The legality of messenger betting

Quote: troopscott

Why not have someone make the bet for you? Does Nevada have a law against it?

It is against the law, but it's seldom prosecuted, as it's difficult to prove. In my case, by the time you pay off the beards for their time, it isn't worth the fuss of explaining to them what to bet.

Quote: Wizard

It is against the law, but it's seldom prosecuted, as it's difficult to prove. In my case, by the time you pay off the beards for their time, it isn't worth the fuss of explaining to them what to bet.

I saw a sign at the sportsbook the other day that read something like, "If you're placing a wager or cashing a ticket on someone else's behalf, tell ticket writer before transaction."

Quote: RS

I saw a sign at the sportsbook the other day that read something like, "If you're placing a wager or cashing a ticket on someone else's behalf, tell ticket writer before transaction."

Self snitching lol

Quote: DrawingDead

Oh. My. This kind of thing is quite a persistent habit:

Well now.

Exactly where is this sign you "saw" that said "something like" committing a felony for which some people are doing prison time right now? What casino book did you see this at "the other day" and exactly where in that book is it located? I'd like to go there right away to get a pic of it, and I really do mean that I will go and do that right f*ing now, because it won't be there very long at all, owning to the fact that any such book is advertising an extremely serious gaming violation for which they could lose their license if they knowingly allow the transaction.

So please tell us now: Where is this sign? It surely can't be some kind of a magic secret sign that you "saw the other day" so please, where? Don't change the subject or "answer" the question with a question. Where is it? Exactly. This public sign which is "at the sporfsbook." Where?

What persistent habit? That you enjoy being on the wrong end of an argument about sports betting and/or do you just like attacking me for no reason?

I’ll speak to the book myself if you can show any applicable laws that state you can’t place or cash out wagers on someone else’s behalf.

Quote: RS

I saw a sign at the sportsbook the other day that read something like, "If you're placing a wager or cashing a ticket on someone else's behalf, tell ticket writer before transaction."

So we can promptly toss you out.

Quote: DrawingDead

Oh. My. This kind of thing is quite a persistent habit:

Well now.

Exactly where is this sign you "saw" that said "something like" committing a felony for which some people are doing prison time right now? What casino book did you see this at "the other day" and exactly where in that book is it located? I'd like to go there right away to get a pic of it, and I really do mean that I will go and do that right f*ing now, because it won't be there very long at all, owning to the fact that any such book is advertising an extremely serious gaming violation for which they could lose their license if they knowingly allow the transaction.

So please tell us now: Where is this sign? It surely can't be some kind of a magic secret sign that you "saw the other day" so please, where? Don't change the subject or "answer" the question with a question. Where is it? Exactly. This public sign which is "at the sporfsbook." Where?

Not really sure what you are getting all excited about. I can confirm that this sign is for sure in at least one sports book that I know of. Right next to it is the Nevada statute regarding messenger bettors.

Oh. Okay then. And unlike the apparition of a "please tell a counter clerk that you are involving us in committing a crime" sign, posting the prohibition on messenger betting actually does make some sense. So, where might that be?

Is there any conceivable reason not to mention where? Any possibility of anyone anywhere ever posting a sign that's supposed to be secret? So, where is it?

Just for funsies.

Quote: DrawingDead

Oh. Okay then. And unlike the apparition of a "please tell a counter clerk that you are involving us in committing a crime" sign, posting the prohibition on messenger betting actually does make some sense. So, where might that be?

Is there any conceivable reason not to mention where? Any possibility of anyone anywhere ever posting a sign that's supposed to be secret? So, where is it?

Just for funsies.

I is not a crime in Nevada to make a bet for another person as long as that person is of age and also in Nevada.

Quote: DRich

I is not a crime in Nevada to make a bet for another person as long as that person is of age and also in Nevada.

Quote: NRS 463.800

7.  It is unlawful for any person either solely or in conjunction with others:

(a) To knowingly pay or distribute profits or any compensation to a designated individual or equity owner who is not disclosed to the race book or sports pool pursuant to subsection 2;

(b) To knowingly pay or distribute a percentage of revenue derived from the wagering activity of a business entity to a person who is not disclosed to the race book or sports pool pursuant to subsection 2;

(c) To wager with money received from a person who is not disclosed to the race book or sports pool pursuant to subsection 2;

(d) To place a wager on behalf of a person who is not disclosed to the race book or sports pool pursuant to subsection 2; or

(e) To knowingly submit any false information as required by this section.

It would seem that the one making the bet must disclose being a beard. I've never once heard of this actually happening, but not everybody tells me everything.

Source: https://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-463.html

Quote: DRich

I is not a crime in Nevada to make a bet for another person as long as that person is of age and also in Nevada.

Hmm. That's truly interesting. From you, I'm inclined to believe it. I'm quite familiar with the longstanding Federal prohibitions on using Nevada's legal books for knowingly laying off wagers from others, which as you probably already know very well NV State Gaming Enforcement has always quite understandably known to be historically very sensitive to avoiding any question of Nevada's gaming industry coming near the edge of any appearance of violating. Explicitly so in the desire to avoid creating any reason or excuse that might have the effect of inviting Federal involvement in the business. But what you said above, if I read it correctly, is purely intrastate, as opposed to interstate... hmmm.

So, if that's right for the case of transactions originating and completing entirely in-state, and therefore not subject to the Federal issues, then maybe some version of the RS sign could rationally exist. And if so, it would surely be a damn shame not to immediately take advantage this great opportunity to show DrawingDead to be a complete fool & general ignoramus as well as a totally gratuitous nasty meannie ashhole guy by saying exactly where, right away.

Where is the line (that is not a pun)

So it's not illegal to have runners?

Did that law change or have we always had misinformation?

Someone explain. Can someone legally make bets for you or not? When are they a runner and when are they not?

Quote: DrawingDead

And if so, it would surely be a damn shame not to immediately take advantage this great opportunity to show DrawingDead to be a complete fool & general ignoramus as well as a totally gratuitous nasty meannie ashhole guy by saying exactly where, right away.

Snipped quote.

Yeah, because it’s such a rare event. /sarcasm. I wouldn’t take pleasure in making someone else look like an idiot or meanie or whatever else you’re saying. And I don’t necessarily think you’re any of those things. If someone wants to do that themselves, they can.

I don’t want to say where because I think you’d get satisfaction out of it. At the end of the day, the sign exists and another member has verified it, not to mention, there’s no evidence of a reg saying it’s illegal to bet for someone else (unless you don’t disclose you’re doing it or if you’re doing it for someone out of state lines).

You don't want to say where this public sign for the wagering public is located, because you were asked where, and then that would answer the question, which someone would like? Oh. Hmmm.

Perhaps if you asked nicer. Possibly use please on occasion.

Or, perhaps if there was any chance whatsoever it would quite obviously have been stated in the first place, since there would be every reason to naturally have done so. And perhaps someone who has been around to see a constant river of drivel eventually concludes they may just possibly already have a pretty damn good idea of what to expect about what someone "saw" or "did."

EDIT to add: And in a clearly related matter, or perhaps not, I feel pretty sure the George Hamilton hair remark in another thread would prolly be really funny and very effective at lightening up the tone around the dumpster fire, if only somehow I was able to "get it." Google was no friend.

Quote: DrawingDead

You don't want to say where this public sign for the wagering public is located, because you were asked where, and then that would answer the question, which someone would like? Oh. Hmmm.

I reported what I saw. Another member said he saw a similar sign at a sportsbook as well. The fact you somehow think it’s a crime to place a bet for someone else is telling in your motivation here for whatever reason. And no, I’m not going to say where especially when something like the following gets posted:

Quote: DrawingDead

Oh. My. This kind of thing is quite a persistent habit:

Well now.

Exactly where is this sign you "saw" that said "something like" committing a felony for which some people are doing prison time right now? What casino book did you see this at "the other day" and exactly where in that book is it located? I'd like to go there right away to get a pic of it, and I really do mean that I will go and do that right f*ing now, because it won't be there very long at all, owning to the fact that any such book is advertising an extremely serious gaming violation for which they could lose their license if they knowingly allow the transaction.

So please tell us now: Where is this sign? It surely can't be some kind of a magic secret sign that you "saw the other day" so please, where? Don't change the subject or "answer" the question with a question. Where is it? Exactly. This public sign which is "at the sporfsbook." Where?

Who are these people in prison? Tell me. First name, last name, middle name? What date? I’ll go there right now and verify they’re in prison or not! When did they go to prison?? When where how? Show me. Where are they??? Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. -That’s what you sound like.

Get over it. Placing a bet for someone else isn’t illegal. So please, enough with the fake news. You’re not convincing anyone.

Quote: DrawingDead

Oh. Okay then. And unlike the apparition of a "please tell a counter clerk that you are involving us in committing a crime" sign, posting the prohibition on messenger betting actually does make some sense. So, where might that be?

Is there any conceivable reason not to mention where? Any possibility of anyone anywhere ever posting a sign that's supposed to be secret? So, where is it?

Just for funsies.

Go find it yourself. Not sure where all of your attitude is coming from. If you doubt its existence I will happily meet up and take you to it personally for $500. If it is not there I will pay you $2000. It is engraved and everything. You're just being ridiculous. I imagine the statute is posted next to it in order to keep people from doing anything illegal unknowingly.

Someone explain. Can someone legally make bets for you or not?

If you inform the sportsbook, perhaps it's legal, but if you dont, it becomes illegal?

I don't care about you all's argument, I just want to know the actual law regarding this.


I have no doubt Max and RS saw a sign if they say they did.

The sign is meaningless, I want to know the law.

If you are compensating someone for placing a bet for you it is illegal.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/irs-gaming-agents-try-to-intercept-sports-messenger-bettors/

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/messenger-betting-case-nets-probation-fine-in-plea-deal/

Quote: AxelWolf

Someone explain. Can someone legally make bets for you or not?

I already quoted the law on this matter. Did nobody read it?

Quote: Wizard

I already quoted the law on this matter. Did nobody read it?

It did not go unread, and was an interesting item. But where and how it fits is what people with expertise developed from a great amount and broad scope of experience working in this part of the business and attorneys who are specialized in the particular field do, since one also needs to consider it with the awareness that there are also multiple other statutes and administrative rules with the force of law comprising the complete context of the subject under which everybody actually operates. For example:

https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2900

Quote:

22.060 Acceptance of wagers

[...]

5. No book or agent or employee of a book may accept a wager from a person who the book, agent,
or employee knows or reasonably should know is a messenger bettor or is placing the wager in violation of
state or federal law.

And you may remember the recent case of one of the most high profile widely reported examples of people in the business caught engaging in illegal messenger betting, when the director of Cantor's book at the M-Resort was busted for it along with 24 others. Michael Colbert eventually accepted a plea deal in which he admitted guilt to a Federal count and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors, and was subsequently sentenced to three and a half years in prison.

And in the resolution of the related civil complaint of 18 counts of failing to properly supervise and control their Nevada licensed sportsbook employees, the company had to pay the largest fine in the history of Nevada gaming enforcement actions of $5.5 million, rather than having their gaming license permanently revoked. It was mostly from individuals acting as runners and communicating wagering related information for interstate domestic sports betting, but of some tangential relevance in this thread, part of that particular illegal messenger betting prosecution and enforcement action also included facilitating some money to and from some offshore accounts with Pinnacle.

So, one does have to be careful about inferring too much from only one fragment of the relevant landscape. And anyone who is not very familiar with the business would be extremely unwise to readily leap to believe and act upon ANY of what they read about this kind of subject around here from this forum if they don't first have a substantial basis for judging the reliability of the individual source, including anything they might get from this post by me, without diligently getting competent advice on this matter from other sources. Sources that are definitely known to NOT be impulsive individuals playing around on internet forums, who ARE in positions to be accountable for consequences.

Because these kinds of actions can have very real consequences for people. Sometimes up to and including years in prison (for ex. 3-1/2 of them) and millions (such as $5.5M) of bucks. And that is a damn good reason to get seriously bugged about people who tend to pop off with declarations about what they've decided to "know" should be okay to do.

Quote: DrawingDead

It did not go unread, and was an interesting item. But where and how it fits is what people with expertise developed from a great amount and broad scope of experience working in this part of the business and attorneys who are specialized in the particular field do, since one also needs to consider it with the awareness that there are also multiple other statutes and administrative rules with the force of law comprising the complete context of the subject under which everybody actually operates. For example:

https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=2900

Quote:

22.060 Acceptance of wagers

[...]

5. No book or agent or employee of a book may accept a wager from a person who the book, agent,
or employee knows or reasonably should know is a messenger bettor or is placing the wager in violation of
state or federal law.

And you may remember the recent case of one of the most high profile widely reported examples of people in the business caught engaging in illegal messenger betting, when the director of Cantor's book at the M-Resort was busted for it along with 24 others. Michael Colbert eventually accepted a plea deal in which he admitted guilt to a Federal count and agreed to cooperate with prosecutors, and was subsequently sentenced to three and a half years in prison.

And in the resolution of the related civil complaint of 18 counts of failing to properly supervise and control their Nevada licensed sportsbook employees, the company had to pay the largest fine in the history of Nevada gaming enforcement actions of $5.5 million, rather than having their gaming license permanently revoked. It was mostly from individuals acting as runners for interstate domestic sports wagering, but of some tangential relevance in this thread, part of that particular illegal messenger betting prosecution and enforcement action also included facilitating some money to and from some offshore accounts with Pinnacle.

So, one does have to be careful about inferring too much from only one fragment of the relevant landscape. And anyone who is not very familiar with the business would be extremely unwise to readily leap to believe and act upon ANY of what they read about this kind of subject around here from this forum if they don't first have a substantial basis for judging the reliability of the individual source, including anything they might get from this post by me, without diligently getting competent advice on this matter from other sources. Sources that are definitely known to NOT be impulsive individuals playing around on internet forums, who ARE in positions to be accountable for consequences.

Because these kinds of actions can have very real consequences for people. Sometimes up to and including years in prison (for ex. 3-1/2 of them) and millions (such as $5.5M) of bucks. And that is a damn good reason to get seriously bugged about people who tend to pop off with declarations about what they've decided to "know" should be okay to do.

Aren’t you the one that tends to pop off and make declarations about stuff you’re wrong about?

^ Thank-you. And anybody considering doing something like this based on "information" from any forum post, please take that sentence to heart and act accordingly.