tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6261
February 1st, 2013 at 1:54:25 PM permalink
This thread made me fire up the "Carnival of Mystery" game on my computer. After spinning it a bunch of times, it looks like you can only get a full column of wilds on reel 2, 3, and 4. It doesn't look like you could get 3 Top Symbols/Wilds on reels 1 or 5, or even 2 of them in the same reel. So, if that's correct, the biggest payout is only 5000*27/25 = 5400x bet.

The second highest paying symbol can appear over the entire reel set, however. This leads to a 500*243/25 = 4860x bet payout.

Quote: TheBigPaybak

I was wondering about that, actually, which brings up a few questions on slot design for these games:
1. Does each column have the same symbols/reel as other columns?
2. Do the symbols in each column "randomize" in any way, or does the virtual reel always remain static? Or does it depend on the machine?

There are some machines, well one in particular, where I can watch the final column and actually tell more often than not when the bonus symbol will appear when the video reel appears in a certain way: when it's spinning during a familiar area of its virtual wheel set.

Other machines seem to always be randomizing- or possibly the virtual reel is just so big, so feel it's random.

1. No.
2. I'm not sure. I would guess it depends on the machine. Maybe one of the guys that have done actual slot machine design on here could enlighten us on that.

Edit: my answer for number 2 is while you watch the symbols spin. Once they stop, they are always static.
TheBigPaybak
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 437
February 1st, 2013 at 2:07:59 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

It doesn't look like you could get 3 Top Symbols/Wilds on reels 1 or 5, or even 2 of them in the same reel. So, if that's correct, the biggest payout is only 5000*27/25 = 5400x bet.

I'm going to keep an eye out just to see, although I'm thinking the design probably is done in a way to prohibit the top-symbol/full-reel payout: it just seems too much.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
• Posts: 6288
February 1st, 2013 at 2:26:54 PM permalink
All of the slots that I have done have static virtual reel strips where the symbol order is always the same on the reel. Different reels may have different symbols, orders, number of symbols., and reel strip length (stops).
Living longer does not always infer +EV
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 6261
February 1st, 2013 at 2:44:24 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

All of the slots that I have done have static virtual reel strips where the symbol order is always the same on the reel. Different reels may have different symbols, orders, number of symbols., and reel strip length (stops).

Does the reel order stay constant during the spin animation too? Because I could see machines have a different animation of the reels in motion while the machine spins, and then displays the static virtual strip on the screen once the "spin" is completed. I don't think machines usually do that, but I could see it being a possibility.
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
• Posts: 6288
February 1st, 2013 at 3:05:13 PM permalink
Quote: tringlomane

Does the reel order stay constant during the spin animation too? Because I could see machines have a different animation of the reels in motion while the machine spins, and then displays the static virtual strip on the screen once the "spin" is completed. I don't think machines usually do that, but I could see it being a possibility.

yes, it is possible. I believe I did a game many years ago that had a "blur" animation for the reels. That same blur animation was used for all of the reels.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
• Posts: 7999
February 1st, 2013 at 11:52:09 PM permalink
The game says win up to 243 ways, now win 243 ways, meaning there are 243 ways to win. Not having segments on the reels which cover the whole screen eliminates the possibility. Also, having a whole reel showing one symbol does not mean all other symbols automatically can be assumed to also occur.

TheBigPaybak, No the reel sets in one column are not necessarily the same and normally different for manipulation of the payback.
Each machine would have different reels based on the programmed payback. I think generally you are making up ideas to justify what you believe, such as "randomizing", and not discovering anything. Whatever machine you are playing you mention, I can only assume i is a WMS machine, because they have been known to make people lose their wits and let the imagination flow.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.
TheBigPaybak
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 437
February 2nd, 2013 at 2:13:07 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

The game says win up to 243 ways, now win 243 ways, meaning there are 243 ways to win. Not having segments on the reels which cover the whole screen eliminates the possibility. Also, having a whole reel showing one symbol does not mean all other symbols automatically can be assumed to also occur.

Right, at this point it seems it's probably impossible for the top symbol or wild symbol to fill three adjacent spots on ALL reels because of reel design although it certainly seems possible for a lesser-valued symbol to do so. As another poster pointed out, some columns may have 3 wilds in a row but just not all columns. If I play the game more, I'm going to keep track of the lower symbols to see if I can witness full columns on each column during independent spins, or if say, one column will always be missing one.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

TheBigPaybak, No the reel sets in one column are not necessarily the same and normally different for manipulation of the payback. Each machine would have different reels based on the programmed payback.

This I understand now.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I think generally you are making up ideas to justify what you believe, such as "randomizing", and not discovering anything. Whatever machine you are playing you mention, I can only assume i is a WMS machine, because they have been known to make people lose their wits and let the imagination flow.

I'm just trying to understand the different machines- and at least from multiple posters- it seems like the following is true- correct me if I'm wrong:
Based on payback percentage, a machine is set to have different reel-combinations of symbols, with each reel potentially being different. The size of the reels, though, can vary greatly by game.

As you say, it would seem any appearance of randomness may just be very large reels, am I understanding you correctly?

With regard to WMS, I would then say their Colossal Reel games have very large reels although not so for their "Money Burst" games.
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 437
February 2nd, 2013 at 2:15:13 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

All of the slots that I have done have static virtual reel strips where the symbol order is always the same on the reel. Different reels may have different symbols, orders, number of symbols., and reel strip length (stops).

Thanks!
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
TheBigPaybak
Joined: May 14, 2012
• Posts: 437
February 6th, 2013 at 8:07:38 AM permalink
Just to round this out, after doing some checking, it appears they get around the potential for the really large jackpots through the following:
1. No wilds on reel 1
2. No sequential wilds on reel 5
3. No sequential wilds with the top-pay symbol
4. No sequential top-pay symbols on any reels

So it would seem the best you could do with the top symbol is effectively a 9x multiplier, although you could theoretically get a full screen of the second-highest symbol for a \$30375 payoff on a penny denomination, 625 credit bet...
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
tsmith
Joined: Jan 15, 2010