Poll

16 votes (69.56%)
7 votes (30.43%)

23 members have voted

Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:49:32 AM permalink
Pocket pairs are much more likely to flop a monster hand and it will be better disguised. They also allow you to occasionally bluff catch.
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:56:21 AM permalink
Quote: FunkyDoctor

Here are the numbers on this in terms of preflop equity:

89s is about half a percent better than 22 versus a random hand at 50.8% vs. 50.3%. Pocket threes and higher are a clear favorite over 89s versus a random hand, with 33 having 53.7% pot equity and the value rising significantly from there as the pocket pair increases in rank.

Are you leaving out ties or something?

probably wrong but I seem to remember 89 Vs 22 is 52% of the time you win with 89ss VS 45% 22.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
FunkyDoctor
FunkyDoctor
Joined: Jan 18, 2013
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September 25th, 2014 at 10:47:15 AM permalink
I am not looking at 89s against a PP. I believe the OP's question was whether you would rather have 89s or the low-med PP as a starting hand, so I ran the numbers for each of those to see how well they stacked up against a random hand.

89s has 50.8% preflop pot equity against a random hand

22 has 50.3% preflop pot equity against a random hand

33 has 53.7% preflop pot equity against a random hand

77 has 66.2% preflop pot equity against a random hand

All else being equal, I will take the PP over the suited connector in the OP's scenario.
Neutrino
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
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September 25th, 2014 at 12:38:38 PM permalink
Quote: FunkyDoctor

I am not looking at 89s against a PP. I believe the OP's question was whether you would rather have 89s or the low-med PP as a starting hand, so I ran the numbers for each of those to see how well they stacked up against a random hand.



That is correct
UTHfan
UTHfan
Joined: Mar 10, 2013
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September 25th, 2014 at 1:13:58 PM permalink
in defense of connectors...well hidden and will win over trips. However, trips can turn into a boat. And a suited connector flush may make you lose a lot of money. Hidden straight for the win because you can see how scary the board is.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
Joined: Jun 13, 2014
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:04:27 PM permalink
Quote: Rigondeaux

Pocket pairs are much more likely to flop a monster hand and it will be better disguised. They also allow you to occasionally bluff catch.

This & this; and also this.
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
Neutrino
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:32:16 PM permalink
Pocket pair popularity has dropped below 75%, so as I said I will be giving my reasons of why I'd prefer pocket pairs any day. The first post in the front page has been updated for the 6 of you who still think suited connectors are better.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:47:22 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

This & this; and also this.

Nevermind. Since you are shortstacking you cannot set-mine, there are no post-flop implied odds, and none of this is relevant.
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
Neutrino
Neutrino
Joined: Feb 20, 2014
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September 25th, 2014 at 9:58:33 PM permalink
Quote: DrawingDead

Nevermind. Since you are shortstacking you cannot set-mine, there are no post-flop implied odds, and none of this is relevant.



I can explain why pairs are still better than suited connectors in speculative play, but it seems very unnecessary as of now since pocket pairs are still the predominately preferred hand.

I will explain however, if the vote for pairs drops below 55%
98Clubs
98Clubs
Joined: Jun 3, 2010
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September 25th, 2014 at 10:58:42 PM permalink
As to OP... Have a look at Ultimate Texas Holdem. Raise 33 or better pair, 8-J Suited or better, 6-Q suited or better, any suited K or A.
No love for 10-9 or under. However, the caveat is Customer first against a Calling Station.

Bluffing is an element in any real table-stakes Poker. You wanna go 33 vs. suspected T9s, fine if you have it sussed, villain better not flip a pair or 2 to a royal.
Some people need to reimagine their thinking.

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