Online poker fraud indictments
Quote: JimMorrisonI'm not going to debate you, it's pointless. You have nothing to back up what you say except bullshit.
When TwoPlusTwo posted a file of a tournament round there was a statistical analysis and immediate agreement that the results were absurdly skewed. I believe this was a SuperPassworded player perhaps running a bot. Whatever the circumstances it was obvious and supported by a proper analysis. Now it is quite possible to conclude that people involved in operating the site knew of it and that they have revealed their propensity to cheat and are therefore cheating elsewhere. That is all fine and dandy and all such people have to do is perform their analysis and present their results. Constantly yapping about it is not evidence, it is just constant yapping.
I've long been suspiciously doubtful of the character to the people involved in these sites. Owners, frontmen, spokesman and star players. The lot of them. But its not proper to constantly yap about it. Some of us paint with a broader brush than others. Some require a lower threshold of evidence.
This thread concerns the indictments and the aftermath. The indictments allege financial transactions involving the creation and operation of offshore poker sites. There is no allegation in the indictment addressing the issue of rigged games of any sort.
Quote: 40487
jimmorssen your statement about 7 years of playing online poker. Is hard to believe. And any person that writes I lose no big deal just move on.
on is not a player. Has no idea, and the concept of people being untrust worthy towards money is new to him. Or he's just a villian.
WOO personally knows me and my history. I don't really care what you believe.
Quote: FleaStiffWhen TwoPlusTwo posted a file of a tournament round there was a statistical analysis and immediate agreement that the results were absurdly skewed. I believe this was a SuperPassworded player perhaps running a bot. Whatever the circumstances it was obvious and supported by a proper analysis. Now it is quite possible to conclude that people involved in operating the site knew of it and that they have revealed their propensity to cheat and are therefore cheating elsewhere. That is all fine and dandy and all such people have to do is perform their analysis and present their results. Constantly yapping about it is not evidence, it is just constant yapping.
I've long been suspiciously doubtful of the character to the people involved in these sites. Owners, frontmen, spokesman and star players. The lot of them. But its not proper to constantly yap about it. Some of us paint with a broader brush than others. Some require a lower threshold of evidence.
This thread concerns the indictments and the aftermath. The indictments allege financial transactions involving the creation and operation of offshore poker sites. There is no allegation in the indictment addressing the issue of rigged games of any sort.
You're referring to superusers on UB and Absolute right? They're crooks over there and I wouldn't defend anything they do. They cheated and got caught. Stars and Tilt have always run fair games, nobody to my knowledge has ever presented credible proof otherwise. Bots are a whole other matter and they exist on all sites, some site owners take the problem more seriously than others.
Also, are you the same FleaStiff who comments on Carmen's blog?
Quote: JimMorrisonYou're referring to superusers on UB and Absolute right? They're crooks over there and I wouldn't defend anything they do. They cheated and got caught. Stars and Tilt have always run fair games, nobody to my knowledge has ever presented credible proof otherwise. Bots are a whole other matter and they exist on all sites, some site owners take the problem more seriously than others.
Jimmorrison what Fulltilt! have you ever seen 3, 4 of a kind dealt out in 4 hands. In 5 card draw? Do you think thats proper poker reality? And 30 minutes before those 4 of a kind one was dealt. So that was 4, 4 of a kind in less then 30 minutes.Success comes before work, only in the dictionary.
Quote: 40487Quote: JimMorrisonYou're referring to superusers on UB and Absolute right? They're crooks over there and I wouldn't defend anything they do. They cheated and got caught. Stars and Tilt have always run fair games, nobody to my knowledge has ever presented credible proof otherwise. Bots are a whole other matter and they exist on all sites, some site owners take the problem more seriously than others.
Jimmorrison what Fulltilt! have you ever seen 3, 4 of a kind dealt out in 4 hands. In 5 card draw? Do you think thats proper poker reality? And 30 minutes before those 4 of a kind one was dealt. So that was 4, 4 of a kind in less then 30 minutes.
Present stats or shut up. Also, learn to quote properly.
Quote: JimMorrison Also, learn to quote properly.[/qI can't find the post on the 4 of a kinds. It was their yesterday. working on thequote thing still.
I found it. This is another player history...Tell him with your 7 years experiance. that you see it all the time. it's normal
Full Tilt Poker Game #29426661789: Table 706 (6 max) - 10/20 - Limit 5 Card Draw - 17:27:31 ET - 2011/03/28
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gr8manipulation [5h 9s Td Qd 5s]
*** DRAW *** (Pot: 120)
Brotback discards 2 cards
gr8manipulation discards 3 cards [5h 9s 5s]
rdodge98 discards 3 cards
LIRR391 discards 3 cards
Dogbreath1951 discards 3 cards
akroman101 stands pat
Brotback is dealt 2 cards
Dealt to gr8manipulation [Td Qd] [Ah 2c Ac]
rdodge98 is dealt 3 cards
LIRR391 is dealt 3 cards
Dogbreath1951 is dealt 3 cards
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Brotback shows [4h 4c 4s 4d Jd] four of a kind, Fours
Full Tilt Poker Game #29426690905: Table 706 (6 max) - 10/20 - Limit 5 Card Draw - 17:28:26 ET - 2011/03/28
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gr8manipulation [3c As Ah Ac 6s]
*** DRAW *** (Pot: 60)
gr8manipulation discards 2 cards [3c 6s]
rdodge98 discards 1 card
LIRR391 discards 3 cards
Dealt to gr8manipulation [As Ah Ac] [Ad Tc]
rdodge98 is dealt 1 card
LIRR391 is dealt 3 cards
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gr8manipulation shows [As Ah Ac Ad Tc] four of a kind, Aces
( i didnt insert this hand between the 4 of a kinds)
Full Tilt Poker Game #29426792781: Table 706 (6 max) - 10/20 - Limit 5 Card Draw - 17:31:42 ET - 2011/03/28
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gr8manipulation [Ac Qc 6d Ts 3d]
*** DRAW *** (Pot: 40)
55767 has 15 seconds left to act
55767 discards 2 cards
akroman101 stands pat
Old Man River 0 discards 3 cards
gr8manipulation discards 2 cards [6d 3d]
55767 is dealt 2 cards
Old Man River 0 is dealt 3 cards
Dealt to gr8manipulation [Ac Qc Ts] [9d Ad]
gr8manipulation: i've never seen 3... 4 of a kinds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Old Man River 0 shows [7c 7h 7d 7s Kh] four of a kind, Sevens
isn't this a bit much for a player to take as real poker?
this one was about 30 minutes earlier then the first hand at top of page
I left after this hand for about 20 minutes. So you could go (4) 4 of a kind in less then 9 hands i played in a row.
Full Tilt Poker Game #29425449307: Table 706 (6 max) - 10/20 - Limit 5 Card Draw - 16:47:46 ET - 2011/03/28
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to gr8manipulation [8s 5s 4h 6c 7s]
*** DRAW *** (Pot: 200)
Indiana Jones44 discards 2 cards
maryomafia_2011 discards 3 cards
Mad Dog 620 discards 2 cards
gr8manipulation stands pat on [8s 5s 4h 6c 7s]
juventus 65 discards 1 card
Indiana Jones44 is dealt 2 cards
maryomafia_2011 is dealt 3 cards
Mad Dog 620 is dealt 2 cards
juventus 65 is dealt 1 card
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gr8manipulation shows [8s 7s 6c 5s 4h] a straight, Eight high
maryomafia_2011 shows [9h 9d 9s 9c Jc] four of a kind, NinesSuccess comes before work, only in the dictionary.
Yes. I even quoted from her blog in my Tale of Two Casinos thread.Quote: JimMorrisonAlso, are you the same FleaStiff who comments on Carmen's blog?
Quote: FleaStiffYes. I even quoted from her blog in my Tale of Two Casinos thread.
Carmen is a friend of mine, I don't read her blog often but I saw your name on there when I looked the other day and figured you had to be the same person.
Quote: AltutSince this news came out, across the forums there are more people claiming they make money and/or "a living" playing online poker than there are people who said they went to Woodstock. Why "clear thinking people" would ever believe any online casino (other than sportsbetting) that has zero accountability, would be completely fair, could only be because they are in tremendous denial for the purpose of telling themselves "it's OK to keep on playing". Compulsion resolved.
Again I applaud these latest actions, anyone losing money because of it should learn a valuable lesson about sending funds to unknown/unregulated entities, and the fact that I have always resisted the temptation to play poker for money online while those who couldn't are now getting their due, is extremely satisfying to me.
First off, regarding my credentials, I'm a personal friend of WOO and he can back up that I am what I say I am. I'm not going to argue this fact further. Second, if you see across forums people saying they make a living at this it's probably because you're reading communities like 2+2 where a large number of people DO make a living at this.
As for unregulated, you are aware that PokerStars is licensed in the Isle of Man which is a dependancy of the UK (our closest ally). Full Tilt was based in Ireland, another ally. Neteller when they were taken down by the US government was licensed in the UK and traded on the London stock exchange! Yes there are a large number of unregulated poker sites/casino/books out there but that isn't what we're talking about here. I'm glad it's satisfying to you, you probably also took satisfaction when the teacher made you a hall monitor.
I used to play a lot of online poker but found my ROI slipping dramatically in the last 1-1.5 years so I cashed out and quit. Not due to "cheating" by the sites, just seemed more and more people knew how to play correct tourney and sitn go strategy. One conspiracy I never could discard was mentioned earlier in this thread. It seemed to me action flops, turns, and rivers were more common than in live poker and this would obviously increase the rake per hand. Skilled players would still end up ahead, card frequencies would be unaffected, but if the software were programmed for this it would be hard to detect and beneficial to the site. I'm not saying it's happening, I'm just saying I had my suspicions.
Quote: clarkacalJimMorrison are you a sitngo, tourney, or cash game player? Or mixture? I've noticed you've been on here more often in the last couple of days no doubt due to the site shut downs. There is nothing worse as a gambler than your profitable games suddenly being cutoff.
I used to play a lot of online poker but found my ROI slipping dramatically in the last 1-1.5 years so I cashed out and quit. Not due to "cheating" by the sites, just seemed more and more people knew how to play correct tourney and sitn go strategy. One conspiracy I never could discard was mentioned earlier in this thread. It seemed to me action flops, turns, and rivers were more common than in live poker and this would obviously increase the rake per hand. Skilled players would still end up ahead, card frequencies would be unaffected, but if the software were programmed for this it would be hard to detect and beneficial to the site. I'm not saying it's happening, I'm just saying I had my suspicions.
I'm more of a cash game player. I'm active here and there on this forum, normally in spurts like this. I did check in here yesterday to see what's been said and got drawn into a few threads obviously. But I've always been semi-active here.
Your theory is one that people have said for years, obviously there is no way for me to disprove it without auditing the site or their RNG. However there is such an incredible amount of money to be made without cheating that it doesn't seem worth their reputation. I know the Isle of Man has tightened their regulation in the last year or two and it seems to me that this theory is just another conspiracy. Take Party Poker for example, before UIGEA they were the top site and everyone claimed they were rigged for action. However they were also traded on the London Stock Exchange and worth billions, a scandal would of destroyed them. Would it be worth it? When you deal millions of hands of poker daily there are always crazy situations occurring. That one in a million hand is going to happen several times a day on large sites. Sitting at the Bellagio you might go your entire life without seeing a one in a million hand.
Quote: AltutSo WOO has personally been with you 100%....or even 25%....of the time you've gone online to play? If not, then your claims are no more than those who've said they've been to Woodstock. I have saeveral friends who are balls-on players and I've seen them win as well as lose, but there's no way on earth to say how well they do overall. And, how is it you kow for a fact that anoyone else makes a living playing? Are you with THEM 24/7, or does it just make you feel more confident saying you know others who say they win? Either way the online gig's up, and so where's their pension or SS payments? Back to flipping burgers.
The Isle of Man impresses me as much as the local Indian casinos do. You guys trust places like that because you have no other choice but to do so.
I see plenty of posts that ask how/why would an online casino cheat when they supposedly have so much to lose. Well they don't. If they get caught here then there's still a world filled with suckers who'll keep playing because they're addicted to it and will come up with any reason in the book to keep it going.
And that sir, is why you work at Burger King and I do what I do.
Quote: WizardofEnglandJust so you know. Stars is working fine here. Lots of tourneys with overlay. The european pros are EVERYWHERE. I have withdrawn my balance however.
I'm curious to see if there is an overlay in the Sunday Millions tournament tomorrow. There also could be a lot of players that won satellites and registered earlier in the week that are dead money since they can no longer play.
> I've made my money playing online casinos for 7 years now.
Before that I assume you were playing mainly in live games, but as online sites proliferated you found it not just more convenient but more profitable to play online. I recall one famed poker player commenting that because of computers some players have more experience than he did when he was young. I wonder how the convenience of online play has increased the activity of people in Podunk, Idaho as well as the players in Vegas who simply no longer have to trek to a poker room. It must be a tremendous explosion in poker playing to support all these TV shows and newspaper articles that have mushroomed in recent years.
>Sure some are cheats but they are easily avoided.
Now that struck me as an unusual comment and I wonder if you could explore it further. I'm not too certain how easy it is to detect cheating. I recall one TV show that I believe was entitled Takedown and involved an "instructional video" being filmed in a casino. The naive mark later commented that although he had not spotted false shuffles or any specific misdeeds he had an almost immediate suspicion based on an abnormal chip flow. So I do think that experienced people do indeed get a sense that something might be wrong but I'm not sure just how easy it is for the average player to realize something is amiss. As to your "but they are easily avoided" I am thinking that it is more likely that those cheats are easily avoided by knowledgeable and experienced players such as yourself. I would think this "easily avoided" would mean that everyone would be avoiding the site or virtually everyone. So I have some doubts on this issue. It may just be that there are enough suckers out there ... just look at all those emails I get about my millions in a Nigerian bank account. I just wonder about "easily avoided" since it raises the question of why doesn't everyone avoid them then?
>The vast majority and all of the well known software providers run a clean game (i.e non-rigged software).
Yes, I would think so. They know that is the most profitable thing for them to do.
> Now their terms for bonus money might be shady sometimes but they don't cheat.
True... just as some "bricks" casinos offer unclear teaser offers. Whatever unwise marketing gimmicks might exist in regard to super duper signup bonuses and whatever undisclosed delays might be involved, the gambling site is clean, its the marketing department that might be a bit shady.
>I love people who sit there and throw out conspiracy stuff without any real world experience at what they're talking about.
Those few noisy ranters are annoying. Its hard to fathom these "conspiracies" that involve thousands of intelligent and alert people being unknowing cheated over and over again and yet remaining complacent. It just does not compute. Usually evidence, once produced, is clear and convincing.
Quote: JimMorrison
Quote: Altut
So WOO has personally been with you 100%....or even 25%....of the time you've gone online to play? If not, then your claims are no more than those who've said they've been to Woodstock. I have saeveral friends who are balls-on players and I've seen them win as well as lose, but there's no way on earth to say how well they do overall. And, how is it you kow for a fact that anoyone else makes a living playing? Are you with THEM 24/7, or does it just make you feel more confident saying you know others who say they win? Either way the online gig's up, and so where's their pension or SS payments? Back to flipping burgers.
The Isle of Man impresses me as much as the local Indian casinos do. You guys trust places like that because you have no other choice but to do so.
I see plenty of posts that ask how/why would an online casino cheat when they supposedly have so much to lose. Well they don't. If they get caught here then there's still a world filled with suckers who'll keep playing because they're addicted to it and will come up with any reason in the book to keep it going.
And that sir, is why you work at Burger King and I do what I do.
Ditto!
Quote: JimMorrisonI'm curious to see if there is an overlay in the Sunday Millions tournament tomorrow. There also could be a lot of players that won satellites and registered earlier in the week that are dead money since they can no longer play.
There are no americans reg'd. The current prize pool is around $135,200 with 12 hours to go
Quote: FleaStiffI don't really want to contribute to this Topic Drift away from the specific indictments and towards online cheating in general, but I do have a few comments to make.
> I've made my money playing online casinos for 7 years now.
Before that I assume you were playing mainly in live games, but as online sites proliferated you found it not just more convenient but more profitable to play online. I recall one famed poker player commenting that because of computers some players have more experience than he did when he was young. I wonder how the convenience of online play has increased the activity of people in Podunk, Idaho as well as the players in Vegas who simply no longer have to trek to a poker room. It must be a tremendous explosion in poker playing to support all these TV shows and newspaper articles that have mushroomed in recent years.
>Sure some are cheats but they are easily avoided.
Now that struck me as an unusual comment and I wonder if you could explore it further. I'm not too certain how easy it is to detect cheating. I recall one TV show that I believe was entitled Takedown and involved an "instructional video" being filmed in a casino. The naive mark later commented that although he had not spotted false shuffles or any specific misdeeds he had an almost immediate suspicion based on an abnormal chip flow. So I do think that experienced people do indeed get a sense that something might be wrong but I'm not sure just how easy it is for the average player to realize something is amiss. As to your "but they are easily avoided" I am thinking that it is more likely that those cheats are easily avoided by knowledgeable and experienced players such as yourself. I would think this "easily avoided" would mean that everyone would be avoiding the site or virtually everyone. So I have some doubts on this issue. It may just be that there are enough suckers out there ... just look at all those emails I get about my millions in a Nigerian bank account. I just wonder about "easily avoided" since it raises the question of why doesn't everyone avoid them then?
>The vast majority and all of the well known software providers run a clean game (i.e non-rigged software).
Yes, I would think so. They know that is the most profitable thing for them to do.
> Now their terms for bonus money might be shady sometimes but they don't cheat.
True... just as some "bricks" casinos offer unclear teaser offers. Whatever unwise marketing gimmicks might exist in regard to super duper signup bonuses and whatever undisclosed delays might be involved, the gambling site is clean, its the marketing department that might be a bit shady.
>I love people who sit there and throw out conspiracy stuff without any real world experience at what they're talking about.
Those few noisy ranters are annoying. Its hard to fathom these "conspiracies" that involve thousands of intelligent and alert people being unknowing cheated over and over again and yet remaining complacent. It just does not compute. Usually evidence, once produced, is clear and convincing.
The post that you quoted from referred to online casinos NOT poker sites. There is definitely a difference between the two especially when it comes to cheating and scams. I've played live and online poker and also online casinos and sports for over 7 years. When I referred to some being cheats but are easily avoided I was totally talking about online casinos where there are a lot of dodgy casinos that I would never touch. But there are also many, many legit casinos online.
Quote: WizardofEnglandThere are no americans reg'd. The current prize pool is around $135,200 with 12 hours to go
They must have unregistered them. Classy move as usual from Stars. They easily could have let them sit as dead money that inflated the prize pool.
Quote: AltutAnyone who believes online casinos don't cheat people are hopelessly addicted to playing online and don't want it ever to be the way clear thinking people know it is.
Why are people commenting on this if they don't know the difference between an online casino and a poker site?
Quote: WizardofEnglandThere are no americans reg'd. The current prize pool is around $135,200 with 12 hours to go
As someone who is not an online gambler, this comment opened my eyes! You know the nationality of the players? Then the feds could sign up one 'plant' and get a list of all Americans committing that heinous crime of playing poker on line. I would guess that our government has already asked for a list of all the 'criminals' and is likely putting pressure on the poker sites to rat out their customers. My guess is the IRS would love to get that list. As someone who doesn't know, I am going to start a new thread on whether most winners report their winnings to the IRS from online sources.
Quote: SOOPOOAs someone who is not an online gambler, this comment opened my eyes! You know the nationality of the players? Then the feds could sign up one 'plant' and get a list of all Americans committing that heinous crime of playing poker on line. I would guess that our government has already asked for a list of all the 'criminals' and is likely putting pressure on the poker sites to rat out their customers. My guess is the IRS would love to get that list. As someone who doesn't know, I am going to start a new thread on whether most winners report their winnings to the IRS from online sources.
They'd know their nationality and screenname but nothing else. Supposedly when Party settled with the government they turned over records for tax purposes. I have never heard of anything coming from that at all however.
Quote: drwWhy are people commenting on this if they don't know the difference between an online casino and a poker site?
Why is water wet?
Why is the sky blue?
Who is John Galt?
Actually I was thinking some of that myself. But some people just take a side on an issue w/o knowing much about it. You will notice the same kind of behavior from "envrionmentalists" who cannot distinguish between ozone depletion and so-called global warming and the claimed causes and effects of each. Your choices are to educate them briefly and see if it was a simple mis-speak (we are all human) or if they are clueless.
Here is a question. What would the legality/profitability be of setting up a proxy server and PO Box Rental in a small carribean paradise? Let people rent the PO Box as at the UPS Store, then *mail* a check to open a bank account. As stated here, it is not the playing of poker that is illegal it is the electronic money transfer.
Do it all by mail and remain legal, no?
Current players 791, prizepool $158,200 7 and half hours to go.
Place you bets now on the final prize pool. Under/Over $900,000 (fun only)
1 Conspiracy to Violate Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) ISAI SCHEINBERG, RAYMOND BITAR, SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release
2 Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) -PokerStars ISAI SCHEINBERG, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release
3 Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) - Full Tilt Poker RAYMOND BITAR, NELSON BURTNICK, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release
4 Violation of Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGIEA) -Absolute Poker SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release
5 Operation of Illegal Gambling Business -PokerStars ISAI SCHEINBERG, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense
6 Operation of Illegal Gambling Business - Full Tilt Poker RAYMOND BITAR, NELSON BURTNICK, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years ofsupervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense
7 Operation of Illegal Gambling Business -Absolute Poker SCOTT TOM, BRENT BECKLEY, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Five years in prison; fine of $250,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense
8 Commit Bank Fraud and Wire Fraud RAYMOND BITAR, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE Fine of $1,000,000 or twice the gross gain or loss; five years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense
9 Money Laundering Conspiracy ISAI SCHEINBERG, RAYMOND BITAR, BRENT BECKLEY, NELSON BURTNICK, PAUL TATE, RYAN LANG, BRADLEY FRANZEN, IRA RUBIN, CHAD ELIE, JOHN CAMPOS 20 years in prison; fine of $500,000 or twice the amount laundered; three years of supervised release; forfeiture of proceeds of offense
Counts 8 and 9 of the indictment would be the most difficult to argue against in an extradition hearing.
Quote: gofaster87Not sure why you guys keep on arguing over Morrison s claim of making a living on gambling off or online. So what if he does. I know some people that do and others that claim they do but are always broke. More power to him. I do know most that make this claim are full of s**t but there are the disciplined few that do make a good living from it.
Always remember the joke:
Q: How do you get a professional poker player off your porch?
A: Pay him for the pizza.
I remember a woman who sat next to me let her husband quit work to play poker professionally. He was back in 6 weeks!
Quote: AZDuffman
Who is John Galt?
That movie came out Friday and they're saying it might be the worst in 10 years. How do you take a book thats 90% dialog and make a movie out of it.
Quote: AZDuffman
I remember a woman who sat next to me let her husband quit work to play poker professionally. He was back in 6 weeks!
Even the big pro's get broke once in awhile. The fluctuations are devastating. The math says you can theoretically go a lifetime and never get ahead. I remember an interview with Doyle Brunson about 6 years ago, he was thinking of retiring because he hadn't won a big hand in 4 months. He'd never had a losing streak that long in 50 years. Online players think they beat the math with play volume. Broke is broke..
Quote: EvenBobThat movie came out Friday and they're saying it might be the worst in 10 years. How do you take a book thats 90% dialog and make a movie out of it.
I saw and it was a pretty good, independent film. Doing great for pre-sale at Fandango-better still when you consider only on 300 screens. It may make fools of the studio execs who passed on it.
It is not for those who need special effects or have a short attention span. As for "they" if you mean critics that is to be expected given how far-left critics views are.
Part II will be out next April 15th. Can't wait!
Reid Poker Bill to Result in U.S. Online Poker Shutdown09. Dec, 2010
For those of you that have been following recent poker news, the Harry Reid Internet Poker Bill of 2010 is a highly debated topic in the poker world. However, what many people did not realize until the past couple of days is that unless something changes at the last minute, the “legalization of online poker” in the United States will actually result in the final and complete shutdown of all online poker sites for at least the next 15 months.
Harry Reid's Bill will result in a U.S. online poker shutdown for 15 months.
If this bill is passed, all online poker sites that currently serve the U.S. must stop doing so within 30 days. Then, there will be a 15 month waiting period before any site will be granted a license and can start operating online. Currently, only existing casinos, race tracks, and slot machine businesses can run online poker rooms. There has been changes that will allow these sites to buy assets from other sites. Poker sites that are currently operating must wait an additional 24 months before they will be allowed to get a license on their own. (However, if they are purchased by a company with an existing license, they can operate.)
What this boils down to is that if this bill passes, for 16 months afterwards, U.S. players will not be able to play at any online poker site. (The 15 month blackout period begins 30 days after the law is enacted.) There is also an addition wrinkle. States have the option to opt out of this new legislation. For example, if you live in Kentucky and your state opts out, it will be illegal to play online poker in that state.
The status of this bill has been hotly debated, especially in last 24 hours. Reports range from the bill being attached to the Bush Tax Cut Extension Bill to the bill being dead. Soon we will know the truth and whether the bill will indeed be voted on and passed. Should this bill pass, the ironic thing will be that Congress will have successfully killed online poker for the next 16 months by doing what online poker players have wanted since 2006, legalizing online poker.
Quote: AltutQuote: drw
"Why are people commenting on this if they don't know the difference between an online casino and a poker site?"
Here it is again for those who don't want to see it.
Twice you posted this to show you have no reading comprehension? He said online casino and poker site yet twice you've tried to look smart by pointing out the difference between a land based casino and an online. Someone was probably held back a few times in school...
My GOD!!! People don't understand that these poker sites HAVE NO MONEY! There Bank accounts have been frozen! Doesn't matter where you live, what country your from, how many points you have, how many tournament dollars, FPPS, etc... These sites are now WITHOUT MONEY IN THEIR BANKS!
Soon you will see some owner/operators in handcuffs because INTERPOL has been notified to arrest them. And when they find them, they WILL arrest them. They will make bail. They will fight extradition.
Problem, the bank accounts are seized. There's no money to pay players. We are not talking about millions, we are talking about BILLIONS that are on deposit with the poker sites. There's no rake-back money, there's no checks in the mail that will be honored, there's nothing left people!
Quote: buzzpaffAny chance this post from 2 plus 2 is right ??
My GOD!!! People don't understand that these poker sites HAVE NO MONEY! There Bank accounts have been frozen! Doesn't matter where you live, what country your from, how many points you have, how many tournament dollars, FPPS, etc... These sites are now WITHOUT MONEY IN THEIR BANKS!
Soon you will see some owner/operators in handcuffs because INTERPOL has been notified to arrest them. And when they find them, they WILL arrest them. They will make bail. They will fight extradition.
Problem, the bank accounts are seized. There's no money to pay players. We are not talking about millions, we are talking about BILLIONS that are on deposit with the poker sites. There's no rake-back money, there's no checks in the mail that will be honored, there's nothing left people!
Quite a few bank accounts are frozen (75 I believe) but who knows how many more there are. Also who knows if the UK, Isle of Man and Ireland accounts will remain frozen since they can fight that order. From my understanding that's where the bulk of the deposit money is held. PokerStars has been paying non-US players over the weekend so they have access to funds, at the very least their Neteller and Moneybookers accounts which I am sure are substantial. I don't see them becoming insolvent anytime soon but it's obviously possible.
Quote: buzzpaffAny chance this post from 2 plus 2 is right ??
My GOD!!! People don't understand that these poker sites HAVE NO MONEY! There Bank accounts have been frozen! Doesn't matter where you live, what country your from, how many points you have, how many tournament dollars, FPPS, etc... These sites are now WITHOUT MONEY IN THEIR BANKS!
Soon you will see some owner/operators in handcuffs because INTERPOL has been notified to arrest them. And when they find them, they WILL arrest them. They will make bail. They will fight extradition.
Problem, the bank accounts are seized. There's no money to pay players. We are not talking about millions, we are talking about BILLIONS that are on deposit with the poker sites. There's no rake-back money, there's no checks in the mail that will be honored, there's nothing left people!
There is always a chance but I don't believe it. Do you think that a European company is going to let the US governemnt scoop trust money from their own citizens deposits. This is a really complicated issue and will take months to resolve. Jim Morrison posted last night that a Auzie friend of his requested and got paid via Neteller last night. I take that at face value. 6500 odd people had enough confidence they would get paid to buck up for the Sunday Million on stars.
Reminds me of the story about a guy complained how crooked the poker game was on his side of town. Seems like he always started
with top pair but still lost. His buddy said he should come play where he does . They always start him out with 3 of a kind!
Quote: buzzpaff6500 odd people had enough confidence they would get paid to buck up for the Sunday Million on stars.
Reminds me of the story about a guy complained how crooked the poker game was on his side of town. Seems like he always started
with top pair but still lost. His buddy said he should come play where he does . They always start him out with 3 of a kind!
Flip it around Buzz. Would the American government let Holland scoop money in American banks that belonged to American citizens because some Dutch law had been broken.
Quote: AltutAnd it only took you once to exhibit a total lack of understanding (at least that's what I hope it is). An online poker site with or without other gaming IS an online casino, just like a land-based poker room with or without other gaming is a casino. Duh!
Methinks this long overdue but righteous nailing of those 3 sites has taken a toll on you, much the same as it would be to the regulars if they removed slot machines from the local casinos in Las Vegas.
You seriously need help. You are arguing semantics when everyone who has a clue about this industry knows what is meant by online casino, online sportsbook or online poker. Sure if you want to get anal about it you can classify them all as online casino but the people with a clue know there are differences in the terms. I'm not going to argue with someone that I find so intellectually inferior, next time I talk to you it will be me telling you to supersize my shake. Enjoy your life, I know I enjoy mine.
Quote: thecesspitSadly, you listened badly. The government did not say it was illegal for US citizens to play on line poker.
He's way too stupid to understand that.
Quote: AltutI'm all torn up.
By the way, as a self-described "professional online poker player" how's them apples tasting today!
Show me once that I described myself as a "professional online poker player". I'm a professional gambler, poker live and online is a big part of what I do. I played on Full Tilt just a bit ago actually, games were okay. How's Burger King treating you? Do they let you wear the cardboard crown? Amazing how jealous you are.
Quote: AltutAnd neither did I. But I see nothing sad about it. Instead, it's entertaining watching others scampering around with their enlightening hypotheses.
What you call "enlightening hypotheses" is actually sage and experienced advice from people who know much more about the online gaming business than you do and probably every will.
No-one knows how capable a player you are but if you were a capable player then you have wasted the past 5-6 years waiting for your moment to gloat for the rewards of having played those years far outweighs what you have earned in your American bank interest.
You can choose to not believe that but your lack of belief does not reduce any profitable player's bank balance by a single cent. And that's a fact.
Quote: mickpkWhat you call "enlightening hypotheses" is actually sage and experienced advice from people who know much more about the online gaming business than you do and probably every will.
No-one knows how capable a player you are but if you were a capable player then you have wasted the past 5-6 years waiting for your moment to gloat for the rewards of having played those years far outweighs what you have earned in your American bank interest.
You can choose to not believe that but your lack of belief does not reduce any profitable player's bank balance by a single cent. And that's a fact.
Well said. You are so much nicer and more polite than me!
True. Except I think in Louisiana, playing poker online is not illegal. Its the use of a credit card to make bank transfers that is illegal. So I guess endless matchstick games would be legal, but perhaps not quite so profitable for the website owners and not quite so thrilling for the players most likely.Quote: thecesspitSadly, you listened badly. The government did not say it was illegal for US citizens to play on line poker.
I've often thought that a deposit a huge chunk of cash and make no withdrawals site would prosper in the online world. I've felt this would work in both a sports book situation as well as in an online poker situation. The only requirement would be a faith in the casino's year-end PickUp-and-Deliver system. Although I guess it would be even longer than a year, perhaps five year or something.
I don't know why all these experienced bookies never started up a site for "real" gamblers based on the established payment principles and techniques used by bookies. This would have been perfectly lawful under the US laws regarding wire transfers or at the very least it would not have involved any massive laundering schemes or bank fraud or the like.
Quote: AltutYou're right, I'm not an expert about the online stuff
So why did you open your mouth?
Quote:and that's also the reason why I'm not reacting like someone's playing hide-&-go-seek with my blood pressure pills. When the Government told people what the law was, I listened. The ones who REALLY had no clue were the ones running around in circles until they found a way to manipulate and circumvent the system just so they could continue to get their fix. So now, as spoken loud & clear from this "intellectually inferior" individual, I sit back and relax while I watch those of you who couldn't pay attention, run around in circles the other way trying to figure out what'chur gonna do with this new Whopper you've just been handed.
Just speaking for myself here, as someone who plays the online casinos and not the poker sites, I'm only here to call dumb-asses on their dumb-assery.
