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mgreiche
mgreiche
Joined: Mar 13, 2011
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April 27th, 2011 at 1:37:37 PM permalink
As of now, the Foxwoods website indicates that for BJ, "Dealers must stand on all totals of 17 or higher". If they make the change to hit on S17 I hope they will update their website to reflect this change.

I make the trip to Foxwoods about once a month. Since the Newport Room is a little out of my range, I won't be playing at Foxwoods now with a .65% house edge. Looks like the Sun will become my new home for BJ.

Thanks for the info.
benbakdoff
benbakdoff
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April 27th, 2011 at 4:47:30 PM permalink
Quote: mgreiche

As of now, the Foxwoods website indicates that for BJ, "Dealers must stand on all totals of 17 or higher". If they make the change to hit on S17 I hope they will update their website to reflect this change.

I make the trip to Foxwoods about once a month. Since the Newport Room is a little out of my range, I won't be playing at Foxwoods now with a .65% house edge. Looks like the Sun will become my new home for BJ.

Thanks for the info.



Don't expect them to advertise it on their website. I certainly wouldn't. This is a great opportunity for Mohegan Sun. They should be advertising their 6 deck S17 games and offering promotions aimed at luring players away from Foxwoods.
benbakdoff
benbakdoff
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April 28th, 2011 at 11:54:13 AM permalink
Quote: lucky13

Thanks Ben. Good Info. Hopefully Mohegan sees it as a competitive advantage, rather than the duopoly. Was thinking about going this weekend to get my poker on. Has the poker room been busier since the online ban? (sorry, a bit off topic)[/q

Did you mean poker at Foxwoods or Mohegan Sun? I've met quite a few first timers at both casinos recently and some were very young. I never thought to associate it with the online problems. Many poker players enjoy a little blackjack to pass the time.

I will be at Foxwoods tomorrow morning to personally verify the change in the blackjack rules. I'll post my findings around this time tomorrow, so that anyone planning a weekend trip will have the information.

odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 28th, 2011 at 2:16:51 PM permalink
please do report back!
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
benbakdoff
benbakdoff
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April 29th, 2011 at 10:54:57 AM permalink
Every blackjack table at Foxwoods is now H17 with the last of the felts being replaced last night. There is no change to the Newport Room. MGM Grand is S17 right now, but is scheduled to be H17 by the beginning of next week. There is a small high limit room with blackjack only in MGM and the fate of those tables is undecided. The general opinion is that they will remain six deck S17.

On April 22, Foxwoods announced the hiring of Frank Leone as Vice President, Table Games. Mr. Leone's last position was casino manager at Trump Taj Mahal. Prior to that he was assistant casino shift manager at Caesars Atlantic City and has over 20 years at Harrah's Entertainment. Speculation is that the new guy wants to shake things up.

Hitting soft 17 raises the house edge. If you are a basic strategy player, weekend player, or any type of casual player just there for fun - GO TO MOHEGAN SUN ! It's a no brainer. With 6 decks and S17 the house edge is lower, you will lose less and they will grandfather you- Foxwoods won't. Pit personnel have been instructed to downplay this change. Do not listen to them!

It's not so cut and dry for card counters because there are other factors involved.
teddys
teddys
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April 29th, 2011 at 11:10:44 AM permalink
As Bill Zender says in "Casino-ology" there is NO QUESTION that casinos should make this change. The general public does not know the difference between S17 and H17, and the gain you get from the increased house edge will more than offset the bitching and leaving from the knowledgeable players (who you don't want in your casino anyway).

Me? I'll be going to Mohegan Sun.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
zerosum79
zerosum79
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April 29th, 2011 at 11:33:50 AM permalink
Looks like the economy is hitting the casinos hard and they are looking to pick up the slack where players don't notice. Too bad when the economy picks up this will be the new norm and will never switch back.

BJ games just keep getting worse.
zero
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 29th, 2011 at 12:42:41 PM permalink
Quote: teddys

The general public does not know the difference between S17 and H17 . . . .

Count me as part of the general public that doesn't know.

In fact, there are TWO things I don't know.



I can never remember if S17 / H17 stands for Stand/Hit or Soft/Hard, although I realize it makes more sense to be the former.

But then I see comments like this, from the first post on this page:
Quote: mgreiche

If they make the change to hit on S17...




The other thing I can't figure out is why it's better if the dealer stands on soft 17.

I mean, if I don't hit a weak hand like a 15 because the dealer is showing a 6, don't I WANT him to hit if he's got an ace?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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April 29th, 2011 at 12:57:35 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear


The other thing I can't figure out is why it's better if the dealer stands on soft 17.

I mean, if I don't hit a weak hand like a 15 because the dealer is showing a 6, don't I WANT him to hit if he's got an ace?



As player, the hitting on a lot of the "softs" is not particularly intuitive. You pretty much hit or double with soft 18 against most dealer hands, for instance. So it would seem my gut feeling that hitting these hands is a path to disaster is not reliable.

And you never stand on soft 17. Evidently for Dealer there is advantage to hitting too; it's surprising how much it matters.
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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April 29th, 2011 at 1:28:29 PM permalink
I think you missed my point. Or I didn't express it very well.


If I have 15 and the dealer is showing a 6, I expect him to take a hit. So hitting on soft 17 is what I expect. Further, if the hit card is 5-9, then his total is 12-16 and he's got a shot at busting, which is what you were hoping for all along.

Oh, sure, he's got a better chance that the hit card will give him a total of 17-21, or that the hit is 5-9 and the next hit gives him 17-21, but if I have 15, it's no different than if he stood on soft 17. Therefore, it seems to me, I'd want him to hit that soft 17.

---

The Wiz' strategy card has few differences for 4-8 decks between S17 and H17. One I find intriguing is soft 19 v 6. Stand on S17, double on H17.

In my mind, the reason for this difference is that the chance that he's got the ace makes it not worth it on a S17 table. But on a H17 table, the dealer has more chances to bust, so the double becomes worth it.

So, again, H17 seems preferable to me.





Please note:

I am NOT trying to refute the math that says S17 is better for the player than H17.

I'm just trying to point out why a member of the general public (like myself) may think that H17 is better.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁 Note that the same could be said for Religion. I.E. Religion is nothing more than organized superstition. 🤗

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