Thread Rating:

boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
August 24th, 2014 at 9:46:15 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I tipped then more than the sum total of all tips while I was there for over an hour (about $20). I only won about twice as much as I tipped.I watched people with twenty times as much action stiff these guys and the dealers were TOTALLY HAPPY to be getting toked.



$5 each. Wow.

Quote:

And if I want to stand there and give someone an earful about how horribly they are running their table, I WILL DO IT. And please 86 me if you don't like it. I'll complain about being 86'd as I get escorted out the door too.



They will.

Quote:

And I couldn't care less what you think about how much I make and how that should affect my decision about how much I toke or how much I complain. It's completely irrelevant.



It is relevant. The dealers make $20K/year or less, plus tips. The dealers don't really care to be told how to do their jobs, and they don't care if a doey don't has the same EV as a pass or don't pass, just as much as you don't want to hear a lecture from a customer about how to code when you know how to code. That was my comparison. Put yourself in their shoes for moment, please. Your $1 tips are not worth the lecture fee.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
August 24th, 2014 at 9:49:48 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I don't think I was reprimanded. It's their job to entertain me, and they failed, and I let them know about it. Screw what they think about how I bet! It's a frequent thing that I will let a dealer know that if I need advice for how to bet I will ask them. Dealer advice on how to bet is generally pretty terrible. So are comments like yours on internet forums. This thread is about dealers telling you how to bet, not about house rules. If this were only about house rules, maybe we could talk about your perspective on how my method of betting violated house rules. In my opinion, I don't think it violated any house rules. I think the box man was just being a horrible employee completely out of touch with what was going on at the time (my tipping instead of playing for myself).



It's their job to enforce the rules of the game. Of that they have no choice or latitude. The entertainment factor is such that there are some players who will never be entertained no matter what they do. You see, there are some people who come to the craps table who expect to see a circus and experience something else. Some people can't be entertained, and I think, given your experience, that you are one of the outliers who expect too much from the crew and not enough from the game itself.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
  • Threads: 149
  • Posts: 19171
August 24th, 2014 at 9:56:07 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

There is one other place that won't allow this, but technically it's not a free bet coupon, it's a free bet chip. They are typically $25 denomination and up. That place is the Stratosphere.

But I would be surprised if you could come up with another craps pit that disallows hedging coupons. I therefore challenge you to come up with and have me verify what you suggest that it's more prevalent than I suggest.

Here's the places that allow it that I know of and can easily verify by asking (there's a remote chance one of these places changed their policy, but I've done it multiple times at each property and I always ask before doing it the first time as I did recently at The M).

Gold Coast
Sam's Town
Silverton
Red Rock
Palace Station
Green Valley Ranch
Texas Station
Fiesta Rancho
Fiesta Henderson
The M

Not every craps pit gives out coupons (I don't think the Wynn does, and I don't think any MGM properties do either). So that further limits the discussion to the craps pits that allow and have free bet coupons on the felt.

Lets clarify a few things before we go any further. Most casino have/had some type of coupons for table games including craps. Whether it be match play coupons, free bet coupons, so limiting to the 12 casinos you possibly play at is cherry picking.

I'm saying that if you walk up to a table with a match play or free play coupon and place hedging bets with your coupon and a pit boss see this happening there is as fair chance he will tell you this is not allowed. its not in the spirit of the offer.They don't like you free rolling them. they know if have a better chance of losing you have a better chance of chasing. They might let good players get away with this way more often.

I have even seen some coupons even specifically state you cant do this. Not exactly the same but along the same lines E table games often disallow free play coupons because they want you to risk money
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 62
  • Posts: 8623
August 24th, 2014 at 2:00:32 PM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

And if I want to stand there and give someone an earful about how horribly they are running their table, I WILL DO IT. And please 86 me if you don't like it. I'll complain about being 86'd as I get escorted out the door too.

I think that's my right to complain and make their life miserable in return for what they assumed that they could do (tell me some bull that's possibly not even true about how I can bet) without hearing any feedback from me.



Quote: Ahigh

I don't think I was reprimanded. It's their job to entertain me, and they failed, and I let them know about it. Screw what they think about how I bet! It's a frequent thing that I will let a dealer know that if I need advice for how to bet I will ask them. Dealer advice on how to bet is generally pretty terrible. So are comments like yours on internet forums. This thread is about dealers telling you how to bet, not about house rules. If this were only about house rules, maybe we could talk about your perspective on how my method of betting violated house rules. In my opinion, I don't think it violated any house rules. I think the box man was just being a horrible employee completely out of touch with what was going on at the time (my tipping instead of playing for myself).

I have an idea, RS. Maybe you're the same way. Ignorant that this is a thread about betting the way that you want and ignoring ignorant dealers or boxes at the table. There's a sort of a parallel here in that you think this is about house rules and obeying house rules. It's not. You can bet HOWEVER YOU WANT within the minimum and maximum bet limits. That includes do and don't at the same time at every casino that I know of. I don't even accept that the Palms disallows this when it's your money and not a coupon. I think this guy was wrong because I have heard the rules about do and don't at the same time there, and it's all about the coupons.

You and people like you take a tiny sample of a situation and think to yourself that you know more than you do.

You want to take a $25 wager with me whether I violated house rules at the Palms when no coupon is involved?



I'm not interested in a $25 wager, or any other amount.


Perhaps my word usage was poor. The casino can decide to not take your action if they so please. If they don't want your action, that's up to them. That boxman didn't want your action, at least that type of action. I'm not saying he was right. I'm saying he didn't want it yet you have this "they have to take my action no matter what" attitude.

Instead of giving a long speech, why not ask the box why he wouldn't let you do doey-don't? Or ask him if it's against the house rules? He even said you could play, as long as the table wasn't full (or something like that?).


No, they do not have to allow you your action and can dictate how you bet. I've been told that I cannot increase nor decrease my bet (in blackjack) in the middle of a shoe -- I'm sure others have, too.


Did you really say you think you have a right to make their life miserable if they don't accept your action?
petroglyph
petroglyph
Joined: Jan 3, 2013
  • Threads: 19
  • Posts: 3359
August 24th, 2014 at 3:12:28 PM permalink
Quote: RS

I'm not interested in a $25 wager, or any other amount.


Perhaps my word usage was poor. The casino can decide to not take your action if they so please. If they don't want your action, that's up to them. That boxman didn't want your action, at least that type of action. I'm not saying he was right. I'm saying he didn't want it yet you have this "they have to take my action no matter what" attitude.

Instead of giving a long speech, why not ask the box why he wouldn't let you do doey-don't? Or ask him if it's against the house rules? He even said you could play, as long as the table wasn't full (or something like that?).


No, they do not have to allow you your action and can dictate how you bet. I've been told that I cannot increase nor decrease my bet (in blackjack) in the middle of a shoe -- I'm sure others have, too.


Did you really say you think you have a right to make their life miserable if they don't accept your action?




It is interesting that different people read these posts and get different meaning out of them. I am finally comprehending how poor written communication is and what an art good writing skills are.

The dealers IMO are already miserable [or not] and Ahigh doesn't change their lives meaningfully either way.

I see this as was said, the box steps in not knowing what is going on. I too have played just low stakes for the dealers toward the end of my game. For the love of the game.

Who else is going to teach these break in dealers different understanding of the game? The box doesn't have time anymore as they are covering more and more duties. What the dealers learn at dealer school other than company policy can possibly be the last thing they learn about the game if they are not interested enough to study on their own. Ahigh challenges them to think, and so many insecure dealers are upset with him versus using him as not only an inexpensive way to learn more about the game but Hell he even pays them while teaching them.

If the dealers take it poorly than that too is on management to work on the dealers people skills. Ahigh said, you don't want me here I will leave. He also said he wasn't planning on not telling them what he thought about being 86'd. That is how the system works. All these milk toast players who can't get beyond pass/fail or field bets irritate me sometimes. I've watched these dealers short pay, and short stick and nobody calls them on it. Does anyone think that they review the tape at the end of the night and catch short pays and try and hunt down the player because the house owes them money? Not.

I'm sure dealing as an occupation can be less then pleasant at times. In my job it had its moments also. But I am confident in my skillset to move to the next job if this one isn't working. These dealers if they want professional style tips should be able to twist Ahigh in knots about the rules, odds and nuances history and such of the game.

Hey, hate the game not the player. If he is wrong disagree on the merits of the game. I can't stand dealers trying to get me to make bets I dont want. No two players alike.

I for one love to learn something every day. Sometimes how I come across the knowledge hasn't been the most pleasant way. Pain is a good teacher.
Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
  • Threads: 90
  • Posts: 6814
August 24th, 2014 at 3:17:21 PM permalink
" Did you really say you think you have a right to make their life miserable if they don't accept your action? "

ABSOLUTELY. That could try explaining to gaming why I could not place a bet !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14232
August 24th, 2014 at 3:17:57 PM permalink
I keep meaning to ask. What does "short stick" mean in craps? You guys mention it a lot.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
VCUSkyhawk
VCUSkyhawk
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
  • Threads: 21
  • Posts: 644
August 24th, 2014 at 3:21:54 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I keep meaning to ask. What does "short stick" mean in craps? You guys mention it a lot.



I had never heard the phrase before myself. In the Wiz's video on craps he says it is when a dealer doesn't move the dice too close to the edge so a well endowed chick's tatas hang out to get the dice.
I got a plan, we take all your picks we reverse them like one of those twilight zone episodes where everything is the opposite. You say "black" we go white.
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 99
  • Posts: 14232
August 24th, 2014 at 3:23:44 PM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

" Did you really say you think you have a right to make their life miserable if they don't accept your action? "

ABSOLUTELY. That could try explaining to gaming why I could not place a bet !



This is my take on it as well. There's a trickle-down effect when a player is rude and/or condescending to a dealer, especially a new one. The dealer gets scared and defensive, gets to hating their job, gets to hating their patrons, not just the guy they cringe when they see him coming, but all players are now taking a shot, cause a problem, belittle them, whatever. And then they move towards either apathy or hostility, and don't do their jobs as well as they might if they enjoyed and trusted their customers, which gives rise to increases in customer complaints or derision. It's a spiral of escalation.

Stand up for correcting a pay or a problem as it happens, sure. Done with respect and goodwill, it is effective and damages neither the dealer nor your relationship with the casino.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 313
  • Posts: 6886
August 24th, 2014 at 3:25:07 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I keep meaning to ask. What does "short stick" mean in craps? You guys mention it a lot.



It's a little ploy that chauvinistic stickmen do to amuse themselves and the rest of the crew.

Basically, when a "well endowed" women is rolling dem bones, the stickman deliberately moves the dice to her in such a way that they are further away from her than normal.

In order to grab them, she must reach in, deep into the table, hopefully exposing her breast.
"What, me worry?"

  • Jump to: