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Beethoven9th
Beethoven9th
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February 8th, 2013 at 6:08:35 AM permalink
Does anyone else see players continually misplaying Ace-7, or Soft 18? This seems to be the most misplayed hand in Blackjack (in my own personal observations, of course). Even some dealers give me strange looks whenever I hit or double, and I just shake my head.
Fighting BS one post at a time!
dwheatley
dwheatley
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February 8th, 2013 at 6:25:16 AM permalink
Most people stand, against all cards. And occasionally give you a hard time when you do something different. Maybe... 1 in 20 players know that sometimes it is correct to hit or double. Some dealers I've met know too. I'd agree it's probably the universally most misplayed hand.

As an aside, I once met a Spanish21 dealer that knew to hit 3 card 17s against an A. That is dedication.
Wisdom is the quality that keeps you out of situations where you would otherwise need it
boymimbo
boymimbo
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February 8th, 2013 at 7:25:32 AM permalink
I got yelled at by everyone when I hit my soft 18 against the 10 last night at Switch playing 3rd base. I got an 8 (derision), then 4 to get 20. The dealer unfortunately had 14 and hit the 6 to get to 20 and kick pretty much everyone's ass at the table. The dealer would have had 22 otherwise.

I yelled back at them. They left.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 8th, 2013 at 7:49:03 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
1BB
1BB
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February 8th, 2013 at 7:54:03 AM permalink
Quote: Beethoven9th

Does anyone else see players continually misplaying Ace-7, or Soft 18? This seems to be the most misplayed hand in Blackjack (in my own personal observations, of course). Even some dealers give me strange looks whenever I hit or double, and I just shake my head.



I think we had a thread like this but let me add splitting 4s and 9s and the always controversial 12 vs 2 and 3. Add to that the changes to a H17 game if you play one and you've got enough to start a riot!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 8th, 2013 at 8:02:26 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
boymimbo
boymimbo
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February 8th, 2013 at 8:04:00 AM permalink
Try hitting a 12 on a "4" at Blackjack Switch with a full table and then run!
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
bbvk05
bbvk05
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February 8th, 2013 at 8:05:03 AM permalink
People lose their damn minds when you double A,8 against a 6 in a H17 game.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 8th, 2013 at 8:50:58 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
1BB
1BB
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February 8th, 2013 at 8:54:26 AM permalink
Quote: Ibeatyouraces

I absolutely love doubling A,9 vs 5 or 6 when the count it high. Makes them run away as if you're splitting tens.



Now you're talkin'.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
YouCanBetOnThat
YouCanBetOnThat
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February 8th, 2013 at 9:15:05 AM permalink
We talked about soft 18, and how it's the most misplayed hand in blackjack, in the first episode of our podcast. Dr. Mike recalled the story of how he hit a soft 18 against the dealer's 10, and the dealer berated him mercilessly. "What a terrible move! You don't know what you're doing! I've been dealing this game for twenty years, blah, blah, blah."
YouCanBetOnThat.com, a podcast for the recreational gambler
1BB
1BB
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February 8th, 2013 at 9:19:46 AM permalink
Most dealers learn the game from ploppies.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Paradigm
Paradigm
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February 8th, 2013 at 10:40:40 AM permalink
What would be very interesting to see is a grid of basic strategy that you could alter for mistakes that are traditionally made by most players and see how the house edge is adjusted.

I can enivison a template where you can adjust the game rules (i.e. hit soft 17/stand soft 17, 2 decks vs. 6 decks, surrender, etc.) like you can in Wiz's template, but then also allow you to change the individual player decisions (i.e. never doubling on A/8, or not correctly splitting 9's, etc) and see what those errors contribute the that players actual H.E.

Big project for someone, but I bet that you could sell that for a nominal charge. Who's up for that, Mips/Teliot/ME/CrystalM/etc. I'd buy a copy for $20 or less.
ComplexEnigma
ComplexEnigma
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February 8th, 2013 at 9:32:08 PM permalink
The idea is to double a soft 18 against a loser dealer hand right? I gotta admit that I didn't know that at first but came to my attention when I was practicing on Wizard's blackjack trainer.

Maybe it's a good thing the dealer thinks you are an idiot if you double on a soft 18, maybe they will rate you at a higher house advantage.
bbvk05
bbvk05
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February 8th, 2013 at 9:39:15 PM permalink
Quote: ComplexEnigma

The idea is to double a soft 18 against a loser dealer hand right? I gotta admit that I didn't know that at first but came to my attention when I was practicing on Wizard's blackjack trainer.

Maybe it's a good thing the dealer thinks you are an idiot if you double on a soft 18, maybe they will rate you at a higher house advantage.




There is no such thing as a loser dealer hand before you see the second card. Dealers bust less than 50% of the time on any upcard they are showing.

It's hard to give sound-bite reasons why one decision is different than others. If I had to give one I'd say that the chance of improving your hand is high enough that you want more money on the table, when balanced with the dealer's increased chance of busting.
Beardgoat
Beardgoat
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February 8th, 2013 at 10:04:03 PM permalink
The wiz's simple strategy says to stay with a 12 against a dealer 2....but the custom game says to hit. Why the difference?
bbvk05
bbvk05
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February 8th, 2013 at 10:07:44 PM permalink
Quote: Beardgoat

The wiz's simple strategy says to stay with a 12 against a dealer 2....but the custom game says to hit. Why the difference?




The simple strategy is designed for simplicity, not accuracy. Hitting 12 v 2 is the correct move.
FourFiveFace
FourFiveFace
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February 8th, 2013 at 10:44:42 PM permalink
I got berated once for doubling soft 18 against a 6. He basically called me greedy. I ignored him. I think people are more forgiving when you hit it as opposed to situations when you double it.
1BB
1BB
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February 9th, 2013 at 3:18:55 AM permalink
Quote: FourFiveFace

I got berated once for doubling soft 18 against a 6. He basically called me greedy. I ignored him. I think people are more forgiving when you hit it as opposed to situations when you double it.



Split your 10s when the know it all has a big bet up.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 9th, 2013 at 4:23:07 AM permalink
Regarding dealers and who they learn from:

check out the videos the Wizard made that has Paigowdan teaching BJ. In the second video at about 2 minutes, Dan essentially uses the old canard "you assume the dealer has a 10" [not what he says, but essentially his point]. Now I think a lot of Dan, dealer extraordinaire, and I am sure he knows basic strategy better than me. But evidently he still has a memory of some bad stuff he learned from way back when, maybe from ploppies as 1BB says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB8s9eErMIM
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Gstim
Gstim
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February 9th, 2013 at 4:25:43 AM permalink
This happens to me all the time. I tell them it is by the book after that I get hit with some old wisdom BS. I once got yelled by the !!dealer!!!! For splitting 4s against her six. It got so bad I called over the pit boss to shut her up. Just play right and watch other people's money drift away. I hate when people don't hit 12 vs 2. That normally pisses people off !$&@ them!!!!
Gstim
Gstim
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February 9th, 2013 at 4:26:07 AM permalink
Quote: Gstim

This happens to me all the time. I tell them it is by the book after that I get hit with some old wisdom BS. I once got yelled by the !!dealer!!!! For splitting 4s against her six. It got so bad I called over the pit boss to shut her up. Just play right and watch other people's money drift away. I hate when people don't hit 12 vs 2. That normally pisses people off !$&@ them!!!!

1BB
1BB
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February 9th, 2013 at 6:08:59 AM permalink
Quote: Gstim

This happens to me all the time. I tell them it is by the book after that I get hit with some old wisdom BS. I once got yelled by the !!dealer!!!! For splitting 4s against her six. It got so bad I called over the pit boss to shut her up. Just play right and watch other people's money drift away. I hate when people don't hit 12 vs 2. That normally pisses people off !$&@ them!!!!



You'd hate playing with me. Sometimes I hit it and sometimes I don't.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
AB21
AB21
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February 9th, 2013 at 6:37:54 AM permalink
My favorite is splitting 9's against an ace on a high count. It' s a pretty rare occurrence, but you get some weird looks, especially because you have a big bet out at the time. Hitting hard 17 against an ace on a high negative count is also a cool move, although you really shouldn't be at the table in this situation.
Ibeatyouraces
Ibeatyouraces
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February 9th, 2013 at 7:29:35 AM permalink
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DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
sodawater
sodawater
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February 9th, 2013 at 9:20:31 AM permalink
whenever someone asks me for advice on the BJ table, I always say "double." even if they are asking 16 vs 10 or if they already have more than two cards.
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