GBV
GBV
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 110
July 24th, 2013 at 3:34:51 AM permalink
Quote: teliot

As usual, your advice and wisdom is invaluable. For 7 years I've been doing this type of work through my auditing service, Certified Fair Gambling, and these points never occurred to me.




7 years is about half the time I've been involved with online gambling on a professional level.

If you actually understood what I wrote, then you are saying that you are a crook.

Here's how the audit scam works: the auditor receives data from gambling website, in exchange for payment for their services. The auditor gives the casino a clean bill of health. The casino then publishes the audit so that potential customers believe the game is honest.

There's an obvious conflict of interest here. In many cases I suspect no actual audit takes place and money changes hands.

If auditing does occur it is no protection from cheating even if it is honest. Say, a blackjack game is listed with a payback 99.5%. The auditor looks at the data, determines the numbers are roughly where they should be. This, however, is very far from saying the game is honest.
Say that casino cheats high-rollers, or AP's. The numbers won't significantly affect the payback % below the level of normal expected fluctuation, however millions of dollars are being stolen. All you have to do to get past an audit is think of a way to cheat which won't show up in the tests you are asking that person to perform-that is really trivial.

If this is ever uncovered the auditor will say "I was only asked to check the payback %, I never said the game was honest". Of course, the only reason they were paid by the casino in the first place is to make gamblers think the game was honest. The whole system is bent, an informal conspiracy to cheat online casino gamblers, one that Eliot Jacobson makes money by perpetuating.
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 2268
July 24th, 2013 at 6:37:31 AM permalink
Quote: GBV

The whole system is bent, an informal conspiracy to cheat online casino gamblers, one that Eliot Jacobson makes money by perpetuating.

You really know your stuff. I am sure you have enlightened many people on my character with your post.
Poetry website: www.totallydisconnected.com
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
July 24th, 2013 at 6:53:36 AM permalink
Sigh. Teliot is being sarcastic.

I deal with auditors regularly in my line of work, and man, they are pains in the ass. Mind you, the auditors I work with usually come from Deloitte, Price-Waterhouse, or E&Y, but they are auditors nonetheless. Most auditors are young, fresh, accounting graduates who are not soured from bias and are not susceptible to bribes. Auditing is very hard work with tons of hours. I'm glad that I avoided that path in my career.

The software that they use also is capable of finding bias in the data given to them. Auditors typically find out which software the company is using and designs tests that prevent the company from delivering a biased set. That said, a smart operator can get around this by delivering an unbiased set. The accounting company can get around this by asking for direct access to the production database and order past sets of data. This is typical. In my most recent audit that I dealth with, the accounting company delivered a script that they ran directly against the production database which would have been very difficult to trick.

Now, of course, if you elect to play at a casino that was audited by "GBV's accounting service" I would be suspect. But if the casino was audited by a big firm with a reputation, it should be quite trustworthy. Companies who perform audits can be held accountable if their audits are faulty.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
GBV
GBV
Joined: Jun 12, 2012
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 110
July 24th, 2013 at 7:16:52 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Sigh. Teliot is being sarcastic.

I deal with auditors regularly in my line of work, and man, they are pains in the ass. Mind you, the auditors I work with usually come from Deloitte, Price-Waterhouse, or E&Y, but they are auditors nonetheless. Most auditors are young, fresh, accounting graduates who are not soured from bias and are not susceptible to bribes. Auditing is very hard work with tons of hours. I'm glad that I avoided that path in my career.

The software that they use also is capable of finding bias in the data given to them. Auditors typically find out which software the company is using and designs tests that prevent the company from delivering a biased set. That said, a smart operator can get around this by delivering an unbiased set. The accounting company can get around this by asking for direct access to the production database and order past sets of data. This is typical. In my most recent audit that I dealth with, the accounting company delivered a script that they ran directly against the production database which would have been very difficult to trick.

Now, of course, if you elect to play at a casino that was audited by "GBV's accounting service" I would be suspect. But if the casino was audited by a big firm with a reputation, it should be quite trustworthy. Companies who perform audits can be held accountable if their audits are faulty.



Utter bullshit.

Here's a list of recent, major accountancy scandals:

MicroStrategy 2000[17] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Michael Saylor
Unify Corporation 2000[18] Deloitte & Touche United States
Computer Associates 2000[19] KPMG United States Sanjay Kumar
Lernout & Hauspie 2000[citation needed] KPMG Belgium Fictitious transactions in Korea and improper accounting methodologies elsewhere
Xerox 2000[20] KPMG United States Falsifying financial results
One.Tel 2001[21] Ernst & Young Australia
Enron 2001[22] Arthur Andersen United States Jeffrey Skilling, Kenneth Lay, Andrew Fastow
Swissair 2001 McKinsey & Company Switzerland
Adelphia 2002[23] Deloitte & Touche United States John Rigas
AOL 2002[20] Ernst & Young United States Inflated sales
Bristol-Myers Squibb 2002[20][24] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Inflated revenues
CMS Energy 2002[20][25] Arthur Andersen United States Round trip trades
Duke Energy 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Dynegy 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Round trip trades
El Paso Corporation 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Freddie Mac 2002[26] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Understated earnings
Global Crossing 2002[20] Arthur Andersen Bermuda Network capacity swaps to inflate revenues
Halliburton 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Improper booking of cost overruns
Homestore.com 2002[20][27] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Improper booking of sales
ImClone Systems 2002[28] KPMG United States Samuel D. Waksal
Kmart 2002[20][29] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Misleading accounting practices
Merck & Co. 2002[20] Pricewaterhouse Coopers United States Recorded co-payments that were not collected
Merrill Lynch 2002[30] Deloitte & Touche United States Conflict of interest
Mirant 2002[20] KPMG United States Overstated assets and liabilities
Nicor 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Overstated assets, understated liabilities
Peregrine Systems 2002[20] KPMG United States Overstated sales
Qwest Communications 2002[20] 1999, 2000, 2001 Arthur Andersen 2002 October KPMG United States Inflated revenues
Reliant Energy 2002[20] Deloitte & Touche United States Round trip trades
Sunbeam 2002[31] Arthur Andersen United States
Tyco International 2002[20] PricewaterhouseCoopers Bermuda Improper accounting, Dennis Kozlowski
WorldCom 2002[20] Arthur Andersen United States Overstated cash flows, Bernard Ebbers
Royal Ahold 2003[32] Deloitte & Touche United States Inflating promotional allowances
Parmalat 2003[33][34] Grant Thornton SpA Italy Falsified accounting documents, Calisto Tanzi
HealthSouth Corporation 2003[35] Ernst & Young United States Richard M. Scrushy
Nortel 2003[36] Deloitte & Touche Canada Distributed ill advised corporate bonuses to top 43 managers
Chiquita Brands International 2004[37] Ernst & Young United States Illegal payments
AIG 2004[38] PricewaterhouseCoopers United States Accounting of structured financial deals
Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC 2008[39] Friehling & Horowitz United States Massive Ponzi scheme.[40]
Anglo Irish Bank 2008[41] Ernst & Young Ireland Anglo Irish Bank hidden loans controversy
Satyam Computer Services 2009[42] PricewaterhouseCoopers India Falsified accounts
Lehman Brothers 2010[43] Ernst & Young United States Failure to disclose Repo 105 transactions to investors
Sino-Forest Corporation 2011[44] Ernst & Young Canada-China
Olympus Corporation 2011[45] Ernst & Young Japan tobashi using acquisitions
Autonomy Corporation

No big names in accountancy there, obviously. We can trust the big firms, as we can trust the banks. I have a bridge to sell you if you are interested. Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Now, given that these scandals were only uncovered by governments in countries with effective law enforcement, with access to limitless resources, what is the chance that online casinos, which are not regulated to any real extent and beyond the jurisdiction of any effective law enforcement, are also working scams? You'd have to be born yesterday to believe they are clean.

Your comment that the companies can be held to account is just fucking stupid. Who is going to hold an online casino to account?
m1918
m1918
Joined: Jul 18, 2013
  • Threads: 1
  • Posts: 2
July 24th, 2013 at 7:26:43 AM permalink
thanks for your replies, it is interesting reading.

ewjones80, all the details of my hands are recorded, although until recently it was only the stake and result. I also believe it is a continuous shuffle machine rather than a 6 deck shoe.

It is a daunting task to analyze 30k hands, especially all of the dealer's hits, which are simply unbelievable. I think I will just take Soopoo's advice and try Bovada
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
July 24th, 2013 at 7:35:14 AM permalink
Thanks for the list. Most of these occcurred before Sarbanes-Oxley was passed in 2003. After 2003, it became more difficult to publish false results. Auditors are only responsible to account for current regulations and laws.

Banks are trustworthy in Canada. They're not trustworthy in the US due to the loopholes in regulations that allow them to operate in a murky area.

That said, I wouldn't trust ANY online casino, but i would have a level of trust of casinos who were audited by worthy companies.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
binary128
binary128
Joined: Nov 5, 2011
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 82
July 24th, 2013 at 3:53:36 PM permalink
Quote: GBV

The whole system is bent, an informal conspiracy to cheat online casino gamblers, one that Eliot Jacobson makes money by perpetuating.


Woops. If you want to have a go at Eliot, I'm afraid you'll have to get by me first.

Chris
4ofaKind
4ofaKind
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
  • Threads: 11
  • Posts: 221
July 24th, 2013 at 5:06:00 PM permalink
Quote: GBV

Eliot Jacobson makes money by perpetuating.



Although you bring up interesting topics that could add to the mystery of how online gaming actually operates; trashing Eliot Jacobson, one of only three technical gaming specialists I know of not afraid to back facts, is a big mistake.

Eliot Jacobson, Christopher Colby, and the Wizard, are important allies to have in the war to fix online gaming. Online gaming, a multi-billion industry still operating unenforced is still seriously broken.
teliot
teliot
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 41
  • Posts: 2268
July 24th, 2013 at 9:20:50 PM permalink
Dear 4ofaKind & Binary, thanks for your your support, but let me remind you, I am the World's Greatest Gaming Authority.
Poetry website: www.totallydisconnected.com
tringlomane
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
  • Threads: 8
  • Posts: 6272
July 24th, 2013 at 9:45:25 PM permalink
Quote: teliot

Dear 4ofaKind & Binary, thanks for your your support, but let me remind you, I am the World's Greatest Gaming Authority.



Quite a jab, but I couldn't help but chuckle with the animations. And why the hell is "Bill Spivey" playing in the Excalibur? lol

  • Jump to: