D Day in Vegas
Quote: ZenKinGRead your own post again and realize you told me nothing new or anything i didnt know before. I know about the Slade case as someone on the forum mentioned that to me. You realize the Slade case says nothing about the ability to trespass you right. The right to exclude doesnt mean the right to trespass you from ever entering again, those are two different terminolgies. It just gives them the right to back you off. Proof of this is the current NRS statute that I cited above that no gaming establishment may RESTRICT the public from entering their establishment for any reason.
Glad I could clear up the bluff once again. By the way, Paris already 'trespassed' me twice lol. So much for the ability to trespass you, why didnt they arrest me? Oh wait, they cant. And oh wait, no police was ever present at the time of the first trespass. And oh wait no trespass act was read to me. And guesd what? Thry will never be able to have the police present in time because i play short sessions and there wont be enough time for them to show up. I actually want to go to court though and I wont meed the help of Bob Nersesian.
Good luck to you.
Quote: MrBoGood luck to you.
Now you get it.
What has now happened is you have been logged as a Trespass on the first date. Readvised on the second date. And while I am unsure of the true legality of it all- see a lawyer, should you return, security at their discretion may detain to press charges against you. They will explain to metro the first and second (or more times) you were peacefully advised before detainment occurred metro will issue a trespass citation.
How annoying going to court is depends on your particular mindset.
Also, fwiw, with most of the multi property corporations out here, a trespass from one is essentially a trespass from all under the same corporate umbrella. Claiming no knowledge of that fact may get you out of the first citation, but not out of the detainment. You will then be strongly advised to sign their trespass form that you completely understand by the officer so that everyone can just go on their way. This will again be used to document evidence for future charges filed (misdemeanors).
Lastly, while there are rogue locations that trespass quickly, the majority use it as a last resort - especially for advantage players. You would have to really irritate someone for them to go that far.
Quote: LVJackalNot restricting the public as a whole does not apply to every individual person.
What has now happened is you have been logged as a Trespass on the first date. Readvised on the second date. And while I am unsure of the true legality of it all- see a lawyer, should you return, security at their discretion may detain to press charges against you. They will explain to metro the first and second (or more times) you were peacefully advised before detainment occurred metro will issue a trespass citation.
How annoying going to court is depends on your particular mindset.
Also, fwiw, with most of the multi property corporations out here, a trespass from one is essentially a trespass from all under the same corporate umbrella. Claiming no knowledge of that fact may get you out of the first citation, but not out of the detainment. You will then be strongly advised to sign their trespass form that you completely understand by the officer so that everyone can just go on their way. This will again be used to document evidence for future charges filed (misdemeanors).
Lastly, while there are rogue locations that trespass quickly, the majority use it as a last resort - especially for advantage players. You would have to really irritate someone for them to go that far.
Yeah, I wont be signing anything.
Detain me? For what crime? Metro? They won't be there fast enough. Im in and out after 30 minutes.
Good luck detaining me for a non-crime. That should go well in court.
They advised me of a trespass? When? I dont remember anything. Good luck proving it. Maybe casinos need to get some audio on these surveillance cameras.
Good luck reading me the trespass act, ill be walking out the door before they open their mouths. You think I'm gonna just stand there?
"Not restricting the public as a whole does not apply to every individual person."
LOL. Please read what you just wrote. Let me guess, you work or have some relation with these casinos. Guess what? I will be the worst thing that ever happened to you guys. I'm not going anywhere and I won't be bluffed. I'm also not leaving this town until I have a court decision in my favor and i dont care if my bankroll goes to 0 fighting it. The Vegas casino intimidation and bluffs are coming to an end soon.
Security has limited detainment powers - regularly abused - where they can conduct a citizen's arrest and must immediately notify law enforcement. On their side will be documented incidents, with statements from the security involved, that you were advised of being trespassed. By returning, you commit a misdemeanor and may now legally be detained pending arrival from metro so that the establishment may press charges.
The proof is the documentation by security and the supporting video.
Quote: LVJackalI'm typing this just because that is how it is, and to hopefully shed some light on what can happen. Not to argue. With Paris, there are two logged incidents where you have been trespassed, and readvised. Returning is the crime.
Security has limited detainment powers - regularly abused - where they can conduct a citizen's arrest and must immediately notify law enforcement. On their side will be documented incidents, with statements from the security involved, that you were advised of being trespassed. By returning, you commit a misdemeanor and may now legally be detained pending arrival from metro so that the establishment may press charges.
The proof is the documentation by security and the supporting video.
I suggest you shed some light to the casinos, not to me. I'm not the one who's going to be in trouble after this.
Why didn't they arrest me the 2nd time then? You know why? Because it's all a BLUFF. I nearly fell on the floor laughing after the pit manager told the security guy to 'Trespass him again'. It's almost like a joke. They have no power whatsoever and the law tells you in plain english what our rights are and what they can and cannot do. Education is power my friends. The only people who live in fear are the uneducated.
Oh we're committing illegal citizen's arrests now? Brilliant. These drone security guards are gonna learn the mistakes of being uneducated and following orders not knowing what they're doing. Ill add them to the lawsuit. Every casino knows a trespass for card counting will just be dismissed and it's not worth the hassle. They also know they have no power and are acting illegally at least in vegas; and the rest of the country is at best a grey area so they don't even bother.
Sorry documentation by security is irrelevant. Anyone can write anything down. Supporting video doesn't show whether it's a backoff or a trespass. There is also no trespass act being read and nothing being signed. You also need the police present at the time of a trespass and warned that upon return you will be arrested. Paris is lucky they got my ID at the cage the first time and they have my name, but good luck to any other casino getting my ID cause it will never be shown again regardless of their bluffing and fake threats, even at the cage, they're not allowed to get my ID, so good luck to them confiscating my chips or 'holding' them because that's illegal as well.
Nice try. Keep it coming. Ill finish what Ken Uston started. If these corrupt Nevada courts don't want to hear the case, these judges will be sued as well. The party's coming to an end very soon.
Ding ding ding. First order of business is to challenge the constitutionality of NRS 463.0129. It's void for vagueness and violates the due process clauses of the 4th and 5th amendment.
And what do we know regarding unconstitutional statutes? Let's take a look at American Jurisprudence.
16 Am Jur 2d, Sec 177 late 2d, Sec 256:
"No one Is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it."
The legality of all of this is beyond me, but it is standard practice - for many years. See Nolan Dalla's efforts to get a $5k mgm chip redeemed.
The fines casinos face for underage gaming can reach the millions. As with liquor or tobacco sales, they are afforded some leeway in determining if a patron could possibly be underage. Add into this, the rampant theft of chips, even more leeway is granted. Where legal meets illegal I do not know for certain.
Anyhow, each location has their own threshold for verifying play prior to cash out. Each also has a limit where they will request identification, and of course the legal limit where they must have it. You can claim you just came from whichever pit and that your age was verified there, they will confirm and no identification need be shown - provided they are not legally required.
If- by some obscene stretch of the imagination - they elect to confiscate the chips, they must contact GCB and provide (what they deem) a legitimate reason. You will be provided a receipt for their value and possibly a contact number for GCB.
Additional, possibly valuable, information: recently, I do not remember where, a law enforcement agency was successfully sued for sharing information with a casino. This sets great precedence, please look it up. Maybe 5-10 years ago, possible illegal structuring was used as an excuse against another advantage player - again, do research, as you previously stated, knowledge is power. And finally, buy every book by Bob Nersesian (had to google that unfortunate surname)~ he accurately predicted the grey area Ivey played into with edge sorting... invaluable information.
This argument sounds eerily similar to the one used against the legality of the IRS. Quoted from google half arsed search "Filing a federal income tax return is, in fact, voluntary, because there is no statute or regulation that requires the vast majority of U.S. citizens to file and pay income taxes -- or to have taxes withheld from the money they earn. Neither the IRS nor the Congress can cite an authorizing law or regulation".
When push comes to shove, what do you realistically think will happen? Citing this lack of legality earns (I believe) a $600 fine from the IRS. How many laws could not pass the vagueness doctrine? Either in US or UK (common) Law?
While your argument maybe valid (in theory), in actuality what do you give your success rate vs. funds invested fighting it?
Quote: ZenKinGBecause it's all a BLUFF.
Nice try. Keep it coming. Ill finish what Ken Uston started.
I'm saying YOU are the one bluffing. Go back to Paris. Announce that you have been trespassed twice before. Say you want to play some BJ. Tell us what happens.
In the words of a waiter many years ago at one of Chicago’s finest restaurants to a young man who just wanted a Day off...”I weep for the future”.
Quote: BozOk math guys, can anyone calculate how much potential winnings ZK loses each day by posting this drivel instead of actually playing?
In the words of a waiter many years ago at one of Chicago’s finest restaurants to a young man who just wanted a Day off...”I weep for the future”.
I can't weigh in there, but I did think the way you kept score in blackjack was with chips.
If the casino used a floor of staff attorneys to errode ZKs stack with court dates and challenges, wouldn't that lead to the same end result as beating him at blackjack?
Watching this guy blunder through case law and statutes is what I imagine it would look like if Pa Kettle took up brain surgery out of the blue.
In this case, that old truism would apply: "Physician, heal thyself."
ahem
Quote: ZenKinGany judge that doesnt follow the Constitution can be held for treason and sent to prison regardless of what they think about it. They also are not allowed to 'interpret' any part of the Constitution because all of the interpretations were already done by our founding fathers in the Federalist Papers and Madisons Notes.
Quote: SOOPOOI'm saying YOU are the one bluffing. Go back to Paris. Announce that you have been trespassed twice before. Say you want to play some BJ. Tell us what happens.
Agreed. Please return to Paris LV and tell us what happens. You can laugh all of you want.
Fact is:
- Any casino can bar you from its premises from no reason (make you leave). Any interaction with security personell will be written up for backup purposes.
- At some point, if you refuse to leave, they will detain you (backroom), call Metro, and charge you with trespassing, and you will leave the premise, either escorted by Metro, or taken to jail until you see the judge the following morning. Now, of course, casinos would just prefer to have you leave. It's much less work for them.
- Legal pockets of CZR/MGM/Sands/Wynn are extremely deep.
- You can self-defend all you want. You may win or you may lose. Given case law, you will likely lose. And if you win, it will be due to a technicality, not because you are right. If you win, you won't be able to simply hold your legal decision up high, walk into the Paris and start declaring what the true count is on the shoe-based game that you are playing.
In short, you are not above the law. And it is very unlikely that you will be able to change the law.
Quote: boymimboAgreed. Please return to Paris LV and tell us what happens. You can laugh all of you want.
Fact is:
- Any casino can bar you from its premises from no reason (make you leave). Any interaction with security personell will be written up for backup purposes.
- At some point, if you refuse to leave, they will detain you (backroom), call Metro, and charge you with trespassing, and you will leave the premise, either escorted by Metro, or taken to jail until you see the judge the following morning. Now, of course, casinos would just prefer to have you leave. It's much less work for them.
- Legal pockets of CZR/MGM/Sands/Wynn are extremely deep.
- You can self-defend all you want. You may win or you may lose. Given case law, you will likely lose. And if you win, it will be due to a technicality, not because you are right. If you win, you won't be able to simply hold your legal decision up high, walk into the Paris and start declaring what the true count is on the shoe-based game that you are playing.
In short, you are not above the law. And it is very unlikely that you will be able to change the law.
ZK never said that they can't make him leave. He said they can't legally detain him for coming back since he was never justly trespassed, in his opinion. There's a difference between being backed off for AP and being trespassed for AP. I'm NOT defending his position, just attempting to clarify.
Quote: RogerKintZK never said that they can't make him leave. He said they can't legally detain him for coming back since he was never justly trespassed, in his opinion. There's a difference between being backed off for AP and being trespassed for AP. I'm NOT defending his position, just attempting to clarify.
Casinos over their history have seen everything, and they've seen people like ZK and all iterations thereof. To them ZK is just another flea. Now, he might be a little more difficult to catch and may buzz around a bit more and make a bit more noise, but ZK is not special or even particularly interesting to them.
The fact that he thinks that he is unique and special, or believes that his point of views and knowledge are better than our collective experiences (not my own) is troubling. Delusional.
Quote: boymimboCasinos over their history have seen everything, and they've seen people like ZK and all iterations thereof. To them ZK is just another flea. Now, he might be a little more difficult to catch and may buzz around a bit more and make a bit more noise, but ZK is not special or even particularly interesting to them.
The fact that he thinks that he is unique and special, or believes that his point of views and knowledge are better than our collective experiences (not my own) is troubling. Delusional.
When it comes to going toe to toe with casinos over legal matters, better him than I. I wish him luck and success.
Friend works for the LVRJ, he can get your story on the paper when it happens
Quote: boymimbo
The fact that he thinks that he is unique and special, or believes that his point of views and knowledge are better than our collective experiences (not my own) is troubling. Delusional.
I am still thinking that this whole account is just a hoax because everything he says is so ridiculous. I know members here have met him but I am beginning to believe it is a whole conspiracy to generate forum posts. He just can't be real.
Quote: DRichI am still thinking that this whole account is just a hoax because everything he says is so ridiculous. I know members here have met him but I am beginning to believe it is a whole conspiracy to generate forum posts. He just can't be real.
Oh....he is real. I understand your disbelief though. You would like him if you met him.
Quote: DRichI am still thinking that this whole account is just a hoax because everything he says is so ridiculous. I know members here have met him but I am beginning to believe it is a whole conspiracy to generate forum posts. He just can't be real.
Maybe he's a screen writer and is spending a little too much time with this specific character
Don Quixote had Sancho.
Herakles had a number of them.
Every hero needs a Companion. Someone to carry his water , offer council and help guide thru difficult times.
ZK needs a companion. It's perfectly oblivious. No?
Quote: billryanFrodo had Samwise.
Don Quixote had Sancho.
Herakles had a number of them.
Every hero needs a Companion. Someone to carry his water , offer council and help guide thru difficult times.
ZK needs a companion. It's perfectly oblivious. No?
No. I think the opposite is true. ZK against the world. Even when people offer friendship and camaraderie, he would prefer to relate to them (us) as doubters or adversaries. We're not Sancho, we're windmills.
Not intended as criticism. It's how he works, how he motivates himself. So whatever, IMO.
Quote: beachbumbabswe're windmills.
Nahhhh, windmills!? Ugh....don't get me started. Those b****** things are evil. 100% pure evil.
Quote: beachbumbabs... he would prefer to relate to them (us) as doubters or adversaries. We're not Sancho, we're windmills.
Not intended as criticism. It's how he works, how he motivates himself. So whatever, IMO.
Relief. Words for what I was thinking. Thanks for this. It's dead on my thoughts.
Which is why I'm secretly invested in this. Kid might got the stuff.
I used "kid" non-ironically. This fact makes me sad.
Quote: MaxPenOh....he is real. I understand your disbelief though. You would like him if you met him.
Really?
What's there to like?
I mean, how could a bit of chit chat overcome a strongly negative opinion based upon months of viewing his posts?
Quote: RSNahhhh, windmills!? Ugh....don't get me started. Those b****** things are evil. 100% pure evil.
It's a Don Quixote thing, brah. It was in the book. He was delusional, thinking they were giant knights attacking him with many swords.
But, yes,.modern windmills are really something, and it's not good. Millions of.birds getting killed when they're put up on migratory paths.
I almost have a phobia about them. The way they sound gets into my bones in a very uncomfortable way. Just how the Ents sound (in my head) from LOTR, before I saw the movie.
There's an airport on the north end of the Big Island that has a bunch of them immediately beside the runway, and it's nearly terrifying, how close you have to fly to them when you use it.
Quote: MrVReally?
What's there to like?
I mean, how could a bit of chit chat overcome a strongly negative opinion based upon months of viewing his posts?
It takes all different types of people to make the world go around. It would be pretty boring if everyone was of the same mindset. The good thing about this community is its diversity. I haven't met anyone that is not decent. Well maybe one or two💩🤔.The cast of characters here would make for one hell of a story. Negative online opinions are only there to be overcome in person.
Quote: beachbumbabsIt's a Don Quixote thing
Speaking of which, I was surprised to learn that "Don Quixote" is the novel which has sold more copies than any other novel in history.
Funny thing is both Don Quixote and Dickens are required reading in many high school and college course, which has to have helped sales significantly.
Quixote is also easily available in both English and Spanish as well as dozens of other languages. Pre- Peter Jackson and the internet, getting Spanish copies of LOTRs was difficult, to put it mildly.
Quote: billryanWhen we get together, we try to keep things light. Just because you can't stand someone, doesn't mean you can't be civil for a couple of hours.
Is this why everyone is so nice to me at Spring Fling?
Quote: PokerGrinderIs this why everyone is so nice to me at Spring Fling?
Naw. You're Canadian. Neutral territory.
Also, you're living a.life a lot of people here would like to experience. Takes money, guts, freedom, and a neutral passport to do what you're doing.
I've done some similar adventures, but not to the degree you've taken it.
Also, nice gets nice back. Maybe you've got us fooled. But you're a likeable guy.
Quote: beachbumbabsNaw. You're Canadian. Neutral territory.
Also, you're living a.life a lot of people here would like to experience. Takes money, guts, freedom, and a neutral passport to do what you're doing.
I've done some similar adventures, but not to the degree you've taken it.
Also, nice gets nice back. Maybe you've got us fooled. But you're a likeable guy.
I’m glad that I’ve fooled you all over the last 3 years 🤣
Money, guts, freedom and a neutral passport. Neutral passport was just the luck of where I was born. Money, it doesn’t cost as much to travel as everyone thinks. Most people spend money daily at Starbucks for coffee, eating out for lunch, smoking, drinking or whatever other things you might enjoy. I just prioritize travel over those things. Cut back on these things and you will be able to afford a flight anywhere in the world in 6 months or less. You can take a 2 week trip, you don’t have to longer just cause others do. I am blessed with the freedom of not being tied down, I can’t argue that one. Guts, meh. Everyone has it in them to see the world, you just have to take the leap.
Quote: TomGComing up on almost one year since this whole thing started and the current status is that ZenKing is world class in multiple events and the greatest legal mind in the state, yet still has to resort to sleeping in his car in order to keep annual spending below teenagers who work at McDonald's part-time.
Sure, but he chooses to do this. He could make crazy money- maybe $800-$1,000 a week if he chose to. Just be happy he doesn't go work for the dark side.
Quote: TomGComing up on almost one year since this whole thing started and the current status is that ZenKing is world class in multiple events and the greatest legal mind in the state, yet still has to resort to sleeping in his car in order to keep annual spending below teenagers who work at McDonald's part-time.
Visitors to this thread are shocked to learn that the greatest card counter in the world made $2000 last year. It’s probably keeping a lot of aspiring counters from entering the profession.
Quote: billryanSure, but he chooses to do this. He could make crazy money- maybe $800-$1,000 a week if he chose to. Just be happy he doesn't go work for the dark side.
People at the very top of their fields earn double that. Per hour. Or more.
With one exception. . .
Quote: billryanJust be happy he doesn't go work for the dark side.
Maybe he should, so he can prove to himself that his Accusations are just crazy talk
ZK came to Vegas, knew more about everything than anyone else ,and made a $2,000 profit in a year. I suspect his abilities are well proven at this point.
I have neighbors who get more than that in free play offers they throw away.
Quote: billryanBetter to sit in the dark making half assed accusations than play in the sunlight and be proven a fraud.
ZK came to Vegas, knew more about everything than anyone else ,and made a $2,000 profit in a year. I suspect his abilities are well proven at this point.
I have neighbors who get more than that in free play offers they throw away.
Yea keep misleading everyone by saying 2k in the 'last year' when in fact it was just 235 hours. Also it hasnt even been a year, its been 10 months. Go ahead and let everyone know how much Ive made in 1065 hours, then get back to me. Its obvious youre trolling me at this point just to get a reaction, but im 2 smart for any shenanigans. Lastly then go ahead and tell me how much the average person works in a year. 2000 hours? Wow apples to apples comparison for sure. Im just chilling playing part time these 1065 hours.
Quote: ZenKinGYea keep misleading everyone by saying 2k in the 'last year' when in fact it was just 235 hours. Also it hasnt even been a year, its been 10 months. Go ahead and let everyone know how much Ive made in 1065 hours, then get back to me. Its obvious youre trolling me at this point just to get a reaction, but im 2 smart for any shenanigans. Lastly then go ahead and tell me how much the average person works in a year. 2000 hours? Wow apples to apples comparison for sure. Im just chilling playing part time these 1065 hours.
$2k / 235 hours = $8.51 a hour... Right? I'll defer to the math experts for any calculation errors.
Quote: prozema$2k / 235 hours = $8.51 a hour... Right? I'll defer to the math experts for any calculation errors.
$43,459.50 / 1069 hours = $40.65 an hour. Ill defer to the math experts for any calculation errors.
Quote: ZenKinG$43,459.50 / 1069 hours = $40.65 an hour. Ill defer to the math experts for any calculation errors.
I believe that sets the record straight. Thanks ZK.
Quote: ZenKinG$43,459.50 / 1069 hours = $40.65 an hour. Ill defer to the math experts for any calculation errors.
ZK, if you can consistently make $40 an hour and do it AS MANY HOURS as you want, then you are headed for a successful career as an AP. But if the nature of your play limits you to some small number of hours, then even a 'good' game that gets you $40 an hour is not enough to make it better than a 'regular' job.
