselves. It's really just a troll thread.



Kind of an ironic metaphor from somebody who is supporting activities that literally lead to death.....

But, again, you love calling threads troll threads when people disagree with you. I made a rational post, listened to responses, accepted when I had incorrect information (airborne transmission), and adjusted. The exact opposite of a troll post....

The point of debate is to lay out a position and respond to criticism, saying it is a troll thread because of argument, would imply that any debate is a troll thread, and without debate there is no point of discussions......

Quote: onenicklemiracle

Look at the poll results. Overwhelming against you.



The poll was alarmingly successful at suggesting that people who responded tend to favor chips. I never claimed the poll was going to go one way or the other. It is clear people are attached to the idea of chips.
Gandler
Gandler
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March 19th, 2020 at 2:53:59 AM permalink
Quote: Minty

Periodically I have phases in my life where I like to collect things. By far my favorite thing to collect right now are casino chips. I like how they look. I like how they feel. Seeing how designs and textures differ is interesting to me. They serve as little souvenirs of places I've traveled to and help make the memories more permanent. I don't like the idea of being tracked any more closely. For these reasons and more, I'm pretty pro chip.



Those are fair points, I enjoy collecting chips too (coins and chips). There is something interesting about antique coins and chips.
That being said I am not a fan of using coins in everyday life (anymore than I like to use chips).

The tracking issue is a real one. While it would be beneficial to some (some people get underrepped for comps when playing at tables), I can understand why some are hesitant.

I think even if chips were replaced, collectibles would still be available (I know it would not be the same as they were never live chips so to speak).
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Thanks for this post from:
MidwestAP
March 19th, 2020 at 3:41:53 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

It is well known that smoking is the leading cause of preventable death worldwide (and second leading cause in U.S. behind only to obesity because Americans have poor diet and exercise habits, casinos can also have a role on this front by having more standing tables and slots, and more gyms, but that is a matter for another time).



A casino is not a gym. Other than craps people do not want to stand, Casinos are not supposed to be your mother to keep you from being obese. I ask again why on earth you even enter a casino. You think they are germ factories and now you think they are somehow supposed to play a role in maintaining proper body mass?

I have said as a joke that when a casino puts the poker room, sports book, and men's room at far corners that forces that kind of player to at least walk some fat off. But that is a joke. A casino is not where you go to get healthy.

Quote:

It is also well known that improper hand-hygiene is one of the leading causes of deaths worldwide (that number is harder to quantify), especially in developing countries where diseases can be far more fatal.

Both smoking and disinfecting environmental surfaces are things which can be controlled (because it has to be assumed that most customers do not properly wash hands).

I don't think pointing out the harms of smoking and improper hand hygiene should be controversial.

I do agree with your comment that most people who play a lot probably do not care, because gamblers tend to engage in riskier (and less sanitary behavior) on average, which means casinos need to step up more than ever to be the responsible party.



"Pointing out harm of improper hygiene" is not "controversial." Suggesting cheques are some kind of bio hazard is. Suggesting casinos have a role to play in maintaining proper body mass is. You do not seem to understand either the purpose of a casino or the mentality of a real casino player. People who are afraid of every little risk do not frequent casinos. Table game players like seeing that stack of cheques. Poker players like seeing real cards come out, And plenty like doing this with an alcoholic beverage.

If all of this is not your cup of team play online.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 19th, 2020 at 3:44:22 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Quote: Vegasrider

Imagine playing poker without chips and not having any cards to hold. Online poker and live poker are different. just not the same. Besides, chips are used in the casinos favor, most people have an easier time betting than using actual cash.

As far the machines, the electronic paper ticket payouts are nice vs the actual coins dropping out of the machine.



Exactly, that is a prime example.

Everybody thought it would be insane to remove coins from slots. But, now tickets are widely regarded as safer and more convenient.

I would make the same argument for slots that they also need to go a step further and allow electronic deposits (not just cash) and electronic ticket withdraws.



On one hand I do not miss the machine oil you picked up handling the coins. OTOH, I miss the real feel of the coins. OTOOH I am not a slots player just VP, so they are not catering to me.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Gandler
Gandler
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March 19th, 2020 at 7:51:20 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Gandler

Quote: Vegasrider

Imagine playing poker without chips and not having any cards to hold. Online poker and live poker are different. just not the same. Besides, chips are used in the casinos favor, most people have an easier time betting than using actual cash.

As far the machines, the electronic paper ticket payouts are nice vs the actual coins dropping out of the machine.



Exactly, that is a prime example.

Everybody thought it would be insane to remove coins from slots. But, now tickets are widely regarded as safer and more convenient.

I would make the same argument for slots that they also need to go a step further and allow electronic deposits (not just cash) and electronic ticket withdraws.



On one hand I do not miss the machine oil you picked up handling the coins. OTOH, I miss the real feel of the coins. OTOOH I am not a slots player just VP, so they are not catering to me.



I am not big on slots either. But, it was just an example of a similar change that was controversial and is now the standard.

But, a good non slot example is roulette. I am also not big on roulette, but occasionally enjoy it (usually if others want to play it), anyway, there are always traditional roulette tables.
But, now many casinos offer physical real roulette with screen based betting (there are several companies that make such things). Generally the ball is rolled automatically. I much prefer playing this form of roulette (for one it is far faster as payouts are instant), and you are not dealing with several types chips placed back and forth.

Roulette is easier to physically automate than BJ for example (assuming you want to keep physical cards). But, even if there was a dealer, betting can be automated.
DeMango
DeMango
Joined: Feb 2, 2010
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March 19th, 2020 at 8:09:00 AM permalink
The first attempt at no chips at a craps table failed at Bills.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
TDVegas
TDVegas
Joined: Oct 30, 2018
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March 19th, 2020 at 8:21:38 AM permalink
Locals operator Stations Casinos pulled every single electronic bubble craps machine out of their properties over the past couple months...maybe they left one at Boulder Station. If I want to play craps...I'm back to chips and dice and elbows touching or have to travel a lot farther toward the strip or downtown. In hindsight....they should have left them. Social distance, no chips, no dice, wipe terminal.

Roll to win craps (touchscreen full size craps table...no chips) was supposed to be installed at the Linq or O'Shea's a long while back. Never happened as far as I know. Bills had a touch screen craps many years ago. Didn't last.

After this is all over...I expect some changes here in Vegas and a frankly, all over. Most likely in the buffet industry. Would not surprise me to see many go away.

Chips are gonna stay, IMO.....other changes? Who knows what's going to change. I've become very aware of a sneeze or hack cough within my "zone".

Even before all this...I hit the men's room after a casino visit and gave my hands a good wash. Then again when I got home. Casinos are a breeding ground for a lot of filth. They try their best to keep it sanitary but nature of the beast with people running in and out of bathrooms as if the table or slot machine can't wait.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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March 19th, 2020 at 8:42:44 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Gandler

Quote: Vegasrider

Imagine playing poker without chips and not having any cards to hold. Online poker and live poker are different. just not the same. Besides, chips are used in the casinos favor, most people have an easier time betting than using actual cash.

As far the machines, the electronic paper ticket payouts are nice vs the actual coins dropping out of the machine.



Exactly, that is a prime example.

Everybody thought it would be insane to remove coins from slots. But, now tickets are widely regarded as safer and more convenient.

I would make the same argument for slots that they also need to go a step further and allow electronic deposits (not just cash) and electronic ticket withdraws.



On one hand I do not miss the machine oil you picked up handling the coins. OTOH, I miss the real feel of the coins. OTOOH I am not a slots player just VP, so they are not catering to me.



I am not big on slots either. But, it was just an example of a similar change that was controversial and is now the standard.

But, a good non slot example is roulette. I am also not big on roulette, but occasionally enjoy it (usually if others want to play it), anyway, there are always traditional roulette tables.
But, now many casinos offer physical real roulette with screen based betting (there are several companies that make such things). Generally the ball is rolled automatically. I much prefer playing this form of roulette (for one it is far faster as payouts are instant), and you are not dealing with several types chips placed back and forth.

Roulette is easier to physically automate than BJ for example (assuming you want to keep physical cards). But, even if there was a dealer, betting can be automated.



None of this is for sanitation. It is all so you can lose your money faster. You need to understand that most players prefer chips. Most donít want a faster pace. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel. You are not making your case as was said upthread look at the votes.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others

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