Craps with ante
Can anyone calculate the HA on my line bets with this ante, assuming I'm making a $5 PL bet and taking 3x-4x-5x odds? I'd obviously be better off making a $10 PL bet with those same max odds. But, say I make a $10 PL bet with the $1 ante and take only double odds...can anyone tell me if I'm better off there than taking the 5$ PL bet with 3/4/5?
Thanks.
I've not heard of this before.
Quote: MrVAre they "real" or "charity" casinos?
I've not heard of this before.
Real casinos. Three examples (all Oklahoman casinos) are Winstar World in Thackerville, Choctaw in Durant, and Hard Rock in Tulsa.
I've played at a "charity" casino in Belmont, New Hampshire, but there they changed the payouts (unfavorably, of course), but no ante was required.
Quote: MrVWow!
I've played at a "charity" casino in Belmont, New Hampshire, but there they changed the payouts (unfavorably, of course), but no ante was required.
It's not relevant to my question, but these casinos also don't allow dice; it's card craps They don't even sell dice in the gift shop (I'm told they don't want drunks flinging them across their tables, lol.) The probabilities on card craps are the same, but the ante itself (also found on other table games (BJ, UTH, etc) certainly makes the HA more difficult to overcome. I'm just trying to figure out how much more difficult.
Incidentally, one of the casinos I mentioned also has electronic craps, where no ante is required. That game limits the player to double odds, however. It's still my preferred game at that casino.
Quote: Seids44The nearest casinos to me require an "ante" of $1 to be placed with any line bet, which is picked up before the come out roll. For example, a $5 pass-line win pays, in essence, $5 for $6 wagered, a $10 bet pays $10 for $11 wagered, etc. Subsequent bets during the roll do not require the ante.
Can anyone calculate the HA on my line bets with this ante, assuming I'm making a $5 PL bet and taking 3x-4x-5x odds? I'd obviously be better off making a $10 PL bet with those same max odds. But, say I make a $10 PL bet with the $1 ante and take only double odds...can anyone tell me if I'm better off there than taking the 5$ PL bet with 3/4/5?
Thanks.
Well I am not mathematician but if you pay $1 on a $5 bet you are increasing the house edge by 20%.
Quote: GWAEWell I am not mathematician but if you pay $1 on a $5 bet you are increasing the house edge by 20%.
I was asking what the house edge was on a line bet of $5 with 3/4/5 odds and a $1 ante, and whether it's higher or lower than a line bet of $10 with the same $1 ante and only double odds.
Quote: Seids44I was asking what the house edge was on a line bet of $5 with 3/4/5 odds and a $1 ante, and whether it's higher or lower than a line bet of $10 with the same $1 ante and only double odds.
Well
https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/appendix/2/
You will lose .07 for each 5 pass line bet. Odds have no he. If you are looking for percentage of total bet them
$5 with 5x odds will cost you $1.07 for 3.6%
$5 with 3x odds will cost you $1.07 for 5.4%
$10 with 2x odds will cost you $1.14 for 3.8%
Quote: GWAEWell
/games/craps/appendix/2/
You will lose .07 for each 5 pass line bet. Odds have no he. If you are looking for percentage of total bet them
$5 with 5x odds will cost you $1.07 for 3.6%
$5 with 3x odds will cost you $1.07 for 5.4%
$10 with 2x odds will cost you $1.14 for 3.8%
Thanks. So, compared with this table:
which shows house edge of .374% on my pass/come bets with 3/4/5x odds, you're saying the $1 ante on a $5 pass line bet with 3/4/5x odds increases the house edge from under half a point to over three and half points?
Edit: appears I can't post a link until I've a certain number of posts. Was attempting to link to WOO craps strategy table "Combined house edge on pass/come and taking full odds.
Quote: Seids44Thanks. So, compared with this table:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/#toc-Strategy
which shows house edge of .374% on my pass/come bets with 3/4/5x odds, you're saying the $1 ante on a $5 pass line bet with 3/4/5x odds increases the house edge from under half a point to over three and half points?
Edit: appears I can't post a link until I've a certain number of posts. Was attempting to link to WOO craps strategy table "Combined house edge on pass/come and taking full odds.
That is correct. That $1 on a $30 total bet is 3.3%
Quote: GWAEThat is correct. That $1 on a $30 total bet is 3.3%
Thanks...that ante is significant, then, at the stakes I'd play...I'll stick with the electronic version, no ante, double odds...looks like combined house edge on pass/come with double odds of .606%.
Quote: Seids44Thanks...that ante is significant, then, at the stakes I'd play...I'll stick with the electronic version, no ante, double odds...looks like combined house edge on pass/come with double odds of .606%.
Are you sure that the electronic version plays fair and is not a slot or bingo game? If so then yes you are better off there.
Quote: GWAEAre you sure that the electronic version plays fair and is not a slot or bingo game? If so then yes you are better off there.
Am I sure? Not at all. Anecdotally it appears fair, and displays the machine's "longest rolls" on the screen, and I've personally seen multiple shooters go over 30 rolls. That means nothing of course. Any idea how I could find out for sure? I am told that the machine pays players' card points and comps at a slot-machine level versus table games, whatever that means.
The only expected loss you will experience on the pass line is the pass line bet itself and the potential $1 ante (odds are always a wash). Without the ante, your expected loss on a $10 bet is 14 cents... with an ante, it's 114 cents. Variance notwithstanding, you would lose less money betting $80 without an ante vs. $10 with an ante. When it comes to the pass line and odds, I've found the house edge is a foolish value to consider, just look at how much you are expected to lose per round. Long story short, antes ruin table games.
Quote: Seids44Real casinos. Three examples (all Oklahoman casinos) are Winstar World in Thackerville, Choctaw in Durant, and Hard Rock in Tulsa.
thanks for this info...i might be passing through oklahoma this winter...this saves me an unnecessary stop to check out the craps tables or lack thereof...no way would i pay a pass line ante
tom p
Quote: betwthelinesQuote: Seids44Real casinos. Three examples (all Oklahoman casinos) are Winstar World in Thackerville, Choctaw in Durant, and Hard Rock in Tulsa.
thanks for this info...i might be passing through oklahoma this is saves me an unnecessary stop to check out the craps tables or lack way would i pay a pass line ante
tom p
Yup. The combination of the ante and their "no dice" rule (card craps) makes it especially unappealing. The only viable option is Choctaw's ecraps machines, which do limit you to full double odds. Neither of the other two mentioned offer ecraps, however.
Quote: betwthelinesQuote: Seids44Real casinos. Three examples (all Oklahoman casinos) are Winstar World in Thackerville, Choctaw in Durant, and Hard Rock in Tulsa.
thanks for this info...i might be passing through oklahoma this winter...this saves me an unnecessary stop to check out the craps tables or lack thereof...no way would i pay a pass line ante
tom p
The Doublestream Resort, in the MO-KS-OK corner, among others, pays the ante for you if you play rated. And their games have good paytables. Not sure DSR has craps, though. They do have ecraps. They also have both Class I I and Class III slots, but only a couple banks of the II's.
The ante is a fee charged by the state. Still affects the HE, but you're not paying extra into the casino's vault, fwiw.
Quote: beachbumbabsQuote: betwthelinesQuote: Seids44Real casinos. Three examples (all Oklahoman casinos) are Winstar World in Thackerville, Choctaw in Durant, and Hard Rock in Tulsa.
thanks for this info...i might be passing through oklahoma this is saves me an unnecessary stop to check out the craps tables or lack way would i pay a pass line ante
tom p
The Doublestream Resort, in the MO-KS-OK corner, among others, pays the ante for you if you play rated. And their games have good paytables. Not sure DSR has craps, though. They do have ecraps. They also have both Class I I and Class III slots, but only a couple banks of the II's.
The ante is a fee charged by the state. Still affects the HE, but you're not paying extra into the casino's vault, fwiw.
I believe you're referring to the Downstream Casino in Qapaw? They don't have table craps; at least not last year when I was there for poker.
