request for a video of dice influence

Quote:

But please do me a favor...allow me to stay or just say we don't want you here....

DI is to craps as an STD is to love.

Just sayin'.

Just this weekend, I had myself and just one other player at the SouthPoint, with each of us with over $2,000 on the rail and $300 to $500 action each, and they were calling rolls short that were clearly not short while a bunch of suits showed up.

I simply passed the dice rather than to argue about what "hitting the back wall" means to them as I chose to do last time around.

It's not just the players who are doubtful that dice hitting the back wall are all random.

It can be fun, at times, just poking at the spots that make them generate noise about how they allow you to shoot the dice.

Quote: petroglyph

I can see how you could dual purpose that in no time at all : )

I can just see a giant fan base haranguing you with questions:

Q) What set did you use?

A) Dining room

petroglyph, You can see the bottom faces on the release. the bottom faces are 1 (L) 2(R) So the top faces showing are 6 -5 . The 6 stayed on top the whole time.

actually that compression is too grainy to see the bottom faces. The set is 6-5 top, 5-6 facing me.

The best thing. Don't argue with these people. Simply beat the game without ever touching the dice.

Quote: Ahigh

Just this weekend, I had myself and just one other player at the SouthPoint, with each of us with over $2,000 on the rail and $300 to $500 action each, and they were calling rolls short that were clearly not short while a bunch of suits showed up.

I simply passed the dice rather than to argue about what "hitting the back wall" means to them as I chose to do last time around.

It's not just the players who are doubtful that dice hitting the back wall are all random.

It can be fun, at times, just poking at the spots that make them generate noise about how they allow you to shoot the dice.

Ahigh, Do you feel you get no rolled more often at the smaller joints or is it the same thing at the mega casinos too?

Quote: nickolay411

petroglyph, You can see the bottom faces on the release. the bottom faces are 1 (L) 2(R) So the top faces showing are 6 -5 . The 6 stayed on top the whole time.

actually that compression is too grainy to see the bottom faces. The set is 6-5 top, 5-6 facing me.

I started my first sentence with a smiley face, the chronology of the humor of my post made perfect sense to me?

The shot looked great . Then <snip> you said " An inch thick cutting board " which is where I came up with my riotous " I can see how you could dual purpose that in no time at all : ) ", meaning [at least in my mind] a "play on" the fact you were using kitchen instruments to makeshift a quick practice table, which is where I also [brilliantly I thought] came up with the Q & A joke about being quizzed by fans asking:

Q) What set did you use?

A) Dining room

When asked "what set" did you use, the punchline was "dining room" set, not knifes and forks mind you, but the thread of humor seemed obvious at the time.

If my career as a comic is going to take off, more people are going to have to "get" my jokes?

Good looking shot Nickolay, I like the no spin, dead drop landing as well. The set up you were using does represent casino conditions IMO, as it is the shot that was being represented in your video, not indicating that the practice rig was casino quality. I understood what you were showing. The cutting board doesn't matter. That throw will work great on a table with similar characteristics, again IMO.

ps; I still contend the "play on" of dual purposing of a practice rig back to kitchen was funny, but I was in a mental state that supported humor at the time.

I would like to make a trip up to Vegas when I get back from where I am now. The heat does worry me some as I drive a lumbering, antiquated Ford pick up truck. I consider apprehension about crossing the Mohave desert on possibly the hottest day of the year [mid August] to be a rational concern?

Ohman that flew way over my head. Very clever petroglyph. And thank you for the kind words.

The shot is based off this scientific paper. The bottom face on the set tends to stay bottom with a limited amount of bounces and tumbles. So in theory it's better to set the top faces for the desired outcome. That alone might give you a .0001 (random guess) amount of influence.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120912083526.htm

If I'm gonna end up driving up solo I can stop by your neck of the woods and we can play around there if that's better for you.

Mr dicesitter.... The majority of us consider your claims as believable as those who have claimed to have seen bigfoot. Your fervent belief in what we know is not true mimics the yeti believers. In general I have stopped participating in these type threads, but the return of Nickolay made me post. I know, dicesitter, that there is nothing any of us will ever be able to post that will change your mind, so I won't bother trying. Nickolay.... I watched your shot, and I will give it to you that if the casino allowed players to throw dice on a piece of cardboard with lots of give to it, and not require it to hit a back wall.... then you might be able to exert enough dice control to overcome the house edge. You KNOW I'm willing to bet against you with real casino rules in place, at any Vegas casino or any (Ahigh) set up that is similar. If you are in Vegas October 28-31 I'll be there. And just like last time.... if we make a wager.... I'll be rooting for you to win!

Quote: nickolay411

Ahigh, Do you feel you get no rolled more often at the smaller joints or is it the same thing at the mega casinos too?

The South Point is the ONLY place to complain about my throw this year that I can think of. And even that was a single instance of telling me "all the way down" when, in fact, I knew that both dice hit the back wall and I was being careful to ensure that they always hit the back wall.

They were already huddled around in mass waiting to see the first roll that didn't hit the back wall, and after several in a row all hit the back wall (yet very lightly) they eventually just complained about hitting the back wall every time before I even failed to hit the back wall.

I have a history with this place. I know where they are going with this conversation and it doesn't take long.

By passing the dice and refusing to shoot, the event is over and I go to the next place after exclaiming that "South Point is unwilling to participate in an experiment in dice control." I mean that much was pretty clear :: I was throwing with all of my knowledge, and there was $600 in action or thereabouts from the SouthPoint that was being bet that my rolls were 100% random, and that wasn't good enough for the South Point even though i was hitting the back wall, too much money to wait and see what happens.

I've had $200 bets or so before and got this same treatment. Anything more than $100 action and what APPEARS to be a consistent toss is going to get attention at South Point.

Quote: dicesitter

Math asked me to produce 50 hours of video.

I absolutely did not. I asked you to produce video of 1080 rolls. Maybe if you brewed a cup of tea between each roll it would take 50 hours, but not for someone who's actually throwing and retrieving the dice at a reasonable clip. That should take you no more than 3 hours if you have a friend help you. Does it really take more than 10 seconds for you to throw the dice?

But it doesn't matter now that you've admitted that your results on your home practice table don't match what happens in a casino. If your at-home results actually translated to a casino, and you could improve the probability of one of the die axes to 40% as you claim, then you would have a 4% edge over the house. But you don't expect to recoup your lifetime losses, so that tells me you don't actually have that edge. Or if you do, you don't know about it. That's why I wanted to look at your video -- I'd be able to tell you the math of how your shot works, if it works at all, and how to bet to maximize your profit. But that's off the table now.

How much have you lost lifetime, $100,000? You'd make $100,000 in about 3 years playing part time with a 4% edge if you only bet $10. If you bet black, you'd win $100,000 in a few months with that 4% edge.

If only.

Quote: SOOPOO

Mr dicesitter.... The majority of us consider your claims as believable as those who have claimed to have seen bigfoot. Your fervent belief in what we know is not true mimics the yeti believers. In general I have stopped participating in these type threads, but the return of Nickolay made me post. I know, dicesitter, that there is nothing any of us will ever be able to post that will change your mind, so I won't bother trying. Nickolay.... I watched your shot, and I will give it to you that if the casino allowed players to throw dice on a piece of cardboard with lots of give to it, and not require it to hit a back wall.... then you might be able to exert enough dice control to overcome the house edge. You KNOW I'm willing to bet against you with real casino rules in place, at any Vegas casino or any (Ahigh) set up that is similar. If you are in Vegas October 28-31 I'll be there. And just like last time.... if we make a wager.... I'll be rooting for you to win!

We had (the previous experiment at my house) nothing before until Nicolay stepped up to the plate to perform.

I can devise a skilled-shooting competition on a real craps table and we can do that, though. I think ideally, we would want to fire off 300 to 400 rolls per hour for an ideal competition.

I think if everyone could realign their goals a bit, it would help us focus on control and remove ourselves from the complexities of craps itself and be able to just focus on the dice and whether they can be controlled and if so how much.

A game designed to illuminate control, if you will.

Quote: SOOPOO

Mr dicesitter.... The majority of us consider your claims as believable as those who have claimed to have seen bigfoot. Your fervent belief in what we know is not true mimics the yeti believers. In general I have stopped participating in these type threads, but the return of Nickolay made me post. I know, dicesitter, that there is nothing any of us will ever be able to post that will change your mind, so I won't bother trying. Nickolay.... I watched your shot, and I will give it to you that if the casino allowed players to throw dice on a piece of cardboard with lots of give to it, and not require it to hit a back wall.... then you might be able to exert enough dice control to overcome the house edge. You KNOW I'm willing to bet against you with real casino rules in place, at any Vegas casino or any (Ahigh) set up that is similar. If you are in Vegas October 28-31 I'll be there. And just like last time.... if we make a wager.... I'll be rooting for you to win!

Soopoo! ahah. I am glad you're still plying your trade. Same thing over here. Not sure if I can make it in Oct. But I'll try! As you know I am also willing to make a bet :) Are you still playing pai gow tiles?

Quote: Ahigh

We had (the previous experiment at my house) nothing before until Nicolay stepped up to the plate to perform.

I can devise a skilled-shooting competition on a real craps table and we can do that, though. I think ideally, we would want to fire off 300 to 400 rolls per hour for an ideal competition.

As long as it isn't an SRR test I'm game. I still have nightmares of my poor performance. There should be another way? Maybe Math Extremist can weigh in.

Quote: nickolay411

As long as it isn't an SRR test I'm game. I still have nightmares of my poor performance. There should be another way? Maybe Math Extremist can weigh in.

SRR is useless. It doesn't correlate with player edge.

The right test is to clearly define what counts as a "successful" shot based on how you're throwing it. Axial rolling has different math than the whip shot, etc. Then you can figure out the appropriate odds to offer. So the first step is the shooter saying "I think I can do X on a real craps table." What is X?

Mathextremist

Thanks for the reply....

But your not going to make the kind of record you want in 3 hours..... first you cant possibly control
a shot for 3 hours.

Second playing part time with a 4% edge wont make up for 33 years... First many table bets have a
larger than 4% edge. so you would only have the difference between your edge and what ever bet
you made.. There is no way to have a blanket 4% edge over a table unless you are judging that
with something like an edge determined by SRR.

But I admit I am a little curious about your abilities in reading dice etc.

I just played two practice hands this morning...... as I always do I isolate the 6-1 on each die on
the same starting axis.

here are my results

hand 1 1/4 ,5/4 ,3/2 ,3/1 ,3/6. 1/3 ,4/4, 2/6 ,5/1 ,1/4 ,1/4 ,6/6 ,1/4 ,5/3 ,1/5 ,4/6 ,1/1 ,2/6 ,6/6 ,1/4 ,3/2 ,2/1 .1/4 ,2/2 ,1/6

hand 2 2/6 5/6 4/4 3/5 4/1 4/6 3/5 2/1 3/5 2/1 6/3 4/2 6/1

Now knowing as much as you say you do about dice, what was I able to do with the first set, and while I changed the second set
a tad, it did the same thing.

If you want me to work with you, I need to understand you know what your talking about.

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

But your not going to make the kind of record you want in 3 hours..... first you cant possibly control
a shot for 3 hours.

I can't control a shot at all. The issue is whether you can. If you can't, you can't. Frankly, if you can only maintain control for a few minutes, your longer-term expectations for profit are very small unless you're willing to bet large sums.

Quote:

Second playing part time with a 4% edge wont make up for 33 years... First many table bets have a
larger than 4% edge. so you would only have the difference between your edge and what ever bet
you made.. There is no way to have a blanket 4% edge over a table unless you are judging that
with something like an edge determined by SRR.

No, you misunderstand the math. I didn't say all bets had a 4% edge; that's obviously impossible. With your alleged 40% control, however, there are certain wagers that have a 4% player edge.

And yes, playing part time with a 4% edge should absolutely make up for 33 years of normal losses. How much have you lost in 33 years?

Quote:

hand 1 1/4 ,5/4 ,3/2 ,3/1 ,3/6. 1/3 ,4/4, 2/6 ,5/1 ,1/4 ,1/4 ,6/6 ,1/4 ,5/3 ,1/5 ,4/6 ,1/1 ,2/6 ,6/6 ,1/4 ,3/2 ,2/1 .1/4 ,2/2 ,1/6

hand 2 2/6 5/6 4/4 3/5 4/1 4/6 3/5 2/1 3/5 2/1 6/3 4/2 6/1

If you could do that in a casino and had simply hopped everything with a 1 or 6 in it for $11/roll, at 15-1 and 30-1 payouts, you'd have made $59 on $418 action, an effective player edge of 14.11%. You could do far, far better with a more rigorous analysis and better bet selection, but there's no point in any of that because you already said your rolls in a casino don't work the same way as they do at home. So I don't understand why you're bothering.

Quote:

If you want me to work with you, I need to understand you know what your talking about.

I don't want you to work with me. You offered to prove you could influence the dice. So far you haven't. You've just posted a few numbers and some crazy theories that, if true, should have made you unbelievably wealthy by now. If you had a 14% edge like your data above indicates, it would be practically impossible for you *not* to make money. The fact that you're not wealthy is ample evidence that you can't control the dice in the way you indicate, or worse, that you *can* control the dice but don't know how to bet on them.

dicesetter,

I think I now understand your question as, "What purpose would it serve for me (dicesetter) to publish a video demonstrating dice influence/control because, if I did prove it, where could I then play it?" I'm not sure why you're asking me, as I'm not the arbiter or even a regular craps player, but....

Personally, if I were you and I could prove what I'm saying, I wouldn't post anything, either on video or in text, about what I'm doing or how. I'd keep it to myself and clean up everywhere there's a game. If you're making friends on here with whom you want to share or team up, PM them and give them the link to the video if you want to prove it to them.

So far, everything you've written is hypothetical and/or anecdotal. I would be thrilled for you if you have something that works. Seriously. But you seem to want people to take on faith something that no one has reliably proved they can do, and you haven't provided any proof it works in a casino. And yet people who don't believe on faith, based on their own knowledge of the game, the physics, the math, and the lack of any repeatable results, are somehow worthy of your disdain and disrespect for not simply buying what you're saying.

Given all that, your question is mostly rhetorical (though I answered it above); there is no good reason for you to publicly prove it, except that you're the one issuing the claim and the challenge. The way that works in most cases is, someone makes a statement. Either they back it up, or they drop it. Your choice.

And no, I'm not suggesting you're going to get banned for going on about this, or even that you should stop posting. But on this board, if anybody makes a claim, including me, they're usually challenged to back it up with proof. And the longer the conversation goes on without that substantive part, the more dismissive people become of your contention. That's all.

Math


Fair enough



dicesetter

I don't know if I said this already, but the way to prove dice control exists is to first prove how MUCH control you can have up until the point where the dice hit the felt.

Split the problem into two components. You can measure you success before the very first bounce if you have the technology to capture the incoming velocity and angular velocity trajectories of both incoming dice.

I did some of this to measure double-pitch before hitting felt and it was absolutely rivoting the difference between your GUESS about how well you controlled pitch and the REALITY when you can see it.

Your brain lies to you in the real world.

beachbumbabs

thanks for the reply.

I think given the reply by Math I have already proven it.

dicesetter

Quote: Ahigh

I don't know if I said this already, but the way to prove dice control exists is to first prove how MUCH control you can have up until the point where the dice hit the felt.

I don't know how much this will help. It's not hard at all to develop control over the dice as they're spinning through the air. Hold them side by side, make an underhand flick as you throw, and the dice will fly through the air with a quick backspin. A little practice and the axial faces will remain vertical. If you put the 1 face on the side, you'll be able to see the 1 pip float through the air as the die rotates around it. I taught myself how to do this while playing at $5 tables. Not hard at all.

But once the dice bounce off the table and the back wall, all bets are off, no pun intended. (Well sort of.) Point is, even if the rotating edges remain *exactly* parallel to the table, the impact with the back wall will almost surely not be. Then you're looking at 3-axis tumbling and loss of any biasing influence. So to me, the question is "what percentage of the time can you maintain the axis from release to when the dice come to rest?" If an axial face goes off axis at any point during the throw, that's a failure. What is the success percentage for an on-axis roller?

Ahigh


Ahigh, I would suggest the control you need to have an affect on is what happens after they hit the table. Now I am not suggesting
bad things don't happen after dice hit the table, but by using certain types of shots and sets you can cut the bad affect
down some.

In addition there are still some folks that think dice control and influence means the dice have to stay on axis through
the entire roll.... not so, not even close. If you refer back to the GTC roll as I am sure you know about from being in
Vegas, it was thought that this is an on axis throw, meaning it stays on axis, something we all agree does not happen. but
in truth the most effective GTC shot happens when you can keep one die on axis and always have one off.

The idea in dice control or influence is to find some consistency in your shot, primarily of one die and then work on your set to
take advantage of it. The relationship to the starting position of the dice and their ending position tells you some of what you need,

I provided my practice rounds for Math and asked what they had shown and the purpose of the set. He did not understand, but
if your review those results you will see something missing in all the rolls, no 3/4 4/3 5/2 or 2/5...

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

In addition there are still some folks that think dice control and influence means the dice have to stay on axis through
the entire roll.... not so, not even close. If you refer back to the GTC roll as I am sure you know about from being in
Vegas, it was thought that this is an on axis throw, meaning it stays on axis, something we all agree does not happen. but
in truth the most effective GTC shot happens when you can keep one die on axis and always have one off.

The idea in dice control or influence is to find some consistency in your shot, primarily of one die and then work on your set to
take advantage of it. The relationship to the starting position of the dice and their ending position tells you some of what you need,

I provided my practice rounds for Math and asked what they had shown and the purpose of the set. He did not understand, but
if your review those results you will see something missing in all the rolls, no 3/4 4/3 5/2 or 2/5...

Your theory appears to be that there will be some correlation between the initial orientation of the dice and the final orientation of the dice. There are two big problems with that theory.

One is that there is no physical basis for believing this to be true. You have not articulated how you impart force to the dice, so it is impossible to evaluate your theory (if you have one at all) of how the dice should behave after they land relative to how they are thrown. I agree that on-axis rolling is only one theory, but it is at least well-understood. Sliding is another -- if you can slide one die once in 20 times, you have the edge. But your physical theory for dice influence is absent. You need to be able to say "when I throw a die with orientation X, it lands on orientation Y more than it would (by Z percent) if I just threw it haphazardly." Can you do that?

Two is that you have admitted that your results in a casino are different than your results at home. Without a reason to believe that your practice at home will yield equivalent results in a casino where it matters, I fail to see the point of all your efforts. It doesn't matter whether you did not throw any sevens consisting of 2s, 3s, 4s or 5s in 38 rolls *at home* if you can't do that *in a casino.*

Quote: AxelWolf

Well ya, I can see how this mimics real casino condition.

lol +1

Gabe at Jerry's Nugget thinks that I can control the dice (and I think some other dealers there too).

They might just be pumping up my ego, granted. But they love talking me up when they are selling those HOPPERS to other players while I'm shooting.

I saw Bryan at the Westgate Casino today. I was kicked out of the WestGate when Bryan asked on stick, "anybody want to hop anything." I uttered a maternal insult response after counting four seconds in my head (I had an average bet of about $300 for about 8 hours of play and they were tired of me), and I was told, "you are going to leave the casino" after he went and complained about me.

I wrote a long detailed complaint to the WestGate and sent it in snail mail. My impression of the situation was that I wore these guys out (betting big without tipping over a LONG period of time as the only player at the table) and I was set up to receive the boot to the ass.

I still got a $120 Benihana comp, $60 in free food coupons and $600 worth of free bet coupons out of the action and I wasn't trespassed.

But no matter if they are pissed at me for not tipping and betting all day attempting to grind an edge or if they just want to sell my shot to some high house edge sucker bets, I get some pretty unusual responses from dealers about what it is that THEY think that I am doing.

One thing is certain is that black chip action plus some effort at throwing the dice is a different game than randomly flinging on a $5 bet. It's almost ALWAYS 99.99% drama and 0.01% reality no matter what portion is coming from where.

The only thing that I am SURE of is that I don't see these dealers who supposedly believe in dice control wanting to bet on my shot themselves. They only want to SELL bets.

Quote: Ahigh

I still got a $120 Benihana comp, $60 in free food coupons and $600 worth of free bet coupons out of the action and I wasn't trespassed.

How's Benihana by the way? I haven't eaten there in years but now that I live here I might check out Westgate for their comps.

Casino tables



Ahigh lives in Las Vegas so he understands as well as anyone that there is a difference between casino
tables.

On here the comment was made by some one that since there is a difference between practice table results
and actual casino results influence can not mean anything.

If you look at all sports, certain players play better in some locations than others, certain golfers do much better
on some course than others, and in our sport walleye fishing, some teams do better on certain bodies of water
than others... there can be a number of reasons for that, but there is no question it is a fact.

There is no difference between that than how many players choose a casino to play. We have 7 tables here within
1.5 hours of my home, I play on 3... because they best fit the shot I can make on my home table, In Las Vegas where
there are scores of places to play, there are only 6 tables I play at because they best fit my shot. I find when I move
around to other casino locations and tables I just have a hard time adjusting my shot, so most of the time I lose.

I know I cant go to any table I want and be as affective as I am on my home table,..... so I don't try...

Dicesetter

Dicesitter, playing craps isn't like a tennis tour where you're forced to play on many different surfaces and conditions. You said earlier that your results from home don't carry over to the casino. Now you're saying they actually do, but only some of the time. You should get your story straight. Nobody's forcing you to play where you don't want to, and it should only take one casino table that "fits your shot" for you to make buckets of money with your reported results. If your results from home are equivalent to the results at even one casino, you don't need to play anywhere else.

Those results you posted earlier indicated you would have had a double-digit edge over the house playing hop bets. Hop bets ordinarily have the highest edge on the table, and it takes a ridiculous amount of dice bias to overcome that edge. If you have such an incredible ability to create that amount of dice bias, and that ability manifests in a casino where you can make bets, and you're not wealthy after using that ability, you're doing it wrong.

In my experience, having listened to many people over the years who claimed to be able to beat the house in this way, it's far more likely that you're just blowing smoke up everyone's collective rear ends. The pattern is always the same: some "dice controller" will first make wildly-improbable claims ("Hey, my SRR is 23!"), offer ineffectual "proof" by posting a string of alleged dice results (never any video, though), and then when confronted with legitimate skepticism and further questions, resort to one of two tactics. The first is to start backpedaling about why they're unwilling to provide any real evidence. Your specific excuses so far have been "it's too much work to shoot a video" and "if I demonstrated my ability, where could I play?" The second is to make up numbers in an attempt to prove the point, but that always backfires because it indicates ridiculous player advantages like the >10% edge you would have if your results were accurate. In your case you also conveniently "de-fudged" the number 40% to 37.5% (!) because in your opinion the latter was more believable. That was a miscalculation in both meanings of the term. The moral of the story is "don't try to bulls**t a mathematician by making up numbers." Another novel twist is the notion that you're not a longer-term winner because after a few rolls "your hands get tired" and "you can't keep up the shot." After seven years of practice, it's not credible that you can't throw more than a few times before getting tired.

I'm getting tired too. At this point it's clear you're not going to offer up any real proof of your alleged ability, and as such I'm no longer interested in helping you understand how to demonstrate it or profit from it. I've done all the work to understand dice models and altered edges under various biases, but I don't pretend I can cause those biases. You initially indicated that you could cause dice bias but weren't winning, and I could have helped you correct that financial trend (if it were true). Perhaps there will come a time when someone who actually has the ability to influence fair dice on a casino table will be willing to demonstrate that ability, but that's not you and that's not today.

Quote: MathExtremist

In my experience, having listened to many people over the years who claimed to be able to beat the house in this way,
it's far more likely that you're
just
blowing
smoke
up
everyone's
collective
rear
ends.

is that really possible?

i mean old-timers are old for a reason
and DS turned down a very lucrative team play shooter offer, it was a win/win as i saw it

now...
is this what some say to me to change my Mustang 7.5 to an 8.8 rear end

i think my rear end is already too big
(in other words, wide, or just too fat)


go Angels!

Quote: Ahigh

Gabe at Jerry's Nugget thinks that I can control the dice <snip>

that is so nice you boys are still
playing with dice

i think your beautiful wife really knows if you, Ahigh, can control dice
as your shyness to say you can or can't is a super turn-on (i imagine lots of things)

nice to see you are healthy and doing well
keep it up!
Sally

MATH

Math, don't fret, your not interested in what i am doing....
It will be really hard for me, but i will get over it.

dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

MATH

Math, don't fret, your not interested in what i am doing....
It will be really hard for me, but i will get over it.

dicesetter

*yawn*

SS, DD.

played


Had some work in court house late today so stopped at casino on the way home.

had one turn with the dice.

horizontal 6 axis set.

4/4 1/1 4/1 1/5 2/3 1/5 3/2 4/2 5/5 3/6 6/3 2/4 2/1 1/1 6/5 6/4 4/5 1/2 2/4 4/4 3/1 6/1

took my money and headed home..

isolating the 1/6 axis gives you a real good starting point if you had to make some small
adjustments in set. today I did not have to make any, wish it was always like that.

dicesetter

Quote: MathExtremist

Dicesitter, playing craps isn't like a tennis tour where you're forced to play on many different surfaces and conditions.

Really? I really hate to side with the Cheesehead on anything, but this an ignorant statement. From size to height to surface material to padding to ridges to wires to backwall surface, one could argue that all craps tables are like snowflakes. None alike.

Quote: DeMango

From size to height to surface material to padding to ridges to wires to backwall surface, one could argue that all craps tables are like snowflakes. None alike.

Of course tables are different, but nobody's forcing anyone to play on all of them. Our friend's excuse du jour was that not all tables worked for his shot. So? Find one that "works" and don't play anywhere else.

dicesitter,

My math skills are weak but I'm giving it a try. A random roller would have had a 1 or 6 show 14.66 times out of the 44 (22 Rolls) dice decisions you posted.

You ended up with 15. Yet you say you isolated the 1 and 6 axis. So you did worse than a random roller. So i dug deeper.

Your amount of six's were lower than expected but your amount of 1's were outrageously high. Looks like the dice are crooked in the air or are turning off axis after the bounce either way they and favoring a left or right off axis rotation.

Cheerios!

Nicolay411


Thanks for the reply, but you misunderstand the point of the isolation of the 1/6/6/1 axis.

There are 3 basic axis indications x,y,z The point of the isolation of 6/1 or any other set
of numbers in the same starting axis on each die is then to understand what happens with
each.

The data I provided the other day had the 1/6 6/1 on a different starting point.

Many times, but not all for sure, you will have certain numbers come up on one die
or another enough to make an adjustment with the other....

The main goal is to avoid the 7 but if you are on an ATS table or fire bet table and there
is a set or adjustment you can make to help make another number ( I said help here, not
make 100% of the time.) it is worth a shot.

In the data I provided the last 3 hands ( two practice and one real) I had 65 rolls and 3
sevens...... in those rolls I had no 5/2 2/5 or 3/4 4/3....

If knowing where the 1/6 6/1 are makes no difference you explain that to me...

I understand an SRR of 21 or so is just luck, you cant keep that up, your lucky to have
an SRR of 7.5 over time... so that's why I only played one hand....I was happy with the
shot, I know I was lucky in the duration of it, so I took my money and left.

Thanks


dicesetter

Typical AP play: You have the advantage, so you leave.

Demango



Exactly.... I had an advantage and that roll was far better than my average
so I left..... for my average of about an SRR of 7.5 I could have had a number
of very short rolls in a row..

Dicesetter

Quote: dicesitter

for my average of about an SRR of 7.5 I could have had a number
of very short rolls in a row..

Dicesetter

that may be true for only a few hands but over 1 million of them, that should keep you busy,

you should take most of the casinos money
at 7.5 SRR
until they ban you and then you move on until all casinos ban you
of course you would have won well over $100,000,000
so why keep playing?
why you not want this?
you think they will ban you?


I know of a few large teams that would pay you to roll the dice all over the world
they understand variance and never play the scared-to-play game

i guess you do not want the fame?
or the money
or the failure

that is OK too (1+0.5+0.5)

Quote: mustangsally

you should take most of the casinos money
at 7.5 SRR
until they ban you and then you move on until all casinos ban you
of course you would have won well over $100,000,000

Here's why SRR is such a useless statistic. A player could have an SRR of 6.015 and still have a +1.79% edge over the house on the passline. They could also have an SRR of 5.97 and have a +3.84% edge over the house on the passline. The direction of SRR isn't important, the ratios of other numbers are.

However, if someone suggests they have a ridiculously large difference between their own SRR and 6.0, like the suggestion that someone expects to roll a 7 on average only once every 7.5 rolls, it necessarily follows that at least one bet on the table has a double-digit player edge.

Imagine the hardways paid 11-to-1 on 6/8 and 9-to-1 on 4/10. That's an approximation of the kind of edge a player would have under that level of bias.

With those payouts, how long would it take you to get to $100,000,000 if you started with a $1000 bankroll and the casino would always book any size bet?

Mustangsally


True enough, but I was on my way home, I did not have time for a million hands


Dicesetter

PS

Math is pretty good at finding fault with everyone else's data...... funny thing is he never
has any of his own.

Quote: MathExtremist

However, if someone suggests they have a ridiculously large difference between their own SRR and 6.0, like the suggestion that someone expects to roll a 7 on average only once every 7.5 rolls, it necessarily follows that at least one bet on the table has a double-digit player edge.

Imagine the hardways paid 11-to-1 on 6/8 and 9-to-1 on 4/10. That's an approximation of the kind of edge a player would have under that level of bias.

there are many that have said their SRR >=7.5
not me as i very rarely shoot the dice

Quote: MathExtremist

With those payouts, how long would it take you to get to $100,000,000 if you started with a $1000 bankroll and the casino would always book any size bet?

no IF
i would not start with $1000

no
no way

would know the power of the shooter
min $3,000,000 start
with a loss rebate thrown in 4 good luck (for the shooter)
this would be enough to make 100% sure that no casino would ever allow this to happen again
after their combined losses

what would a team do with $100,000,000?
give it all away to taxes??
run away from a president?

sell pot in US states that allow it?
i like that idea and do not need that much cash
"Love is all you need"
"everybody smoke pot"

Quote: dicesitter

Math is pretty good at finding fault with everyone else's data...... funny thing is he never
has any of his own.

sure he does
he also has his own web site too

i heard his wife also just had a garage sale (the garage was not for sale)
that included lots of MEs old data he does not use or need these days
good rare stuff

i missed that sale (am on vacation back east)
hope she has another soon
as I do not mind a trip to WA

Quote: dicesitter

Mustangsally
True enough, but I was on my way home, I did not have time for a million hands
Dicesetter
PS
Math is pretty good at finding fault with everyone else's data...... funny thing is he never
has any of his own.

You've spent seven years practicing...
You record your dice rolls in a casino...
You post those results as proof that you have amazing dice-influencing abilities...
Your own calculations indicate that when you throw the dice, one of them lands on one of two faces 40% of the time instead of the expected 33%...
You claim to have a long-term SRR of 7.5...
...and you still need a job.

That is a textbook example of a non-sequitur.

My expected SRR is exactly 6. I don't "have any data" because I don't bother to record my dice rolls when I play. I just play, blissfully unencumbered by the fallacy that I can influence the dice.

Quote: mustangsally

i heard his wife also just had a garage sale (the garage was not for sale)
that included lots of MEs old data he does not use or need these days
good rare stuff

It wasn't that good of a sale. I only got rid of the 1s.
All the 2s through 6s are still in storage somewhere. Now my SRR is 6.25.

mathextremist


I am sure your SRR is 6 and that's why you find fault with all my data, I cant help that
you SRR is 6 , and you have a 6 SRR because you don't have any data.

Dicrsetter

Quote: dicesitter

Did you hear what Sally said? I have said this many times before.

If you or someone can prove they have any influence they/YOU can make a serious amount of money.

Even if you don't have the bankroll or the balls to bet enough. People would be kicking down your door to have you shoot for them. They would probably fly you around the world, and you wouldn't have any risk.

Agian you can hide your Identity from the general public and still proove something.

If DI is possible someone is going to prove i Why not have that someone be you and profit from it? at least in private.

Quote: dicesitter

mathextremist
I am sure your SRR is 6 and that's why you find fault with all my data, I cant help that
you SRR is 6 , and you have a 6 SRR because you don't have any data.

No, I have a 6 SRR for exactly the same reason you do: neither of us can influence the dice. The difference between us is that I don't pretend to. Well, that's one difference. Another is that I understand what an insignificant sample size looks like.

And I don't find fault with your data per se, other than I think it's bogus. What I find fault with is your admitted inability to profit from the ability that your data suggests. Spending seven years to become great at something is usually deserving of accolades. But if you actually have the level of influence indicated by your data and you can't make boatloads of money with it, there's something very, very wrong. Either you're telling tall tales or you're the world's worst gambler. It doesn't really matter which.

Axelwolf


Smiling..... we are working on that, I took me a very long time to get my toss to where it is and
I hope from now on as long as I can keep the throw consistent I will make some money.

The idea that we would take some one else with us or me is way off the wall, in fact if I am playing
and some one comes to the table with large bets I leave the table. We had a guy like that in
Wisconsin 3 years ago, I am not sure, but I think he was a foot ball player and started with max bets across
and seemed to show up when we did.. he made some very good money...... we also got banned from the
table and they closed it for setting the dice 2 years...

Sorry.... not going to happen

dicesetter