Miscellaneous Discussion Thread II
Quote: unJonQuote: billryanQuote: TigerWuQuote: EvenBobWhy, because it did not immediately start to make money? Ever heard of a long-term investment? Look at it again in 5 years and tell me it was a bad investment. Look at Tesla. In 2018 it was going so badly Elon Musk tried to sell it and look at it today. It's the most valuable car company in the world and one of the world's most valuable companies. And it was all done on word of mouth, Tesla does not advertise. Imagine what it's going to do when they do start advertising. So don't worry about Twitter, it also will be one of the most valuable companies in the world.
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If you can't effectively manage $100,000, or $1,000,000, or even $10,000,000, you'll go broke pretty quickly. But if you have $250,000,000,000, you can screw up A LOT, over and over and over again, and no one will know the difference. Elon is a walking trainwreck, but because he has effectively infinite money, he still appears successful.
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Yes, he is lucky someone keeps handing him all that money.
I keep reading about how he has lost all this money on twitter. Someone will have to explain that as the stock is pretty much right where he bought it.
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How do you know the price of Twitter stock? Elon took it private and as far as I know, no one is making a market in it.
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Fast for three days, drink the entrails from a one-eyed chicken and BBQ a month-old Golden Eagle and the answer will come to you, too.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: billryan
You keep comparing apples and oranges. Eight percent of houses sold in the last three years are a million dollar plus.
Wealth is self-sustaining.
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$2.2 million is easily self-sustaining in an LCOL to MCOL area. If someone handed you $2.2mm at the age of 18, you would never have to work another day in your life.
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You'll get between $150,000 and $200,000 a year in income. Before taxes. After taxes, maybe $100K-$150K . Perhaps that it great money for an 18-year-old. How about after inflation has knocked down 30% of it in ten years? How about when your three kids need braces and you need to save for their education? How about in forty-five years when inflation makes it near worthless and you have no Social Security? Either you've eaten away at your nest egg over the years or your nest egg has been swallowed by inflation.
Imagine a guy who had a $ 200-a-month pension in 1923. He could live very well. However, each year, inflation ate away a little. If he lived to 2023, his $200 is one night in a hotel. It wasn't sustainable.
Quote: TigerWu
Thanks for agreeing with me that he has effectively infinite money. He is still a POS human being.
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You have what I call Rockefeller Syndrome. Back in the '90s I was fascinated by John D Rockefeller and I read everything I could get my hands on about him. At the moment he is still the richest man the world has ever seen, for now. His net worth at its height in today's money would be about half a billion dollars. And people hated his guts, mostly just because he was rich. He did a lot of things that he shouldn't have done but he was no different than any other of the multimillionaires of his time. He bent the rules until the rules changed but that's not why people hated him. People will always hate the richest of the rich, it just goes with the territory. They can be the most philanthropic people that ever lived and it wouldn't matter. The jealousy of those who do so much better than we do is rooted in our DNA, and for some of it's far worse than for others. Jordan Peterson says Elon Musk is a one in a billion human in that he has the ability to make huge amounts of money and at the same time he's extremely conscientious when it comes to what's going to happen to the Earth. Peterson says it's usually one or the other very seldom do you see both in one person. You see lots of rich people playing at caring about the future because it's good for their image, what they really care about is there six luxury homes their fleet of jets and their billion dollar yacht.
Quote: billryanQuote: TigerWuQuote: billryan
You keep comparing apples and oranges. Eight percent of houses sold in the last three years are a million dollar plus.
Wealth is self-sustaining.
link to original post
$2.2 million is easily self-sustaining in an LCOL to MCOL area. If someone handed you $2.2mm at the age of 18, you would never have to work another day in your life.
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You'll get between $150,000 and $200,000 a year in income. Before taxes. After taxes, maybe $100K-$150K . Perhaps that it great money for an 18-year-old. How about after inflation has knocked down 30% of it in ten years? How about when your three kids need braces and you need to save for their education? How about in forty-five years when inflation makes it near worthless and you have no Social Security? Either you've eaten away at your nest egg over the years or your nest egg has been swallowed by inflation.
Imagine a guy who had a $ 200-a-month pension in 1923. He could live very well. However, each year, inflation ate away a little. If he lived to 2023, his $200 is one night in a hotel. It wasn't sustainable.
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if he is wise about his finances and chooses to live on just $100K per year - still a pretty fair amount - he could increase his drawdown by about 4% each year - that is the average change in the value of money due to inflation
each year his investments (assuming he primarily invests in the S&P 500 index fund or something comparable) -
the value of his investment on average will increase by about $100K in the early years and much more in the later years
in 10 years the value of his investments - assuming average performance should be well over $3 million
in 20 years the value of his investments assuming average performance should be at least $5 million
unless he decides for personal reasons to draw down much larger amounts - makes unwise decisions -
he wouldn't be fabulously wealthy - but with wise decisions he should have no financial problems
unless there was a very long bear market - a distinct possibility - if that happens - he needs to get a job
.
Quote: billryanYou'll get between $150,000 and $200,000 a year in income. Before taxes. After taxes, maybe $100K-$150K . Perhaps that it great money for an 18-year-old. How about after inflation has knocked down 30% of it in ten years? How about when your three kids need braces and you need to save for their education? How about in forty-five years when inflation makes it near worthless and you have no Social Security? Either you've eaten away at your nest egg over the years or your nest egg has been swallowed by inflation.
Imagine a guy who had a $ 200-a-month pension in 1923. He could live very well. However, each year, inflation ate away a little. If he lived to 2023, his $200 is one night in a hotel. It wasn't sustainable.
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That's not how you would financially handle that AT ALL...that would be a disaster...LOL. Even just going with completely basic, generic advice, with $2.2 million invested:
Withdraw 4% the first year, or $88,000. That's pretty damn good money for one person in an LCOL state, even after taxes. Every year adjust the withdrawal for inflation, and that $2.2mm will last you forever. And that's if you actually spend every single penny every year. You're likely not going to do that, because there will probably be years where you just take a few smaller vacations, and just hang around the house a bit playing video games, and you spend maybe half that, or whatever. All that money you don't spend every year just gets reinvested. You can always adjust your withdrawals up or down depending on your spending habits.
You're talking about three kids needing braces and an education... okay, if I have three kids, then I probably have a wife, who probably has a job, so there's another stream of income to help cover that. And I can always get some random part time job to help cover extra costs if my wife's salary and my $88k a year withdrawals aren't enough for some reason.
Your scenario is absolutely the worst way to handle $2.2 million and no one with any financial sense would do it that way.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: billryanYou'll get between $150,000 and $200,000 a year in income. Before taxes. After taxes, maybe $100K-$150K . Perhaps that it great money for an 18-year-old. How about after inflation has knocked down 30% of it in ten years? How about when your three kids need braces and you need to save for their education? How about in forty-five years when inflation makes it near worthless and you have no Social Security? Either you've eaten away at your nest egg over the years or your nest egg has been swallowed by inflation.
Imagine a guy who had a $ 200-a-month pension in 1923. He could live very well. However, each year, inflation ate away a little. If he lived to 2023, his $200 is one night in a hotel. It wasn't sustainable.
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That's not how you would financially handle that AT ALL...that would be a disaster...LOL. Even just going with completely basic, generic advice, with $2.2 million invested:
Withdraw 4% the first year, or $88,000. That's pretty damn good money for one person in an LCOL state, even after taxes. Every year adjust the withdrawal for inflation, and that $2.2mm will last you forever. And that's if you actually spend every single penny every year. You're likely not going to do that, because there will probably be years where you just take a few smaller vacations, and just hang around the house a bit playing video games, and you spend maybe half that, or whatever. All that money you don't spend every year just gets reinvested. You can always adjust your withdrawals up or down depending on your spending habits.
You're talking about three kids needing braces and an education... okay, if I have three kids, then I probably have a wife, who probably has a job, so there's another stream of income to help cover that. And I can always get some random part time job to help cover extra costs if my wife's salary and my $88k a year withdrawals aren't enough for some reason.
Your scenario is absolutely the worst way to handle $2.2 million and no one with any financial sense would do it that way.
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Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes? Never buy a house, never buy a new car? Never buy a motorcycle or a boat? Retired people take out 4% but they have Social Security and other investments. The discussion is about being wealthy. Do you think 60K a year lets anyone live a wealthy lifestyle? Maybe in Oaxaca or San Salvador, but not in this country.
Quote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes? Never buy a house, never buy a new car?
Come on
Seriously
You don't really believe that a single man making $88,000 gross and $60 K net can't buy a house or a new car.
He can't pay cash for those things but I don't think that's what you mean.
Do you______________?
.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes? Never buy a house, never buy a new car?
Come on
Seriously
You don't really believe that a single man making $88,000 gross and $60 K net can't buy a house or a new car.
He can't pay cash for those things but I don't think that's what you mean.
Do you______________?
.
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I've no doubt he will buy a car, a house, a boat and or a motorcycle, and get himself into a horrible cash flow situation. I'd say it is 50-50 he's broke by forty.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes? Never buy a house, never buy a new car?
Come on
Seriously
You don't really believe that a single man making $88,000 gross and $60 K net can't buy a house or a new car.
He can't pay cash for those things but I don't think that's what you mean.
Do you______________?
.
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Do you think a man grossing 88K is wealthy?
Quote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes?
Absolutely doable in this country.
Quote:Never buy a house, never buy a new car? Never buy a motorcycle or a boat?
Why wouldn't you be able to buy a house or a car? With a $60k NET income you can easily afford a mortgage and a car. And like I said before, if you have a spouse/partner/roommate/whatever, it's even more affordable.
Quote:Retired people take out 4% but they have Social Security and other investments. The discussion is about being wealthy. Do you think 60K a year lets anyone live a wealthy lifestyle? Maybe in Oaxaca or San Salvador, but not in this country.
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Okay, I'll concede that $60k a year net is probably not "wealthy," but it IS comfortable living in many parts of the US unless you are financially irresponsible.
Quote: billryanI've no doubt he will buy a car, a house, a boat and or a motorcycle, and get himself into a horrible cash flow situation. I'd say it is 50-50 he's broke by forty.
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The point is that mathematically a person can live off of $2.2 million forever. Of course in the real world many 18 year olds would totally screw that up, but that's not what I'm arguing.
Quote: billryanQuote: lilredroosterQuote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes? Never buy a house, never buy a new car?
Come on
Seriously
You don't really believe that a single man making $88,000 gross and $60 K net can't buy a house or a new car.
He can't pay cash for those things but I don't think that's what you mean.
Do you______________?
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Do you think a man grossing 88K is wealthy?
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No, and I never said that.
Neither did Tiger Wu
He only said he was self sustaining.
Quote: billryan
I've no doubt he will buy a car, a house, a boat and or a motorcycle, and get himself into a horrible cash flow situation. I'd say it is 50-50 he's broke by forty.
Some manage their money poorly.
Some manage their money well.
Everybody is not the same to make a blanket statement like that.
.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: TigerWu
Thanks for agreeing with me that he has effectively infinite money. He is still a POS human being.
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You have what I call Rockefeller Syndrome. Back in the '90s I was fascinated by John D Rockefeller and I read everything I could get my hands on about him. At the moment he is still the richest man the world has ever seen, for now. His net worth at its height in today's money would be about half a billion dollars. And people hated his guts, mostly just because he was rich. He did a lot of things that he shouldn't have done but he was no different than any other of the multimillionaires of his time. He bent the rules until the rules changed but that's not why people hated him. People will always hate the richest of the rich, it just goes with the territory. They can be the most philanthropic people that ever lived and it wouldn't matter. The jealousy of those who do so much better than we do is rooted in our DNA, and for some of it's far worse than for others. Jordan Peterson says Elon Musk is a one in a billion human in that he has the ability to make huge amounts of money and at the same time he's extremely conscientious when it comes to what's going to happen to the Earth. Peterson says it's usually one or the other very seldom do you see both in one person. You see lots of rich people playing at caring about the future because it's good for their image, what they really care about is there six luxury homes their fleet of jets and their billion dollar yacht.
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I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
Quote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
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You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
Quote: EvenBob
You have what I call Rockefeller Syndrome. Back in the '90s I was fascinated by John D Rockefeller and I read everything I could get my hands on about him. At the moment he is still the richest man the world has ever seen, for now. His net worth at its height in today's money would be about half a billion dollars. And people hated his guts, mostly just because he was rich.
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I never said I hated Elon because he's rich, I said I hated him because he's a scumbag. Am I not allowed to hate people I think are scumbags just because they're rich? Take away all his money and he would still be a scumbag, and I would still hate him; I don't give a s*** how much money he has.
Quote: TigerWu
The point is that mathematically a person can live off of $2.2 million forever. Of course in the real world many 18 year olds would totally screw that up, but that's not what I'm arguing.
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One of the neighborhood tribes gives their 18 year old members their "18 money" - a share of tribal wealth - upon achievement of some basic requirements (I believe, turning 18, and graduating high school.)
It's "only" around $220k.
It's usually gone inside 3 months.
I believe that is representative of the usual level of personal financial responsibility, and why I recommend taking the annuity payout instead of the lump sum, should anyone happen to win the lotto.
So yes, it may be possible to live responsibly indefinitely on $2.2million, but I don't think it's likely for the majority of society.
Quote: TigerWu
Okay, I'll concede that $60k a year net is probably not "wealthy," but it IS comfortable living in many parts of the US unless you are financially irresponsible.
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My youngest daughter and her idiot husband together make almost $200,000 a year. I don't know how they do it because I wouldn't pay either one of them to mow my lawn and expect a good job out of it. They have two children and they're always broke. Well, not broke, but they're always complaining about money, or so my wife says. I don't speak to them unless I'm absolutely forced to, which isn't very often. They have a mortgage and one car payment and two teenage kids and they can't live on $200,000 a year. Of course they could if they tried but to me they're just adult children that you can't explain anything to so I don't bother. My wife sees them all the time because she's forced to. And no they are not my grandchildren because she married a guy that had two kids already. So I'm off the hook, I don't ever have to see them again if I don't want to. Here's a clue as to how they live. They have a giant freezer which they fill with food but never eat out of, or rarely, and at the end of every year they throw everything in the freezer away so they can fill it up again. I have nothing to say to people who live like that.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
link to original post
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
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I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
Quote: AZDuffmanI am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
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Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
link to original post
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
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I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
link to original post
Agree. They are just polluting less. I have a friend who has solar panels on his roof. And they drive two electric cars. He is pretty close to driving without pollution. There must have been some in the construction of his car and roof panels, but nowhere near as much as, say, me with my two gas cars.
How many billions of barrels of oil would we save if all Americans did what my friend does?
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
link to original post
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
link to original post
I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
link to original post
Agree. They are just polluting less. I have a friend who has solar panels on his roof. And they drive two electric cars. He is pretty close to driving without pollution. There must have been some in the construction of his car and roof panels, but nowhere near as much as, say, me with my two gas cars.
How many billions of barrels of oil would we save if all Americans did what my friend does?
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They do not pollute less, just different. Thing is, most people cannot do what your friend does. Most houses do not face direct south to get the benefit of the solar panels. More and more HOAs are trying to make getting them hard because various Yuppies do not like how they look. You need a big suburban home to collect enough sunlight to get the power for the cars. And the commute comes in. Does your friend live in the same 20 minute city you do? He gets to a longer commute things change.
I will repeat, I do not care if someone prefers an EV. But I am tired of the mandates and the ideas we can simply convert over. As to the owners, once online one suggested they do not pollute because electricity does not pollute. They thought it came out of the outlet like magic!
As to bbl of oil saved, the same EV owners are usually against fracking, which is how CO2 reductions have happened.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
link to original post
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
link to original post
I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
link to original post
Agree. They are just polluting less. I have a friend who has solar panels on his roof. And they drive two electric cars. He is pretty close to driving without pollution. There must have been some in the construction of his car and roof panels, but nowhere near as much as, say, me with my two gas cars.
How many billions of barrels of oil would we save if all Americans did what my friend does?
link to original post
They do not pollute less, just different. Thing is, most people cannot do what your friend does. Most houses do not face direct south to get the benefit of the solar panels. More and more HOAs are trying to make getting them hard because various Yuppies do not like how they look. You need a big suburban home to collect enough sunlight to get the power for the cars. And the commute comes in. Does your friend live in the same 20 minute city you do? He gets to a longer commute things change.
I will repeat, I do not care if someone prefers an EV. But I am tired of the mandates and the ideas we can simply convert over. As to the owners, once online one suggested they do not pollute because electricity does not pollute. They thought it came out of the outlet like magic!
As to bbl of oil saved, the same EV owners are usually against fracking, which is how CO2 reductions have happened.
link to original post
I believe they pollute less and different. But agree with most of the rest.
He has very short commute. When weather appropriate, he bike rides! His long drives are to golf in Akron (NY). Half hour each way. His car is a Volt which if going over 200 miles uses an ICE. He says he uses gas only a few times a year.
For some reason the article looks chopped at the end. But this is very interesting. Women outnumbering men 3:2 at colleges. First thought of course is that majoring in husbandry is now far less viable. More seems to be in play.
The drop of men is five times that of women the last 10 or so years. And men say they are not going because they do not see the value. Women say they are not going because of cost.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
link to original post
You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
link to original post
I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
link to original post
Agree. They are just polluting less. I have a friend who has solar panels on his roof. And they drive two electric cars. He is pretty close to driving without pollution. There must have been some in the construction of his car and roof panels, but nowhere near as much as, say, me with my two gas cars.
How many billions of barrels of oil would we save if all Americans did what my friend does?
link to original post
They do not pollute less, just different. Thing is, most people cannot do what your friend does. Most houses do not face direct south to get the benefit of the solar panels. More and more HOAs are trying to make getting them hard because various Yuppies do not like how they look. You need a big suburban home to collect enough sunlight to get the power for the cars. And the commute comes in. Does your friend live in the same 20 minute city you do? He gets to a longer commute things change.
I will repeat, I do not care if someone prefers an EV. But I am tired of the mandates and the ideas we can simply convert over. As to the owners, once online one suggested they do not pollute because electricity does not pollute. They thought it came out of the outlet like magic!
As to bbl of oil saved, the same EV owners are usually against fracking, which is how CO2 reductions have happened.
link to original post
I believe they pollute less and different. But agree with most of the rest.
He has very short commute. When weather appropriate, he bike rides! His long drives are to golf in Akron (NY). Half hour each way. His car is a Volt which if going over 200 miles uses an ICE. He says he uses gas only a few times a year.
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Being a Volt changes things. Needs far less charge. The Volt was the right idea but typical wrong GM execution. BTW, it is not "going over 200 miles" on a Volt. A Volt can go about 30 miles on a charge, then needs gas. Less in on a typical WNY cold winter day. And that battery will only last a few years in a hot place like Phoenix.
Some of this is developing nations having increased demand for energy and no infrastructure for EV’s etc. But it’s also largely that if energy becomes more efficient/cheap for someone to use, in general, the demand and consumption of energy also rise to eliminate any real savings.
Quote: mcallister3200Generally speaking, the people who pollute less/more efficiently also consume much more than the average person, more or less balancing it out. EV/solar use is at all time highs, meanwhile energy consumption/emissions outputs also all time highs….doesn’t SEEM to make sense.
Some of this is developing nations having increased demand for energy and no infrastructure for EV’s etc. But it’s also largely that if energy becomes more efficient/cheap for someone to use, in general, the demand and consumption of energy also rise to eliminate any real savings.
link to original post
I can kind of see that and have lived the examples. Hybrids have been a good example. People buy a new hybrid but live in a bigger place. All because they can afford it. Good for them, Meanwhile someone driving a few year old subcompact and living in a small place emits less on net. People buy an EV and plug it in inside the 2 car garage of their McMansion, all the while thinking they are saving the planet.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: billryan
Let me understand this.
You hand an 18 year old $2.2Million and you believe he will withdraw $88,000 a year and live on the 60K after taxes?
Absolutely doable in this country.Quote:Never buy a house, never buy a new car? Never buy a motorcycle or a boat?
Why wouldn't you be able to buy a house or a car? With a $60k NET income you can easily afford a mortgage and a car. And like I said before, if you have a spouse/partner/roommate/whatever, it's even more affordable.Quote:Retired people take out 4% but they have Social Security and other investments. The discussion is about being wealthy. Do you think 60K a year lets anyone live a wealthy lifestyle? Maybe in Oaxaca or San Salvador, but not in this country.
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Okay, I'll concede that $60k a year net is probably not "wealthy," but it IS comfortable living in many parts of the US unless you are financially irresponsible.Quote: billryanI've no doubt he will buy a car, a house, a boat and or a motorcycle, and get himself into a horrible cash flow situation. I'd say it is 50-50 he's broke by forty.
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The point is that mathematically a person can live off of $2.2 million forever. Of course in the real world many 18 year olds would totally screw that up, but that's not what I'm arguing.
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You could live off a lot less than two million dollars. Most people do, but they aren't wealthy. To be in the top 1%, you need an annual income of close to $700,000. In most cases, if you don't have a salary, that requires a portfolio of about ten million dollars.
IN NYC or the high-dollar zipcodes of California and Virginia, it takes well over a million dollars annually to be in the top 1%. On the other hand, there are many states where a $500,000 annual income puts you in the top 1%.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: SOOPOOQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman
I do not see Musk "caring about what happens top the earth" very much. If he did he would not be making cars that require mining several tons of material just to make thge batteries they require.
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You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. If he was making gasoline powered cars people would be screaming that he's poisoning the atmosphere. So he makes electric cars that don't poison the atmosphere and people are screaming that he's mining too much stuff from the Earth. No matter what you do you can't win so you just do what you do and hope some people go along with it.
I just read an article about five reasons why people hate Elon Musk. The number one reason was he mistreats employees, which is said about most high profile companies. And I swear number two was 'he makes mean Tweets' and number three was 'he's a billionaire'.
Does this sound familiar? LOL
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I get that you have to mine or drill for resources. I am just tired of the EV believers thinking they are somehow "not polluting" because they drive an EV.
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Agree. They are just polluting less. I have a friend who has solar panels on his roof. And they drive two electric cars. He is pretty close to driving without pollution. There must have been some in the construction of his car and roof panels, but nowhere near as much as, say, me with my two gas cars.
How many billions of barrels of oil would we save if all Americans did what my friend does?
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They do not pollute less, just different. Thing is, most people cannot do what your friend does. Most houses do not face direct south to get the benefit of the solar panels. More and more HOAs are trying to make getting them hard because various Yuppies do not like how they look. You need a big suburban home to collect enough sunlight to get the power for the cars. And the commute comes in. Does your friend live in the same 20 minute city you do? He gets to a longer commute things change.
I will repeat, I do not care if someone prefers an EV. But I am tired of the mandates and the ideas we can simply convert over. As to the owners, once online one suggested they do not pollute because electricity does not pollute. They thought it came out of the outlet like magic!
As to bbl of oil saved, the same EV owners are usually against fracking, which is how CO2 reductions have happened.
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I believe they pollute less and different. But agree with most of the rest.
He has very short commute. When weather appropriate, he bike rides! His long drives are to golf in Akron (NY). Half hour each way. His car is a Volt which if going over 200 miles uses an ICE. He says he uses gas only a few times a year.
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Not to bring up the other site, but I believe it was Tanko that directed me to an article that broke down the long term life of cars, to prove that electric was costing more, but the article actually concluded that opposite at the end of it, though at first I thought it was making the same case against electric. One of the differences, not pointed out, is electric still have a lot of refinement to go,before we declare it defeated. Everyone not observing that innovation of combustion engines has been going on for a century or more. Way way, more time. Sure we will likely keep using hybrid energy energy sources. Way too soon to declare electric dead.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: mcallister3200Generally speaking, the people who pollute less/more efficiently also consume much more than the average person, more or less balancing it out. EV/solar use is at all time highs, meanwhile energy consumption/emissions outputs also all time highs….doesn’t SEEM to make sense.
Some of this is developing nations having increased demand for energy and no infrastructure for EV’s etc. But it’s also largely that if energy becomes more efficient/cheap for someone to use, in general, the demand and consumption of energy also rise to eliminate any real savings.
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I can kind of see that and have lived the examples. Hybrids have been a good example. People buy a new hybrid but live in a bigger place. All because they can afford it. Good for them, Meanwhile someone driving a few year old subcompact and living in a small place emits less on net. People buy an EV and plug it in inside the 2 car garage of their McMansion, all the while thinking they are saving the planet.
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Just human nature, we all do it. Make the want/emotion based decision, then find the logic to rationalize and justify it whether it’s before or after the fact, the decision was already made then hunt for the logic. We judge ourselves based on our intent and everyone else based on their actions.
That said, I don’t think anyone with money is buying a Chevy Volt based on want/emotion….it’s someone who isn’t a car person in the first place.
I did some quick math, and a $30,000 downpayment could buy a five-unit building in my area for $600,000 and produce a positive cash flow while paying the loan off in 10-13 years. Or a person could live in the biggest unit for free and pay it off in just over twenty years.
It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity. Forewarned is forearmed.
Quote: mcallister3200
That said, I don’t think anyone with money is buying a Chevy Volt based on want/emotion….it’s someone who isn’t a car person in the first place.
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Yes and no. The Volt was hardly great, but a few might have been sold for the historical nature of it. It's Cadillac twin was a disaster though.
This is not a good thing.
Quote: AZDuffman40% of student loan borrowers have not made a payment since they restarted on Oct 1.
This is not a good thing.
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They're waiting for their final notices hoping for a Christmas miracle that's never going to come. Like somebody said the other day college graduates want blue collar non college graduates to pay for their college bills. Never going to happen.
Quote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman40% of student loan borrowers have not made a payment since they restarted on Oct 1.
This is not a good thing.
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They're waiting for their final notices hoping for a Christmas miracle that's never going to come. Like somebody said the other day college graduates want blue collar non college graduates to pay for their college bills. Never going to happen.
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Hopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman40% of student loan borrowers have not made a payment since they restarted on Oct 1.
This is not a good thing.
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They're waiting for their final notices hoping for a Christmas miracle that's never going to come. Like somebody said the other day college graduates want blue collar non college graduates to pay for their college bills. Never going to happen.
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Hopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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The younger generation doesn't worship at the altar of Fair Issac like their elders.
Quote: billryanQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: EvenBobQuote: AZDuffman40% of student loan borrowers have not made a payment since they restarted on Oct 1.
This is not a good thing.
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They're waiting for their final notices hoping for a Christmas miracle that's never going to come. Like somebody said the other day college graduates want blue collar non college graduates to pay for their college bills. Never going to happen.
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Hopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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The younger generation doesn't worship at the altar of Fair Issac like their elders.
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You may be correct. I was once in a college bookstore Starbucks (it was near where I worked) and one kid was bragging his FICO hit 700.
Quote: AZDuffmanHopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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There won't be any penalties for delayed/non-payments until late next year.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanHopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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There won't be any penalties for delayed/non-payments until late next year.
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Not the same thing as reporting a late. You can have no fee for being late but still report it to the bureaus.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanHopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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There won't be any penalties for delayed/non-payments until late next year.
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Not the same thing as reporting a late. You can have no fee for being late but still report it to the bureaus.
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"Until next September, borrowers will be protected from the harshest consequences of missed payments, such as delinquency, default, and mandatory collections."
That's their wording. Do with that what you will, but it sounds like they won't even be reporting late payments until next year.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanHopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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There won't be any penalties for delayed/non-payments until late next year.
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Not the same thing as reporting a late. You can have no fee for being late but still report it to the bureaus.
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"Until next September, borrowers will be protected from the harshest consequences of missed payments, such as delinquency, default, and mandatory collections."
That's their wording. Do with that what you will, but it sounds like they won't even be reporting late payments until next year.
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Thanks for the research. I see nothing on reporting so maybe they luck out a few months. Less competition when I buy my next rental.
Quote:Doctors. discovered that the Christmas period is associated with a significantly increased risk of penile fractures – a medical emergency in which the erection-producing regions of the penis snap, usually as a result of forceful bending during over-enthusiastic sexual intercourse.
“This injury tends to occur during wild sex – particularly in positions where you’re not in direct eye contact [with your partner], such as the reverse cowgirl,” said Dr Nikolaos Pyrgides, a urologist at the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich, who led the research.
The fractures are often heralded by an audible crack, followed by severe pain, rapid loss of erection and severe swelling and bruising. “When [patients] present to their doctor their penis often looks like an eggplant,” Pyrgides said.
Suspecting that the intimacy and euphoria of the festive season might be a risk factor for this type of injury, Pyrgides and his colleagues examined hospital data for 3,421 men who sustained penile fractures in Germany between 2005 and 2021.
The study – the first to explore seasonal patterns for this type of injury – found that such injuries were indeed more common over Christmas. In fact, “if every day was like Christmas, 43% more penile fractures would have occurred in Germany from 2005 on”, Pyrgides said.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanQuote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffmanHopefully it is getting reported as lates on their credit bureaus.
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There won't be any penalties for delayed/non-payments until late next year.
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Not the same thing as reporting a late. You can have no fee for being late but still report it to the bureaus.
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"Until next September, borrowers will be protected from the harshest consequences of missed payments, such as delinquency, default, and mandatory collections."
That's their wording. Do with that what you will, but it sounds like they won't even be reporting late payments until next year.
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They are just screwing themselves, all it means is having to pay even more in interest and the payments will drag out even longer. But they're young and stupid what would you expect. When my daughter bought her house 20 years ago she had it totally paid off in 5 years because they worked their asses off to do it. But then she teaches college level math, and that helped her make that decision.
Expect him to try to woo them back.
Quote: AZDuffman
The Tesla customer base borders on a cult. I said about 2-3 years ago that we will soon see if people want EVs or want Teslas. It has been the later for the most part. The stock valuation makes no sense. But the believers seem to keep thinking it does.
I have no idea how one would even try to value Tesla. I think they are a good company with some great intellectual property but how do you value the next 18 years? I think they will be the most successful car company over the next 18 years, but my guess is they won't even be manufacturing cars by then. My guess is that they will just be the patent factory licensing all their IP to the actual manufacturers.
Quote: DRich
I have no idea how one would even try to value Tesla.
I can help. It’s actually quite easy. You multiply the closing price x the number of shares outstanding. That is EXACTLY the value of Tesla.
I think what you meant to say is you don’t know what Tesla will be worth on some future date. There are hundreds of ‘expert analysts’ that will hazard a guess.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: DRich
I have no idea how one would even try to value Tesla.
I can help. It’s actually quite easy. You multiply the closing price x the number of shares outstanding. That is EXACTLY the value of Tesla.
I think what you meant to say is you don’t know what Tesla will be worth on some future date. There are hundreds of ‘expert analysts’ that will hazard a guess.
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I must slightly disagree. I don't think you can use the closing price as that number is no longer accurate. I would think you would have to use the most current price as there are plenty of trades happening off market.
Quote: DRichQuote: AZDuffman
The Tesla customer base borders on a cult. I said about 2-3 years ago that we will soon see if people want EVs or want Teslas. It has been the later for the most part. The stock valuation makes no sense. But the believers seem to keep thinking it does.
I have no idea how one would even try to value Tesla. I think they are a good company with some great intellectual property but how do you value the next 18 years? I think they will be the most successful car company over the next 18 years, but my guess is they won't even be manufacturing cars by then. My guess is that they will just be the patent factory licensing all their IP to the actual manufacturers.
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I thought all Tesla IP was open source. Is that incorrect?
