kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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December 12th, 2015 at 10:09:03 PM permalink
Quote: Wino

Hi KJ,

Thanks for the insightful trip report. My question is about your short hit and run style. Do you tip the dealers if you were to have a winning session instead and what size win would entail tipping if any. Or would you not tip playing this way regardless? Do you think that a symbolic tip at the end of a session would create more of a friendly environment and beneficial for blending in and for future return trips? Thanks

Regards,
Wino



Hey happy 1 year WoV member anniversary...Wino. :)

Oh boy......the tipping bugaboo. There are/have been many threads on tipping. Lol. I am not a big tipper.

First I don't tip as some card counter do trying/hoping to get better penetration. Because I play such short sessions, I probably wouldn't even benefit from deeper penetration in future shoes....I am probably gone before they occur....if they occur. Also because of my very short session, hit and run approach, it isn't like I am sitting at one table for a long time enjoying or appreciating that particular dealer.

Most of my sessions are less than 30 minutes, some less than 10 minutes. My advantage is very slim. Take the short session described in my 'trip report'. EV was $26. What am I going to tip? If I throw a nickel as I leave I have given up 20% of my EV!

So call me what you want (and many members here do), I am not a big tipper. The most I do is throw an odd $2.50 that I have from a blackjack or insurance wager to the dealer when I exit, just so I have less to carry.
AB21
AB21
Joined: Dec 2, 2012
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December 13th, 2015 at 7:36:57 AM permalink
Great post as usual Kewlj. I always enjoy reading about your blackjack adventures. My question relates to your "counter trap" comment. I recall you making this comment at least once before when you mentioned the Golden Nugget DD game specifically. Do you say these games are a trap because you have been caught in them before and you think the casinos use DD games as a way to identity counters? Or is it just because DD games don't fit in with a hit and run style and playing them really exposes your spread? I am guessing that the counter traps occurr mainly at casinos with lower tolerance levels, but would like to hear more of your insights on this topic. Again, thanks for sharing a day in the life...
kewlj
kewlj
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December 13th, 2015 at 8:31:36 AM permalink
Quote: AB21

Great post as usual Kewlj. I always enjoy reading about your blackjack adventures. My question relates to your "counter trap" comment. I recall you making this comment at least once before when you mentioned the Golden Nugget DD game specifically. Do you say these games are a trap because you have been caught in them before and you think the casinos use DD games as a way to identity counters? Or is it just because DD games don't fit in with a hit and run style and playing them really exposes your spread? I am guessing that the counter traps occurr mainly at casinos with lower tolerance levels, but would like to hear more of your insights on this topic. Again, thanks for sharing a day in the life...



"Counter trap" is a term I use to describe many double deck games in Vegas. While I doubt they are setting up a game for the sole purpose of attracting and catching counters ( a few DD games on the strip almost seems like it), the phrase generally just means these games are closely hawked and protected, based on both my own experiences and a few other players that I network with.

Some of the places that have these closely watched DD games, have shoe games at the next table that they are much more tolerant with. So, if you are a player that rolls into town once or twice a year, you can afford to risk these better double deck games, but if you live here, or play here regularly, playing these games can kill any hope of longevity in this town, so you are better of skipping them and focusing on the shoe games.

Hit and run style is still compatible with double deck games with some adjustments. Unlike most 6 deck games I play where I only show my spread a single time before exit, I generally will show my spread at least a couple times, usually 2-3 at double deck before exiting because I play with a smaller spread with DD and there are things you can do to cover up a bit and make your spread look even less, like spreading BOTH ways. This will cut down on that biggest of 'tells', retreating back from a max bet to a minimum bet after a shuffle.
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
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December 13th, 2015 at 9:31:31 AM permalink
Vegas wisdom.
Not Southern, definitely not Southern.
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
kewlj
kewlj
Joined: Apr 17, 2012
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December 13th, 2015 at 9:55:58 AM permalink
Quote: TwoFeathersATL

Vegas wisdom.
Not Southern, definitely not Southern.



Can you expand on that 2F, as I am not 100% sure what you are getting at.

I think what you are saying is that my approach, which is tailored for my situation of living in Vegas and most of my play taking place here, would not work other places. And I agree with that 100%.

Just this week Munchkin and Dancer interviewed a card counter (link below), not professional, but I guess semi-pro, who is based in the south and some of the things he talked about, his approach, casino limits, even casino procedures, were like so foreign to me, I found myself saying "Whoa".

I guess the moral is that you tailor your game and approach for the opportunities you have.

BTW, if the card counter, "Mike" that was interviewed is a member here, as he indicated he participates on several forum, I have some follow up questions, I would like to ask in private.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M3hKk_Z7ZrM
kewlj
kewlj
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December 13th, 2015 at 10:02:15 AM permalink
Well that link doesn't work as I planned. Not sure why. I will have to figure it out after football. In the meantime, I think you can go to Munchkin's site or the gambling with an edge site and listen to the show.
AB21
AB21
Joined: Dec 2, 2012
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December 13th, 2015 at 10:10:37 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Can you expand on that 2F, as I am not 100% sure what you are getting at.



For once I have a guess of what 2F may be getting at :). Maybe it was your comment about the Rodeo crowd. My wife and I made a pact never to return to Vegas again during Rodeo week. Not so much because of the "crowd" as they can be mildly entertaining at times, but more so the pain of listening to that music all week!
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
Joined: May 22, 2013
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December 13th, 2015 at 10:14:59 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Can you expand on that 2F, as I am not 100% sure what you are getting at.

I think what you are saying is that my approach, which is tailored for my situation of living in Vegas and most of my play taking place here, would not work other places. And I agree with that 100%.

Just this week Munchkin and Dancer interviewed a card counter (link below), not professional, but I guess semi-pro, who is based in the south and some of the things he talked about, his approach, casino limits, even casino procedures, were like so foreign to me, I found myself saying "Whoa".

I guess the moral is that you tailor your game and approach for the opportunities you have.

BTW, if the card counter, "Mike" that was interviewed is a member here, as he indicated he participates on several forum, I have some follow up questions, I would like to ask in private.

[video=youtube;M3hKk_Z7ZrM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M3hKk_Z7ZrM[/video]


Longer response than was deserved.
You are "cool" regardless ;-). (Only slightly hidden joke in a joke).
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
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December 13th, 2015 at 10:41:48 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj

Well that link doesn't work as I planned. Not sure why. I will have to figure it out after football. In the meantime, I think you can go to Munchkin's site or the gambling with an edge site and listen to the show.



I fixed it because I wanted to watch it. Sorry if that was presumptuous! lol...hit "edit" or "quote" if you want to see what I did. You can delete the link below the video if you want to; it's not needed, but I left it because I didn't want to edit your post more than the minimum to make it work.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
sabre
sabre
Joined: Aug 16, 2010
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December 13th, 2015 at 11:00:24 AM permalink
Quote: kewlj


Most of my sessions are less than 30 minutes, some less than 10 minutes. My advantage is very slim. Take the short session described in my 'trip report'. EV was $26. What am I going to tip? If I throw a nickel as I leave I have given up 20% of my EV!



I've made a similar comment before. I don't necessarily disagree with your tipping philosophy. However, dealers don't expect you to tip on a short losing or breakeven session. So if you throw a red chip on a non trivial win during a $26 EV session, that tip is really costing you about $2 in the long run. So, a bit under 10% of your EV. Significant, but not nearly as bad as the 20% you claim.

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