Quote:DogHand...

...

Decks H/S 17 Total A-up 2-up 3-up other EV SD N0 8 S 1,081 232 429 254 166 8.1%1,040 164,761,6218 H 1,636 510 588 307 231 63.6%1,279 4,044,5416 S 1,051 202 459 212 178 5.1%1,025 404,075,7396 H 1,573 511 555 309 198 57.3%1,254 4,790,928

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

Also, I would like to know if there are additional hands to stand on based on the above table and the rules below:

$20 minimum bet on the regular game, and $1 is the only amount you can bet on the side bet,

6 - decks, S17, No Hole Card, double hard 9-11, DAS, split once, and the house edge for the regular game is 0.6612%

Below is one hand to get started and to see if I am correct with my reasoning/answers

note: some of my answers will be off slightly because I am using "infinite deck"

Deviating from basic strategy by standing on a 12 v 2 is the correct play, as deviating gives the player a total gain in EV of $4.089 for that hand and playing correct basic strategy is worth $3.131

Note: When hitting a 12 v 2 there is a 9/13 chance of not busting, when using "infinite deck" reasoning.

Numbers used for working out of 12 v 2 strategy deviation:

Total number of games: 1,000,000,000

Estimated number of times the dealer had any 2-up: 76,923,077

Total number of 8 card 21 with a dealer 2-up: 459

Estimated chance of an 8 card 21 with a dealer 2-up: 1/167,588

Is the above correct or not? If not can you show me the correct answer, and also answer the correct strategy for the hands below:

12 v 3,

12 v 4,

16 v A (I think traditional basic strategy is the correct play for this hand, but I am not sure)

and any other hands you can think of, if any, thanks.

Quote:dddkkk1Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

Also, I would like to know if there are additional hands to stand on based on the above table and the rules below:

<snip>

dddkkk1,

The numbers I gave are based on the assumption that the dealer finishes her hand whether or not any player hands are still active. Your latest post in this thread has me wondering if my assumption is true or not. Can you clarify? For example, if you are playing heads up and you bust or get a BJ, does your sidebet automatically lose?

Dog Hand

Quote:DogHanddddkkk1,

The numbers I gave are based on the assumption that the dealer finishes her hand whether or not any player hands are still active. Your latest post in this thread has me wondering if my assumption is true or not. Can you clarify? For example, if you are playing heads up and you bust or get a BJ, does your sidebet automatically lose?

Dog Hand

I asked the casino and they don't play out their hand when the player busts or gets a BJ

Thanks again everyone and sorry for not asking the casino about this before i wrote the OP.

Quote:dddkkk1I asked the casino and they don't play out their hand when the player busts or gets a BJ

Thanks again everyone and sorry for not asking the casino about this before i wrote the OP.

OK.... ALL the work the members did is useless now..... If this is online, and you are always playing one hand versus the house, then the player advantage certainly goes down a bit. Maybe doghand and the others will redo the math.....

Quote:dddkkk1

Also, I would like to know if there are additional hands to stand on based on the above table and the rules below:

$20 minimum bet on the regular game, and $1 is the only amount you can bet on the side bet,

6 - decks, S17, No Hole Card, double hard 9-11, DAS, split once, and the house edge for the regular game is 0.6612%

Below is one hand to get started and to see if I am correct with my reasoning/answers

note: some of my answers will be off slightly because I am using "infinite deck"

Deviating from basic strategy by standing on a 12 v 2 is the correct play, as deviating gives the player a total gain in EV of $4.089 for that hand and playing correct basic strategy is worth $3.131

Note: When hitting a 12 v 2 there is a 9/13 chance of not busting, when using "infinite deck" reasoning.

Numbers used for working out of 12 v 2 strategy deviation:

Total number of games: 1,000,000,000

Estimated number of times the dealer had any 2-up: 76,923,077

Total number of 8 card 21 with a dealer 2-up: 459

Estimated chance of an 8 card 21 with a dealer 2-up: 1/167,588

Is the above correct or not? If not can you show me the correct answer, and also answer the correct strategy for the hands below:

12 v 3,

12 v 4,

16 v A (I think traditional basic strategy is the correct play for this hand, but I am not sure)

and any other hands you can think of, if any, thanks.

Okay, I understand. The useful concept here is "Equity" of your hand.

When you have a $10 BJ wager and a sidebet of $1 and you are dealt 10-2 vs 2.

Equity of your hand if you STAND:

(1) about $5.97 on you BJ hand, because it has an approximate EV of -0.403

(2) about $5.97 (by coincidence) on your sidebet which has a 1/167,588 chance of winning one million

so your total STAND equity is $5.97 +$5.97 = $11.94

Equity of your hand if you HIT and you are one-on-one with the dealer

(1) about $6.34 on your BJ hand, because it has an approximate EV of -0.366

(2) because hitting a 10-2vs2 has a 31.07% chance of drawing TEN and busting, the equity of your sidebet is $4.11= (1-0.3107)*$5.97

so your Total HIT Equity is about $6.34 + $4.11 = $10.45.

So, in situations in which the dealer will not draw to his upcard 2 when you Bust your 12, you should STAND. If the dealer will draw to his hand anyway,regardless of whether you BUST, then you should HIT.

I haven't yet done the math, but I imagine that you should stand on 12 versus 2-4 (and on 13v2) and on 14,15,16vA if you are betting $5 (or $10) on BJ and $1 on a sidebet, and your chance of making the sidebet will become zero if you BUST your hand (because the dealer will not draw.)

I don't have time right now to do the analysis on all the other hands, maybe someone else will,

But here is the good news, the game is definitely the 6-deck H17 version, again bad description of the side bet made me err on it being S17 just to be safe.

Since it is H17, i think the game is "beatable" now, since the minimum bet is $20 and the house edge is about 0.88% for the main game,