DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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December 24th, 2020 at 2:36:59 PM permalink
I don't remember where I saw it, but I once read that CSMs can be counted. Of course, the guy who wrote it might have been talking out of his ass. Be that as it may...

Consider the dealer procedure:

1 - He gets a stack of cards that are enough for several hands, depending on the number of players.
2 - When he is getting low on cards, he puts the discards in the shuffler, and takes a new stack out, placing them under the remaining cards in his hand.

There simply isn't enough time for those discards to be shuffled in before getting the new stack.

Furthermore, depending on the shuffler's design, the discards added might be shuffled in a manner where they are unlikely to come out the next time the dealer gets more cards.

So, considering all this, you keep 2 or maybe 3 different counts, that all go up or down together. You base your actions on the oldest count, then discard that count, and start using the next count, when the dealer gets more cards.

Does that make sense?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
fantom
fantom
Joined: Dec 19, 2020
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December 24th, 2020 at 2:39:08 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I know people who claim they can beat CSMs but then again, we know people who claim they can beat just about any game.


Claims aside...

Except for a slight advantage (or, just as likely, disadvantage) that would accrue until the used cards are placed back in the CSM, every round starts with a full compliment of cards - a running count of zero. If the cards are held back for a couple of rounds then the running count might vary from zero, but never so much that the true count would be effected greatly. Remember - the CSM is not continually shuffling even just two decks. More likely six or eight. At the beginning of a six or eight deck shoe being dealt by hand, there is no advantage. With a CSM every round essentially begins with a complete deck.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 25th, 2020 at 8:33:20 AM permalink
Would you prefer to play 3:2 BJ at a CSM table or 6:5 BJ at an ASM table? I'm thinking you still want 3:2 BJ.
Jean26
Jean26
Joined: Dec 22, 2020
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December 25th, 2020 at 9:05:06 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

Would you prefer to play 3:2 BJ at a CSM table or 6:5 BJ at an ASM table? I'm thinking you still want 3:2 BJ.



Yes 3/2 of course.
Any casinos ?
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 25th, 2020 at 10:55:51 AM permalink
I don't know what website keeps an up to date list of casinos that use CSM's and whether the CSM's disappeared when the plague came.
You will likely find them in the low limit and/or 6:5 BJ areas of the casino.
My local casino uses an ASM which I have no gripe with, yet.

There could be the lucky player who goes from a $300 buy-in to over $10K on a CSM, but that'd be the exception. Regular players notice it makes bad days worse, and good days not as good.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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December 25th, 2020 at 11:03:31 AM permalink
I would estimate we have 12 CSM's out of our 51 tables at Talking Stick Resort and 12 out of 40 at Casino Arizona, in Scottsdale. But we are also at 50% table use right now and 4 spots per table.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
WABJ11
WABJ11
Joined: Dec 26, 2020
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December 26th, 2020 at 1:59:34 AM permalink
Just how much shuffling do ASM痴 do? I致e always wondered if there was clumping with these machines. I can稚 imagine the shuffle is that great.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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December 26th, 2020 at 3:40:57 AM permalink
They'll have to reset the shufflers to 4 players instead of 7 players. Maybe they could try 4 deck shoes again.
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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December 26th, 2020 at 7:59:21 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

They'll have to reset the shufflers to 4 players instead of 7 players. Maybe they could try 4 deck shoes again.



Nah. When I set it to Beast Mode it automatically senses how many players there are, how many hands each player is playing, if they hit or stay on 16, if they double correctly and when someone joins or leaves the table.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
fantom
fantom
Joined: Dec 19, 2020
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December 26th, 2020 at 9:40:17 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange


They'll have to reset the shufflers to 4 players instead of 7 players. Maybe they could try 4 deck shoes again.



Quote: Zcore13

Nah. When I set it to Beast Mode it automatically senses how many players there are, how many hands each player is playing, if they hit or stay on 16, if they double correctly and when someone joins or leaves the table.



Oh no. Here we go again. I thought we had this discussion three or four times already.

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