binary128
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
• Posts: 82
August 18th, 2013 at 8:05:53 PM permalink
Quote: ontariodealer

where i work you can bet all the bets at once if you like......our sic-bo (we have a huge asian customer base) holds 42%

42 percent? I'd guess that you would need a huge Asian customer base to keep feeding a table with that low a return. Then again, if the Player wants to play Sic Bo then they're gonna play them some Sic Bo.

We were aiming for a European Roulette return, with the "en prison" rule. Thus the Push, rather than the loss, on the Big, Small, Odd and Even bets.

Chris
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6272
August 18th, 2013 at 8:15:25 PM permalink
I think the payouts look good for the most part, but unfortunately, the easier hitting number bets seem to have have the highest edges. You offer 15:2 for the four number bet. You could offer 13:2 on 10/11 if you wanted to go away from the "X to 1" setup. But that's just me being a player advocate. ;)
binary128
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
• Posts: 82
August 18th, 2013 at 10:07:14 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

I think the payouts look good for the most part, but unfortunately, the easier hitting number bets seem to have have the highest edges. You offer 15:2 for the four number bet. You could offer 13:2 on 10/11 if you wanted to go away from the "X to 1" setup. But that's just me being a player advocate. ;)

You are exactly right. We calculated the 6:1, 6.5:1 and 7:1 returns for the 10/11 bets. 6:1 holds 12.5% (too much), 7:1 holds nothing. 13:2 holds 6.25%, which at least puts it in the ballpark.

Relative to all of the other bets, the 6:1 is not in that ballpark - it's out in the parking lot.

I'm on the fence about going with the 13:2 there for no other reason than graphical continuity. These bets are sitting right in the middle of a long row of "X:1" graphical elements. However, when I see the actual table I might change my mind.

The 15:2 payout on the "pick 4 numbers" bet does not have the issue of graphical continuity because of how it is placed on the table. For this bet the 7:1 held 11.1% (too much), and the 8:1 held nothing, so we went with the 15:2.

Even so, when I compare our numbers to those that I see on the WOO Sic Bo site, we blow everything else out of the water. Macau's hold on the 4/17 bets is an outrageous 47.2%. Ours is 1.4%. But that's just me taking credit where credit is due ;)

Chris
MathExtremist
Joined: Aug 31, 2010
• Posts: 6526
August 18th, 2013 at 10:28:56 PM permalink
Quote: binary128

42 percent? I'd guess that you would need a huge Asian customer base to keep feeding a table with that low a return. Then again, if the Player wants to play Sic Bo then they're gonna play them some Sic Bo.

We were aiming for a European Roulette return, with the "en prison" rule. Thus the Push, rather than the loss, on the Big, Small, Odd and Even bets.

Chris

Don't forget, that's hold (win/drop), not house edge (win/handle). 42% in a land-based casino means a healthy edge and a lot of bankroll turnover.

For your game, I'd suggest making the edges of the different bets correlated to the payouts. The higher the payout, the higher the edge. Having a 1.5% edge is fine for a near 50-50 bet, but not for one that hits once every 50-100 hands. It's too easy to get lucky and skew the numbers, so those edges should be higher. Look at craps as an example, as opposed to roulette. But take this advice with a grain of salt; it's geared toward land-based games and monthly reporting requirements. If you have enough action then it'll all work out eventually even if all your edges are in the 1% range. Your clients will just need to be prepared for the swings.

Of course, the longest odds you can get in a 3-dice game is 1 in 216. PM me if you want to add a (patented) long-odds fixed or progressive jackpot bet to your game that can have payouts in the 10,000-to-1 or higher range (say, 1,000,000 to 1). "Million Dollar Sic Bo" has a nice ring to it...
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
ontariodealer
Joined: Aug 5, 2013
• Posts: 996
August 18th, 2013 at 11:09:53 PM permalink
42% is a huge return, I'm not sure why you say low return.
get second you pig
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6272
August 18th, 2013 at 11:57:04 PM permalink
Quote: binary128

I'm on the fence about going with the 13:2 there for no other reason than graphical continuity. These bets are sitting right in the middle of a long row of "X:1" graphical elements. However, when I see the actual table I might change my mind.

Chris

Yeah, that would be the one thing that would hesitate me from offering 13:2 there as well.

Quote: ontariodealer

42% is a huge return, I'm not sure why you say low return.

I think he meant low return to the players. And that's a pretty high hold for a table game. I assume your house edges on payouts are similar to Atlantic City and not Macau, I hope! But Sic Bo might have an above average "time at the table" rate too leading to a 40%+ hold.
24Bingo
Joined: Jul 4, 2012