Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 3651
December 29th, 2016 at 12:50:24 PM permalink
Quote: lilredrooster

I don't think what you wrote was pointless or meaningless



I agree with that. I might disagree with monet's point, and I do, but it's still a worthy convo to have. Perhaps it'll turn into garbage, but could be it turns into a discussion that reveals some real gems. And hey, at least this one won't be derailed by gun debate.
The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
Boz
Boz
Joined: Sep 22, 2011
  • Threads: 136
  • Posts: 3477
December 29th, 2016 at 1:12:33 PM permalink
Quote: Face

And hey, at least this one won't be derailed by gun debate.



Well Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country and.................................

Sorry had to do it.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
  • Threads: 12
  • Posts: 908
December 29th, 2016 at 1:43:38 PM permalink
Quote: monet0412

I suppose you have a point. In 1929, right before the St. Valentines Day Massacre I read that January only had 26 murders on record. Those numbers are almost doubled in recent years on a per month basis. 1929 didn't have the gun control we have today. Of course in 1929 you didn't turn on the T.V. or watch a Movie 24/7 with nothing but killing on it or stories about killing.



Well, I think the population is probably much bigger and that the guns are much more effective.

I've always been in the opposite camp, in that I don't really think media shape our behavior very much. This is, maybe, partially because I'm a free speech zealot and want to believe that. But I still think it's mostly right.

When I was a substitute teacher, often going to poor neighborhoods, I heard several adults blame hip-hop culture for much of the decline that I was witness too.

One thought I had is that a negative cultural influence on kids in a bad situation could be much more powerful. I, and many of my friends, grew up listening to bands like Slayer sing about serial killers, ritual sacrifice, war crimes, etc. But, that was an escape to a landscape that was completely foreign to our experience. None of our parents or neighbors were performing Satanic sacrifices, and our other influences were generally positive.

At one school where I was a sub, 40% of students were in foster care. And I realized that gangs do not exist in a vacuum. Many students had brothers and sisters, family friends and even parents (if they had them at all) who were active gang members. So I think that being steeped in a popular culture that often celebrates such things, is a lot different than a kid from the suburbs listening to Slayer, or even NWA, who to us, were rapping about a wild and almost fictional world, similar to the wild west or something like that.

On the other hand, when someone grows up in that environment and becomes a musician and lyricist, obviously there is a good chance they will write about those subjects. It is more complicated than I'm getting into, but I tend think that these things might feed off each other.

With shows like Dexter (which I admittedly liked) and Hannibal (which I thought was dumb), I tend to think more that they are a reflection of our increasingly violent and fascistic psyche than the other way around. For example, I ain't looking it up, but used to be that only about 25% of Americans believed in torture, but now it's more like half.
RS
RS
Joined: Feb 11, 2014
  • Threads: 49
  • Posts: 5219
December 29th, 2016 at 2:16:56 PM permalink
IMO.....

If movies, TV shows, or songs had a powerful or meaningful-enough impact on people to kill each other (and all the other bad stuff), then these things would be more wide-spread. Instead, it's mostly in the gang-infested areas where people are shooting at each other. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other areas....I just don't think you can blame the murders in Detroit or wherever else on music and TV....since it's pretty much only happening in those specific areas.
"should of played 'Go Fish' today ya peasant" -typoontrav
lilredrooster
lilredrooster
Joined: May 8, 2015
  • Threads: 82
  • Posts: 782
December 29th, 2016 at 2:35:00 PM permalink
There's so much suffering out there between crime, wars, disease, starvation and we see so much of it in the media that we become numb to it. A lot of people who are comfortable with their life in America will say, "I worked hard. I deserve it." But I don't say that. I know I just got lucky. With different luck I could very easily have been one of those suffering people.
everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 151
  • Posts: 6288
December 29th, 2016 at 3:16:09 PM permalink
Take away gang culture, but leave the same kids, and see how much violence drops. I'd wager it would drop quite a bit.

Gang culture relies so much on showing you're tougher than the next guy it can do little but keep upping the ante on violence, way beyond what most would do without it. It's competitive violence.
prisoner of gravity
beachbumbabs
Administrator
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
  • Threads: 76
  • Posts: 8965
December 29th, 2016 at 10:16:41 PM permalink
Quote: RS

IMO.....

If movies, TV shows, or songs had a powerful or meaningful-enough impact on people to kill each other (and all the other bad stuff), then these things would be more wide-spread. Instead, it's mostly in the gang-infested areas where people are shooting at each other. I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other areas....I just don't think you can blame the murders in Detroit or wherever else on music and TV....since it's pretty much only happening in those specific areas.



It's not so much the impact or motivation, the impetus, as it is the normalization of violence, the numbing of empathy, and the remoteness of the individual from their expected interaction with others. IMO, anyway.

Tv, movies, and video games are teachers. You don't have to imagine what it is to kill others. You can experience it a hundred times an hour in rpg's. See it depicted dozens of times per movie. The culture, not just the gang culture, which is a dog whistle, of our America has made a world of You and all the annoyance of putting up with others (in Star Trek they were Red Shirt crewmen) unless there's something you want from them. It's well down the road to being a psychopath. And most of us are standing on that road, desensitized, self-centered, alone...

Well. I'm depressing the hell out of myself even trying this conversation. Move over, monet. I'm going to sideline myself and enjoy the new neighbors screaming at each other in the middle of the night yet again.

Gah.
"If the house lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game."
MrV
MrV
Joined: Feb 13, 2010
  • Threads: 268
  • Posts: 5493
December 29th, 2016 at 10:42:41 PM permalink
Harrumph.

All this makes me want to go ratting .
"What, me worry?"
coilman
coilman
Joined: Jan 29, 2012
  • Threads: 121
  • Posts: 948
January 2nd, 2017 at 9:01:30 AM permalink
More murders in Chicago than New York and LA combined !!!!

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/murder+city+chicago+finishes+2016+with+homicides+more+than+york/12628813/story.html
monet0412
monet0412
Joined: Feb 18, 2016
  • Threads: 6
  • Posts: 497
January 2nd, 2017 at 11:50:41 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

It's not so much the impact or motivation, the impetus, as it is the normalization of violence, the numbing of empathy, and the remoteness of the individual from their expected interaction with others. IMO, anyway.

Tv, movies, and video games are teachers. You don't have to imagine what it is to kill others. You can experience it a hundred times an hour in rpg's. See it depicted dozens of times per movie. The culture, not just the gang culture, which is a dog whistle, of our America has made a world of You and all the annoyance of putting up with others (in Star Trek they were Red Shirt crewmen) unless there's something you want from them. It's well down the road to being a psychopath. And most of us are standing on that road, desensitized, self-centered, alone...

Well. I'm depressing the hell out of myself even trying this conversation. Move over, monet. I'm going to sideline myself and enjoy the new neighbors screaming at each other in the middle of the night yet again.

Gah.



At least someone realizes we, as a people, are in bigger trouble than anyone realizes. Sure... we can all just hide from the inevitable with our expensive toys, daily rituals, movies, ball games or whatever one finds to escape the glare of the blinding light. When the time comes to pass on and it is certain that we will all die individually, how will the individual explain what they did. I just know it's gonna be ugly to explain that I spent a lot of time gambling, movies, video games and any other form of pleasure I could find for my own self. I used to play this game called Civilization V. Steam tracked hours played which I didn't like! Needless to say I logged over 10k hours in five years... pretty sick chubs!
Last edited by: monet0412 on Jan 2, 2017

  • Jump to: