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Buzzard
Buzzard
Joined: Oct 28, 2012
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August 19th, 2014 at 11:50:04 PM permalink
Never ask. Just do it !
Shed not for her the bitter tear Nor give the heart to vain regret Tis but the casket that lies here, The gem that filled it Sparkles yet
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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August 24th, 2014 at 5:43:07 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh



Nobody else barks about coupon hedging. NOBODY!

I would think I have played far more coupons then you, even on craps. In my experience they DO care and have barked about it often. Granted I have not tried hedging like that for a long time.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
Joined: Nov 9, 2009
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August 24th, 2014 at 6:22:37 AM permalink
Quote: radioraheem

do and don't bets reduce the player's variance tremendously



in negative expectation, this favors the House.

Quote: radioraheem

if you have a free bet or match bet ticket



now it's no longer negative expectation.

Quote: radioraheem

given that most bettors play until they hit or approach a "zero point" in their session bank, the house is less likely to "zero out"



the thing is, the Craps Tables would all require large minimum bets if players only played Pass or Don't Pass. I think if I owned the Casino I would want to know if the typical Doey-Don't Guy never made Middle Table bets. In that case I might listen to someone wanting to ban it. Otherwise, why worry about it? Even when coupons are played, it's just about variance, in the meantime more action is always good for the House [edit]
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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August 24th, 2014 at 6:54:28 AM permalink
Just finished reading through all this:

Sluistro: bad dealer, needs to be reprimanded (unless the table is full and box needs to free up a spot for someone who might be waiting). Talk to pit next time that happens.

Ahigh: the $1 tokes you give the crew are not worth it to hear a speech about the odds and what is a better bet. They could care less. You work for a software development company (in gaming) and I assume make close to 100K. if your manager decided to give you a $3 bonus to hear him talk down to you about how code should be written (when you know how it should be written), I am thinking you would be pissed off too. It's your money. It's their casino. Personnel doesn't have to take that crap from players.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
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August 24th, 2014 at 8:33:58 AM permalink
So you broke the house rules, got reprimanded, and now you're mad. These types of threads are funny to read.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 24th, 2014 at 8:52:35 AM permalink
Quote: RS

So you broke the house rules, got reprimanded, and now you're mad. These types of threads are funny to read.



I don't think I was reprimanded. It's their job to entertain me, and they failed, and I let them know about it. Screw what they think about how I bet! It's a frequent thing that I will let a dealer know that if I need advice for how to bet I will ask them. Dealer advice on how to bet is generally pretty terrible. So are comments like yours on internet forums. This thread is about dealers telling you how to bet, not about house rules. If this were only about house rules, maybe we could talk about your perspective on how my method of betting violated house rules. In my opinion, I don't think it violated any house rules. I think the box man was just being a horrible employee completely out of touch with what was going on at the time (my tipping instead of playing for myself).

I have an idea, RS. Maybe you're the same way. Ignorant that this is a thread about betting the way that you want and ignoring ignorant dealers or boxes at the table. There's a sort of a parallel here in that you think this is about house rules and obeying house rules. It's not. You can bet HOWEVER YOU WANT within the minimum and maximum bet limits. That includes do and don't at the same time at every casino that I know of. I don't even accept that the Palms disallows this when it's your money and not a coupon. I think this guy was wrong because I have heard the rules about do and don't at the same time there, and it's all about the coupons.

You and people like you take a tiny sample of a situation and think to yourself that you know more than you do.

You want to take a $25 wager with me whether I violated house rules at the Palms when no coupon is involved?
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 24th, 2014 at 9:10:57 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Ahigh: the $1 tokes you give the crew are not worth it to hear a speech about the odds and what is a better bet. They could care less. You work for a software development company (in gaming) and I assume make close to 100K. if your manager decided to give you a $3 bonus to hear him talk down to you about how code should be written (when you know how it should be written), I am thinking you would be pissed off too. It's your money. It's their casino. Personnel doesn't have to take that crap from players.



I tipped then more than the sum total of all tips while I was there for over an hour (about $20). I only won about twice as much as I tipped.

I watched people with twenty times as much action stiff these guys and the dealers were TOTALLY HAPPY to be getting toked.

So let me make two points: Number one, is that $1 here and $1 there add up. When you add money up it becomes worth something. How much money that I make, that am worth, how much money that I am betting, and how much money you THINK that I could be tipping are all COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

And if I want to stand there and give someone an earful about how horribly they are running their table, I WILL DO IT. And please 86 me if you don't like it. I'll complain about being 86'd as I get escorted out the door too.

I think that's my right to complain and make their life miserable in return for what they assumed that they could do (tell me some bull that's possibly not even true about how I can bet) without hearing any feedback from me.

Sure I'm risking being persona non-gratis in that casino in any casino I choose to do that. But the point of the entire thread is about dealing with bull that dealers tell you.

You need to know what you're talking about to argue with these guys. There is no doubt. But going back to the point of the thread, when you are betting your own money you can bet HOWEVER YOU WANT within the rules of the minimum and maximum limits. Any dealer who thinks otherwise is generally wrong. Those wrong people can get an earful from me if they want to tell me stuff that's wrong. And I couldn't care less what you think about how much I make and how that should affect my decision about how much I toke or how much I complain.

It's completely irrelevant.

Someone might even make the argument that I couldn't care one single bit about your comments because of how much money I make. They would be wrong too. I care about the details of what is right and what is wrong to create the best and most entertaining gambling experience possible because I am a passionate gambler who cares about the entertainment value of gambling. It has nothing at all to do with money and everything to do with pride and genuine passion and interest in the game. Something that not everybody has when it comes to this game.

The Palms and The Venetian / Palazzo are getting it wrong more than any other craps pits that I know of. And you better believe I will give them an earful about how they are getting it wrong, ESPECIALLY as long as they are ignoring me. I couldn't care less if they don't want to hear what I have to say. I will do what I want and let them deal with me instead of dealing with running a decent game. That's totally fine with me!

The first one of these two casinos that 86's me for complaining about their stupid policies, I will happily never visit their casino again. Until then, they can expect to hear me vocalize my complaints to the staff (not in front of other patrons mind you) to make the point that (even the coupon) policy of not hedging is absolutely ridiculous. But when it comes to my money, I have yet to be told it's a valid house rule. I offered a $25 bet to see if it's true, and if that bet is accepted, we will find out if it's a house rule or not. I doubt it's a rule at all.
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 24th, 2014 at 9:12:19 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

I would think I have played far more coupons then you, even on craps. In my experience they DO care and have barked about it often. Granted I have not tried hedging like that for a long time.



There is one other place that won't allow this, but technically it's not a free bet coupon, it's a free bet chip. They are typically $25 denomination and up. That place is the Stratosphere.

But I would be surprised if you could come up with another craps pit that disallows hedging coupons. I therefore challenge you to come up with and have me verify what you suggest that it's more prevalent than I suggest.

Here's the places that allow it that I know of and can easily verify by asking (there's a remote chance one of these places changed their policy, but I've done it multiple times at each property and I always ask before doing it the first time as I did recently at The M).

Gold Coast
Sam's Town
Silverton
Red Rock
Palace Station
Green Valley Ranch
Texas Station
Fiesta Rancho
Fiesta Henderson
The M

Not every craps pit gives out coupons (I don't think the Wynn does, and I don't think any MGM properties do either). So that further limits the discussion to the craps pits that allow and have free bet coupons on the felt.
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
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August 24th, 2014 at 9:30:07 AM permalink
Quote: Ahigh

I care about the details of what is right and what is wrong to create the best and most entertaining gambling experience possible because I am a passionate gambler who cares about the entertainment value of gambling. It has nothing at all to do with money and everything to do with pride and genuine passion and interest in the game. Something that not everybody has when it comes to this game.



I also play for the entertainment value of the game, but my notion of "entertainment" seems to differ substantially from yours.

You seem to be a bored with the "normal" casino experience, and for your own entertainment hope to "push the envelope" a bit til something gives; you seek action with the crew and the suits, not with the dice.

That's not how the game is meant to be played.

The box could see you were aching for an argument; he backed down, which was gracious of him.

But you continued to pull the thread on the sweater until it unraveled, leaving you looking silly with a bunch of wool in your hands as you stormed away from the table.

In life, it is better to make a friend than an enemy.
"What, me worry?"
Ahigh
Ahigh
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August 24th, 2014 at 9:38:53 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

But you continued to pull the thread on the sweater until it unraveled, leaving you looking silly with a bunch of wool in your hands as you stormed away from the table.



The truth is I was done gambling and I had already won. I didn't mind the excuse to leave. I threw in $3 more before I departed just to let the dealers know it had nothing to do with them.

But I wasn't upset about being pushed away as I was doing nothing but toking.

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