BitCoin
Rebuke for the misquote. Mostly forgiven because you made it obvious.Quote: darkozAbove quote adjusted by me on purpose to make a point!!!
What I would do if writing this kind of misquote is something like
Quote: What Darkoz Might have saidAbove quote adjusted by me on purpose to make another point!!!
Quote: OnceDearRebuke for the misquote.
Mike says we are not allowed to do that even if we announce that we're doing it.
I do know that.Quote: EvenBobMike says we are not allowed to do that even if we announce that we're doing it.
Mike might over-rule me and I've no issue with that. But I made the rebuke penalty as being proportional to the offence, as I saw it.
It's no secret that in some cases I'm less inclined to impose suspensions and in some cases more so. Wizard mostly accepts my rulings, but if you wish to see a harsher penalty, feel free to complain to Mike.
Here's a precedent for moderation in moderation
If you want more harsh moderation, you might get it. Me. I think we are all adults here and moderation should be in moderation.
Quote: OnceDearI do know that.
Mike might over-rule me and I've no issue with that. But I made the rebuke penalty as being proportional to the offence, as I saw it.
It's no secret that in some cases I'm less inclined to impose suspensions and in some cases more so. Wizard mostly accepts my rulings, but if you wish to see a harsher penalty, feel free to complain to Mike.
Here's a precedent for moderation in moderation
If you want more harsh moderation, you might get it. Me. I think we are all adults here and moderation should be in moderation.
EB is just sore that the "corrected quote" is actually dead on as far as Bitcoin reality.
I will keep in mind your better example of how to alter quotes.
There was no attempt here to misconstrue what EB said in a misleading attempt. It should be obvious what the point was.
If it's suspension worthy fine. I didn't do it accidentally as in the above example, that is clear although I should have done it as you suggested
Quote: EvenBobDarkoz and Axel crack me up. Their argument for when they get confused is always "You don't know how Bitcoin works." when they are the ones who obviously don't know how it works. All they know is buy it low sell it high and coconuts can be a currency if somebody says it is.
Well that accusation is easily provable with just a few questions.
I will start.
EB, explain how Blockchain technology is utilized by Bitcoin
(If you can't answer, then you don't understand how Bitcoin works)
Quote: EvenBobDarkoz and Axel crack me up. Their argument for when they get confused is always "You don't know how Bitcoin works." when they are the ones who obviously don't know how it works. All they know is buy it low sell it high and coconuts can be a currency if somebody says it is.
Bob, I generally agree with you about the weaknesses of BTC as a currency, but for many that just isn’t relevant. Step daughter bought dogecoin at a penny and sold at a nickel. If she put $200 in she now has $1000. She buys custom T shirts that she wouldn’t have if she didn’t invest in dogecoin. I doubt she has the slightest idea what a ‘blockchain’ is nor does she care. My son has 1/2 BTC at a cost of $5k. It’s now worth around $20k. If he needs MONEY he can convert the BTC easily into DOLLARS. Easily! So, yes, it in and of itself might never be easily used like a currency. But if it takes him an hour to turn it into dollars, it served its purpose to him.
Come to think of it, my stocks are similar. I may say ‘I’m worth $XXXX but I only am worth that if I sell the stocks. And turn them into a currency if needed.
Please quote where I am confused and then give me facts as to why that's the case, not just someone's or your opinion. I suggest you re-read some of the outlandish statements that make it clear you dont know enough to be making any comments about BTC that should be taken seriously and that you really dont know how it works, especially since you have been horribly wrong for the past 7ish years regarding BTC.Quote: EvenBobDarkoz and Axel crack me up. Their argument for when they get confused is always "You don't know how Bitcoin works." when they are the ones who obviously don't know how it works. All they know is buy it low sell it high and coconuts can be a currency if somebody says it is.
Your comment about someone being an idiot for buying a car with tuna packets/ BTC or whatever made absolutely no sense along with your other car-buying scenario.
I don't claim BTC is a good or bad investment, I dont claim it's going up or down, I don't claim it is without issues. I do know it has some benefits and it is useful. It would have been useful for you back when you were trying to get money on and off Bovada and you would have made a killing on the upward movement in the meantime had you kept stored in BTC.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1226598.shtml
Quote: gamerfreakChina has shut down an estimated 90% of bitcoin miners in the country
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1226598.shtml
Wait until they execute a few miners. some folks are predicting sub30,000 by the end of the day. I personally think it will be there by the end of the week.
Quote: billryanWait until they execute a few miners. some folks are predicting sub30,000 by the end of the day. I personally think it will be there by the end of the week.
I feel like your animosity towards Bitcoin has made you put blinders onto it's value.
I imagine if any business with manufacturing in China suddenly had it's plants shut down the price of their value would go down.
Children's toys are notorious for being "made in China". If China suddenly shut down 90% of toy production, certainly Hasbro and Mattel, etc would have negative impact on their stock. Laughing at Hasbro and Mattel as "bad investment"?
At any rate, this next week now sets up an interesting scenario. Your prophecy about sub-30 will be here by next Monday. Kudos to you if you predict correctly.
However it will further prove how wrong you are about Bitcoin if it doesn't.
Quote: darkozI feel like your animosity towards Bitcoin has made you put blinders onto it's value.
I imagine if any business with manufacturing in China suddenly had it's plants shut down the price of their value would go down.
Children's toys are notorious for being "made in China". If China suddenly shut down 90% of toy production, certainly Hasbro and Mattel, etc would have negative impact on their stock. Laughing at Hasbro and Mattel as "bad investment"?
At any rate, this next week now sets up an interesting scenario. Your prophecy about sub-30 will be here by next Monday. Kudos to you if you predict correctly.
However it will further prove how wrong you are about Bitcoin if it doesn't.
And this is the guy who insists EB doesn't know what he is talking about.
By the way- both Mattel and Hasbro are selling for about 80% of what they did five years ago so yes, they have been bad investments.
The market has essentially doubled while those two stocks have suffered tremendous losses. Would you call that a good investment?
I'd owned both for years but sold them when it became obvious the last administration's China policy was irrational. Collecting billions in tariffs from American companies while claiming China was actually paying them was a bridge too far for me.
bitcoin has declined from $62,000 to $32,000 since I said it was time to take profits. If it goes below $30,000 or goes up to $40,0000 doesn't change that. It was a horrible investment at $60,000 and isn't much better at $35,000. I still won't buy on the dips.
Even Ray Charles can see the ominous Death Cross looming in front of it.
If Saudi Arabia was to shut down its oil sales- would the price go up or down?
Decreased supply usually means increased demand so prices move up. In this case, decreased supply seems to indicate decreased demand.
Imagine Tesla announced today it would stop building new cars. Would the prices for the existing models go up or down? It's economics 101.
Quote: billryanDO thinks the price of bc has gone down because China is shutting down production.
If Saudi Arabia was to shut down its oil sales- would the price go up or down?
Decreased supply usually means increased demand so prices move up. In this case, decreased supply seems to indicate decreased demand.
Imagine Tesla announced today it would stop building new cars. Would the prices for the existing models go up or down? It's economics 101.
And again, this is the problem.
You simply don't understand how Bitcoin works.
The mining is what validates transactions. Without Mining the Bitcoin isn't just scarce, it's unusable
But Bill is a guy who follows EB, an avowed Roulette system winner.
I'm surprised Bill would hitch his pony to a guy who claims to have beaten Roulette but they do seem to have similar financial blinders on
Quote: billryanAnd this is the guy who insists EB doesn't know what he is talking about.
By the way- both Mattel and Hasbro are selling for about 80% of what they did five years ago so yes, they have been bad investments.
The market has essentially doubled while those two stocks have suffered tremendous losses. Would you call that a good investment?
Hasbro stock suffering tremendous losses in last five years?
Bill, do you just assume no one has google?
This is why it's difficult to believe what you say about Bitcoin. Consistently wrong!
Hasbro stock June 2021 -93
So while the market has soared since June 2017, Hasbro is down 20%.
The Dow broke 20K in June 2017. Today it is at 33K
Quote: billryan
By the way- both Mattel and Hasbro are selling for about 80% of what they did five years ago so yes, they have been bad investments.
The market has essentially doubled while those two stocks have suffered tremendous losses.
Quote: billryanHasbro stock June 2017- $111
Hasbro stock June 2021 -93
So while the market has soared since June 2017, Hasbro is down 20%.
The Dow broke 20K in June 2017. Today it is at 33K
Changing from five years to four years (in order to find a relatively high point) and changing your statement from 80% losses to 20% losses.
And the graph below shows a relative consistency in the stock price. Not exactly "tremendous losses".
I wonder how your conflicting statements would sound in a jury trial?
Quote: SOOPOOAnd turn them into a currency if needed.
And you know why you do that? Because they are NOT a currency. Bitcoin is NOT a currency.
Quote: EvenBobAnd you know why you do that? Because they are NOT a currency. Bitcoin is NOT a currency.
You should say it three times.
Bitcoin just died today but it may take a while for the corpse to quit twitching. China is the first mega power to come to its senses and realize what a crap show Bitcoin is and it's time to get rid of it. Wonder what El Salvador thinks of this move. LOL
"With Monday’s declines, Bitcoin is down about 50% from its April 52-week high of almost $65,000.
What comes next is, frankly, anyone’s guess. Bitcoin is volatile and the lack of fundamentals makes it difficult to predict what comes next. Buckle up, a bumpy ride is coming.'
Quote: EvenBob'China announced on Monday that it summoned officials from its biggest banks to a meeting to reiterate a ban on providing cryptocurrency services. It’s the latest sign that China plan to do whatever it takes to close any loopholes left in crypto trading." For those who don't know China is responsible for most new Bitcoin production. They are apparently sick of wasting the electricity.
Bitcoin just died today but it may take a while for the corpse to quit twitching. China is the first mega power to come to its senses and realize what a crap show Bitcoin is and it's time to get rid of it. Wonder what El Salvador thinks of this move. LOL
"With Monday’s declines, Bitcoin is down about 50% from its April 52-week high of almost $65,000.
What comes next is, frankly, anyone’s guess. Bitcoin is volatile and the lack of fundamentals makes it difficult to predict what comes next. Buckle up, a bumpy ride is coming.'
Yes, China was so threatened by Beanie Babies and Elvis plates they did the same thing when they were big...Not!
Quote: darkoz
Yes, China was so threatened by Beanie Babies
It didn't take jillions of dollars in electricity to make a Beanie Baby like it does to make a Bitcoin. China is responsible for making more than 90% of all Bitcoins and because they see no future for Bitcoin, they pulled the plug. No more production, and all Chinese banks have been warned that Bitcoin is dead to them. Who could see this coming, wait a minute. I saw it coming way back in 2014.
Quote: EvenBob'
Bitcoin just died today but it may take a while for the corpse to quit twitching. China is the first mega power to come to its senses and realize what a crap show Bitcoin is and it's time to get rid of it. Wonder what El Salvador thinks of this move. LOL
No, China doesn't want their citizens to have access to Bitcoin because the Chinese government can't control it. Ask Jack Ma about how the government acts towards businesses that it can't control.
Quote: billryanDO thinks the price of bc has gone down because China is shutting down production.
If Saudi Arabia was to shut down its oil sales- would the price go up or down?
Decreased supply usually means increased demand so prices move up. In this case, decreased supply seems to indicate decreased demand.
Imagine Tesla announced today it would stop building new cars. Would the prices for the existing models go up or down? It's economics 101.
What decreased supply are you talking about?
Bitcoins are mined at a fixed interval regardless of how many people are mining.
This just means a bigger piece of the pie for bitcoin miners outside of China, not less bitcoins being mined.
Quote: gamerfreakWhat decreased supply are you talking about?
Bitcoins are mined at a fixed interval regardless of how many people are mining.
This just means a bigger piece of the pie for bitcoin miners outside of China, not less bitcoins being mined.
As Axel says, the naysayers on here mostly don't understand how Bitcoin works.
Let me be perfectly open here. I thought much the same as Bill and EB on the subject. My son begged me to do some research into Crypto.
It was that research that made me see it in a different light. Bitcoin made me think of Pixels and Alex Tew's ridiculous MillionDollarHomePage came to mind.
But Bitcoin is different and until Bill and EB stop imagining what they think it is and research what it truly is we are going to see these really bad arguments coming from them
Quote: darkozChanging from five years to four years (in order to find a relatively high point) and changing your statement from 80% losses to 20% losses.
And the graph below shows a relative consistency in the stock price. Not exactly "tremendous losses".
I wonder how your conflicting statements would sound in a jury trial?
Could someone please explain to DO that a stock that is selling for 80% of what it once sold for has suffered a 20% loss.
I'm rather surprised this needs to be said, but little about this forum should surprise me, I suppose.
Quote: billryanQuote: darkozChanging from five years to four years (in order to find a relatively high point) and changing your statement from 80% losses to 20% losses.
And the graph below shows a relative consistency in the stock price. Not exactly "tremendous losses".
I wonder how your conflicting statements would sound in a jury trial?
Could someone please explain to DO that a stock that is selling for 80% of what it once sold for has suffered a 20% loss.
I'm rather surprised this needs to be said, but little about this forum should surprise me, I suppose.
No one has to explain the math to me.
Obviously I misunderstood your point. That's my bad. I thought you were saying they dropped 80%.
Regardless, you said they dropped 20% in five years. That's just plain wrong. They are trading about the same as five years ago.
Oh, you meant four years ago? Mistake? Yeah we all make them.
Quote: gamerfreakWhat decreased supply are you talking about?
Bitcoins are mined at a fixed interval regardless of how many people are mining.
This just means a bigger piece of the pie for bitcoin miners outside of China, not less bitcoins being mined.
Really? So you think the rate of production is the same today as it was last month? China produced about 2/3s of all bitcoins last year. Today they are producing zero. Several American states and cities have banned mining, but you think the production rate hasn't gone down? All 21 million plus coins will still end up being produced, but the production pace has certainly been affected, with the immediate result being less supply today.
Unless you think some network swooped in and is mining today what the Chinese would have been before the crackdown.
Quote: billryanReally? So you think the rate of production is the same today as it was last month? China produced about 2/3s of all bitcoins last year. Today they are producing zero. Several American states and cities have banned mining, but you think the production rate hasn't gone down? All 21 million plus coins will still end up being produced, but the production pace has certainly been affected, with the immediate result being less supply today.
Unless you think some network swooped in and is mining today what the Chinese would have been before the crackdown.
Yes, really. What you are describing is completely inaccurate and not how Bitcoin works.
The bitcoin network adjusts the difficulty of mining a block as the hash power of the network changes.
1 block will be mined every 10 minutes and reward a fixed amount of BTC regardless of how many people are mining.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/difficulty-cryptocurrencies.asp
Quote: gamerfreakYes, really. What you are describing is completely inaccurate and not how Bitcoin works.
The bitcoin network adjusts the difficulty of mining a block as the hash power of the network changes.
1 block will be mined every 10 minutes and reward a fixed amount of BTC regardless of how many people are mining.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/difficulty-cryptocurrencies.asp
Really? So the Chinese national who formerly had 300,000 computers mining bitcoin but now has them sitting fallow didn't slow production down? That goes against the gist of about a dozen articles I've read in the last week.
I realize everyone is a self-proclaimed expert on this, even those who read a Wikipedia entry but I'm old-fashioned. I tend to put importance on things like people's education and practical work experience. When a trusted friend with an MBA from Wharton says something, I tend to trust them more than your usual internet expert.
What you seem to be saying is losing 65% of the miners won't affect production schedules. Do I have that right?
Quote: billryanWhat you seem to be saying is losing 65% of the miners won't affect production schedules. Do I have that right?
Yes, exactly. I already explained it, so check out the investopedia article I linked if you are still confused.
Feel free to share any article/website that refutes that.
I’m hearing about people setting up these huge warehouses simply to mine bitcoin.
No good.
I’d say the same about the water in Lake Mead. Crack down on these farmers who are planting almond trees in the desert. Too much water usage. Then we can start talking about all these pools being built, not to mention lush landscaping. We are in the desert. It’s desert. Use what’s here.
Quote: billryanSo when CNBC states that China has caused the bitcoin hash rate to fall by 3/4s, it doesn't mean that the production is reduced?
Correct!
With the reduced hash rate, the difficulty of mining a block is also reduced. The network self regulates so that 1 block is mined every 10 minutes regardless of the total hash rate of the network.
Quote: gamerfreakCorrect!
With the reduced hash rate, the difficulty of mining a block is also reduced. The network self regulates so that 1 block is mined every 10 minutes regardless of the total hash rate of the network.
Gamerfreak
Am I correct that as the hash rate is reduced, and the difficulty of mining a block is also reduced, the result is that blocks become "easier" to mine, and that is the reason the price has dropped?
I know when Bitcoin was in its infancy miners could earn several blocks for the same amount of work that mining just one block takes today.
In essence, the easier the work, (Mining) the less the value?
That's the way I understand it. But as Bill likes to say, I am mathematically challenged.
Quote: darkozGamerfreak
Am I correct that as the hash rate is reduced, and the difficulty of mining a block is also reduced, the result is that blocks become "easier" to mine, and that is the reason the price has dropped?
I know when Bitcoin was in its infancy miners could earn several blocks for the same amount of work that mining just one block takes today.
In essence, the easier the work, (Mining) the less the value?
That's the way I understand it. But as Bill likes to say, I am mathematically challenged.
The reduced hash rate means that a smaller number of miners are splitting the same reward.
I am not sure how that effects the market. Generally I wouldn’t expect the network hash rate to have a huge effect on the price of BTC. If I had to guess the recent price dip has more to do with all the other implications of China banning it rather than the reduced hash rate.
Quote: gamerfreakThe reduced hash rate means that a smaller number of miners are splitting the same reward.
I am not sure how that effects the market. Generally I wouldn’t expect the network hash rate to have a huge effect on the price of BTC. If I had to guess the recent price dip has more to do with all the other implications of China banning it rather than the reduced hash rate.
Right, but miners are specifically paid in Bitcoin.
Smaller number of miners splitting the same reward means less miners earning.
I'm not saying it's the full cause of the drop in prices but I believe it has a definite effect.
Quote: EvenBobDown exactly $9,000 from a week ago today. The Far East is just waking up, let's see what they do with it when they see it's $31,600. The Death Cross thing is a pretty big deal because I think it's the third time it's happened.
You mean since it was $1 in 2009?
Bob, I'm still waiting.Quote: AxelWolfPlease quote where I am confused and then give me facts as to why that's the case, not just someone's or your opinion. I suggest you re-read some of the outlandish statements that make it clear you dont know enough to be making any comments about BTC that should be taken seriously and that you really dont know how it works, especially since you have been horribly wrong for the past 7ish years regarding BTC.
Your comment about someone being an idiot for buying a car with tuna packets/ BTC or whatever made absolutely no sense along with your other car-buying scenario.
I don't claim BTC is a good or bad investment, I dont claim it's going up or down, I don't claim it is without issues. I do know it has some benefits and it is useful. It would have been useful for you back when you were trying to get money on and off Bovada and you would have made a killing on the upward movement in the meantime had you kept stored in BTC.
Quote: AxelWolfBob, I'm still waiting.
The waiting will be over soon, the country with the second largest economy in the world doesn't stop Bitcoin mining and ban it from their entire country without it having major repercussions. Be patient. Why, this is almost as big a story as what El Salvador is doing with Bitcoin. LOL
Quote: EvenBobThe waiting will be over soon, the country with the second largest economy in the world doesn't stop Bitcoin mining and ban it from their entire country without it having major repercussions. Be patient. Why, this is almost as big a story as what El Salvador is doing with Bitcoin. LOL
I wish EB wasn't in his eighties.
If he was in his fifties then we could enjoy thirty or forty more years of him saying Bitcoin is dying.
As it is, the real question is which will outlive the other?
EB or Bitcoin?
"All money needs to do is provide a stable index of value for any and all goods available on the market. Currencies such as the US dollar are incredibly good at this, they also act as legal tender backed up by central banks and treasuries. Bitcoin is completely incapable of competing with well-established fiat currencies mainly because its owners prefer to hoard rather than spend, and this is the primary reason why in the last couple of months its value has soared up almost endlessly. Unfortunately, until goods start to get valued in Bitcoin directly rather than in other currencies then it will never be able to become a currency."
Real money is always valued by what it can buy today.
How many boxes of corn flakes, gallons of gas, packs of
cigarettes, bottles vodka can I buy with this currency.
That's how we determine how much the US dollar is worth.
This is constantly tested around the world by millions of
transactions a day. There is no such test for Bitcoin.
We only know how much Bitcoin is worth by translating it
into a form of real currency. Just like we do with any other collectibles
like comic books or baseball cards. We have no idea how many
baseball cards it would take to buy a carton of cigarettes
until we first translate the cards into a real currency. Bitcoin is
no different. Bitcoin will never be used to determine the value of
things we buy everyday because nobody knows what's the value
of a Bitcoin is. And never will because it will always have to be
tied to a real currency which makes it worthless as a currency itself.
. " when they are the ones who obviously don't know how it works."Quote: EvenBobThe waiting will be over soon, the country with the second largest economy in the world doesn't stop Bitcoin mining and ban it from their entire country without it having major repercussions. Be patient. Why, this is almost as big a story as what El Salvador is doing with Bitcoin. LOL
I'm waiting for you to quote what I said that was inaccurate regarding how BTC works.
All the rats are jumping off the boat.
“Thirty-thousand dollars intraday, look out, gotta hold. Maybe the buy point,” Cramer said, referring to bitcoin’s psychological region of support. “I’m not going there, sold almost all of my bitcoin. Don’t need it.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mad-money-host-jim-cramer-034022648.html
Quote: EvenBob
All the rats are jumping off the boat.
Should we start keeping count of all the premature predictions EB gets wrong?
Quote: EvenBob‘Mad Money’ Host Jim Cramer Says He’s Sold Most of His Bitcoin Following China Crackdown
All the rats are jumping off the boat.
“Thirty-thousand dollars intraday, look out, gotta hold. Maybe the buy point,” Cramer said, referring to bitcoin’s psychological region of support. “I’m not going there, sold almost all of my bitcoin. Don’t need it.”
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mad-money-host-jim-cramer-034022648.html
You gotta love it.
Financial expert Jim Cramer saw Bitcoin at thirty thousand and sold. Now it's at $32,000.
Lots of great advice there, LMAO
Quote: darkozYou gotta love it.
Financial expert Jim Cramer saw Bitcoin at thirty thousand and sold. Now it's at $32,000.
Your inability to 'get it' has arrived.
