Thread Rating:

Poll

3 votes (30%)
3 votes (30%)
4 votes (40%)
2 votes (20%)
4 votes (40%)
2 votes (20%)
3 votes (30%)
1 vote (10%)
1 vote (10%)
1 vote (10%)

10 members have voted

Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 5th, 2016 at 2:42:05 PM permalink
I finally made it to the Stratosphere yesterday to check out Turbo Football. Actually, I'm not sure what is the actual title, but Turbo Football sounds good. It was a pretty easy analysis so cranked it out in a couple hours. This would be a good math exercise for the mathematicians on the forum. I did it all easily in Excel. All you need to know is the combin function.

So, please click the link and check out the page. As always, I welcome questions, comments, and especially corrections.

The question for the poll is would you play Turbo Football?
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 2:45:03 PM permalink
"Turbo Football is a card game I spotted at the Stratosphere in Las Vegas on October 25, 2016."

We're you time traveling?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 2:48:01 PM permalink
I believe it's turbo sports... That's what it says on the game trial page.
.
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 2:51:21 PM permalink
So all that matters are spades and this is a modified deck? Interesting... Why keep the regular deck at all?

Did you enjoy it Mike?
.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
October 5th, 2016 at 3:13:00 PM permalink
There's a double "more" in #8:

Quote: #8

If the sum of the footballs between the nine cards is six more more and the player did not already win per rule 3, then the First Down bet, plus any double, shall pay 1 to 1. Otherwise, if the sum is five or less, then they shall lose.



This game sounds like fun. I would give it a try. What is the table min/max?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
  • Threads: 68
  • Posts: 11933
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 3:18:10 PM permalink
In the First Down analysis where it's paid 3:2 if the first three cards have 6 or more football's, how do you get 204,097,124 combinations out of a single deck with only three cards dealt?
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 5th, 2016 at 4:23:08 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

So all that matters are spades and this is a modified deck? Interesting... Why keep the regular deck at all?



Yes, what's on the playing card means nothing. They could have used cards with nothing but 0, 1, 2, or 4 footballs.

Quote:

Did you enjoy it Mike?



I'm just the math guy.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 5th, 2016 at 4:27:08 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

I believe it's turbo sports... That's what it says on the game trial page.



The rack card says "Turbo Sports Football Edition." However, that is quite a mouthful. The other side says" Football," "Turbo", and "It's Fun!!"

The table felt doesn't help either. I think this game still needs a proper title.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 5th, 2016 at 4:29:39 PM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

In the First Down analysis where it's paid 3:2 if the first three cards have 6 or more football's, how do you get 204,097,124 combinations out of a single deck with only three cards dealt?



That includes the other combin(49,3)=18,424 ways to get the next six cards. I know they don't matter, but I like to keep the combinations in the same scale with each other. I know some other gaming mathematicians don't base everything on the same denominator, which drives me crazy.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
FDEAD3709
FDEAD3709
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 94
Joined: Oct 1, 2016
October 5th, 2016 at 4:59:11 PM permalink
What drives me crazy is there is no bet for a safety. Of course, some people might not be attracted to such a bet!
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 5:52:39 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I think this game still needs a proper title.



Agreed
.
FDEAD3709
FDEAD3709
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 94
Joined: Oct 1, 2016
October 5th, 2016 at 5:59:46 PM permalink
Hire a good lawyer Use large type and tiny type Not For Losers Football.
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
October 5th, 2016 at 8:59:23 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

So all that matters are spades and this is a modified deck? Interesting... Why keep the regular deck at all?



I second this. I mean, I saw the Wiz's answer that the other cards mean nothing, but this was the only part of the article that didn't make immediate sense to me.

With an autoshuffler (pai gow poker esque) you could get in as many hands as blackjack. Fair game, fair side bets, I might have to make a detour and patronize it.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 5:14:21 AM permalink
Mike, are the additional six cards dealt to players individually after the initial 3 community cards and players place their play wagers or are they also community cards?
.
panda1314
panda1314
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 27, 2016
October 6th, 2016 at 6:49:13 AM permalink
Is this the game field trailed and removed at The Orleans last year or 2 years ago? The name sounds familiar.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 9:23:41 AM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

I second this. I mean, I saw the Wiz's answer that the other cards mean nothing, but this was the only part of the article that didn't make immediate sense to me.

With an autoshuffler (pai gow poker esque) you could get in as many hands as blackjack. Fair game, fair side bets, I might have to make a detour and patronize it.



Keeping the other cards lends familiarity to the game, and probably keeps costs down since you don't need to manufacture specially constructed cards made from scratch.

I am curious if the recommendation to stand on 2 balls and double on 3 is a close shave. Also, does having information about other player's holdings change the play?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 10:30:29 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Keeping the other cards lends familiarity to the game, and probably keeps costs down since you don't need to manufacture specially constructed cards made from scratch.



You still need the modified deck. I understand the familiarity statement, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the game.

The funny thing is that, a fully novel deck of cards would be the smart way to go about it from a patent standpoint. That would probably get them over the patent-ability hump under Smith. Hope they thought of that when submitting their application.
.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 11:12:17 AM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Mike, are the additional six cards dealt to players individually after the initial 3 community cards and players place their play wagers or are they also community cards?



Each player gets his own six cards.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 11:15:26 AM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

Keeping the other cards lends familiarity to the game, and probably keeps costs down since you don't need to manufacture specially constructed cards made from scratch.



They still have to create cards with the football images on them.

Quote:

I am curious if the recommendation to stand on 2 balls and double on 3 is a close shave. Also, does having information about other player's holdings change the play?



The double/stand decision is based on only three community cards. The additional six cards dealt to each player doesn't happen until after everybody has made a decision.

I'll add something to my page shortly showing the expected value of each stand/double decision. Some are close.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
Romes
Romes
  • Threads: 29
  • Posts: 5600
Joined: Jul 22, 2014
October 6th, 2016 at 11:21:01 AM permalink
Quote: FDEAD3709

What drives me crazy is there is no bet for a safety. Of course, some people might not be attracted to such a bet!

I believe Mike never wants to see a safety =P.

Could be a fun/interesting game. So ALL of the other cards that aren't spades are worthless?
Playing it correctly means you've already won.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 11:23:25 AM permalink
Quote: Romes

So ALL of the other cards that aren't spades are worthless?



Yep.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 11:59:39 AM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

With an autoshuffler (pai gow poker esque) you could get in as many hands as blackjack.



I missed this comment before.... There is absolutely no chance this even comes close to the speed of BJ.

3 community cards get dealt. Then a player decision. Then six cards get dealt to players who get to squeeze/look at them. Then the dealer has to resolve a number of wagers. This will not come close to the speed of blackjack. I see this more of the speed of UTH, miss stud or many other multi decision games.
.
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 12:07:24 PM permalink
Also, an edit for the rules page Mike.

Rule 8 reads:

"8. If the sum of the footballs between the nine cards is six or more and the player did not already win per Rule 3, then the First Down bet, plus any double, shall pay 1 to 1. Otherwise, if the sum is five or less, then they shall lose."

I believe it is supposed to read :

"8. If the sum of the footballs between the nine cards is six or more and the player did not already win per Rule 5, then the First Down bet, plus any double, shall pay 1 to 1. Otherwise, if the sum is five or less, then they shall lose."
.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 1:13:36 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

Also, an edit for the rules page Mike.



Thanks, you're right.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 1:47:30 PM permalink
Last little thing...

Maybe for rule #6, state that the player may also stand and let their initial 1st down wager ride...

It's a little ambiguous as is. I assume that they may double their bet or fold. Maybe clarify that there is no folding, and no need to buy the additional six cards to complete the hand.

Just a thought....
.
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 3:23:29 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

I missed this comment before.... There is absolutely no chance this even comes close to the speed of BJ.

3 community cards get dealt. Then a player decision. Then six cards get dealt to players who get to squeeze/look at them. Then the dealer has to resolve a number of wagers. This will not come close to the speed of blackjack. I see this more of the speed of UTH, miss stud or many other multi decision games.



Oh the last six cards are personal/unique? I skimmed it too fast then.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 3:46:19 PM permalink
Quote: ahiromu

Oh the last six cards are personal/unique? I skimmed it too fast then.



I believe the steps are:

-Place a first down and other desired side bets
-three community cards come (6+ footballs wins 3/2)
-if less than six footballs either let your 1st down bet ride or double it.
-get/review your own additional six cards and hope to win.

I'll let mike confirm if that is correct... I could be wrong.
.
ahiromu
ahiromu
  • Threads: 112
  • Posts: 2107
Joined: Jan 15, 2010
October 6th, 2016 at 8:02:27 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

I believe the steps are:

-Place a first down and other desired side bets
-three community cards come (6+ footballs wins 3/2)
-if less than six footballs either let your 1st down bet ride or double it.
-get/review your own additional six cards and hope to win.

I'll let mike confirm if that is correct... I could be wrong.



No, you are right, at least in the way it was written. Seems like a ton of time could have been saved by keeping everything community.
Its - Possessive; It's - "It is" / "It has"; There - Location; Their - Possessive; They're - "They are"
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 6th, 2016 at 8:27:21 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

I believe the steps are:

-Place a first down and other desired side bets
-three community cards come (6+ footballs wins 3/2)
-if less than six footballs either let your 1st down bet ride or double it.
-get/review your own additional six cards and hope to win.

I'll let mike confirm if that is correct... I could be wrong.



That is correct. I'm open to suggestions if my wording is unclear.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
  • Threads: 55
  • Posts: 698
Joined: May 19, 2016
October 7th, 2016 at 1:55:42 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard


The question for the poll is would you play Turbo Football?



Wiz,

Could be fun. Best case, bet $1 (as a simple example) on the First Down bet and each of the four bonus bets, and the player could win a maximum of $522 for a total combined bet of $5 (if I understand the rules correctly).

But, the thing that strikes me is this: If I win $522 because I'm hogging all the good football spades, that limits the opportunity for other players to win, right? So, the casino knows someone might win, but it would be hard for all players at the table to win any given hand. That limits the overall exposure of the casino.

So, my question to all the math wizzes is this: Assuming a $1 bet is the minimum base bet, what is the MAXIMUM loss the casino can suffer in any given hand, and under what conditions does it occur? I dunno how many folks can sit at the table, but there are sufficient cards for as many as 7 players.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
October 7th, 2016 at 2:00:56 PM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow

Wiz,

Could be fun. Best case, bet $1 (as a simple example) on the First Down bet and each of the four bonus bets, and the player could win a maximum of $522 for a total combined bet of $5 (if I understand the rules correctly).

But, the thing that strikes me is this: If I win $522 because I'm hogging all the good football spades, that limits the opportunity for other players to win, right? So, the casino knows someone might win, but it would be hard for all players at the table to win any given hand. That limits the overall exposure of the casino.

So, my question to all the math wizzes is this: Assuming a $1 bet is the minimum base bet, what is the MAXIMUM loss the casino can suffer in any given hand, and under what conditions does it occur? I dunno how many folks can sit at the table, but there are sufficient cards for as many as 7 players.



Edit: The three card community could have 9 footballs which would crush the house as all 7 players would collect the $500 from the 9-card bonus, Three players could get to 14 footballs and the other four would win on the first level based on the initial three cards. Total player win would be $3,610.50 (assuming the 3:2 on the First Down paid correctly on a $1 wager).
Last edited by: Ayecarumba on Oct 7, 2016
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 1325
Joined: May 29, 2010
October 11th, 2016 at 11:27:37 AM permalink
The trial was set to conclude on the 8th of this month... Does anyone know the status of the game, still on the floor etc......?
.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard
  • Threads: 1491
  • Posts: 26432
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
October 25th, 2016 at 5:40:51 PM permalink
Quote: mrsuit31

The trial was set to conclude on the 8th of this month... Does anyone know the status of the game, still on the floor etc......?



I don't know. Would be interested to know how it did.

In other news, I finally got around to scanning the rule card:

side 1
side 2
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
  • Jump to: