Poor forum etiquette

My better judgement tells me not to write this, but some character flaw (ego?) persuades me otherwise. Like many others I don't like to be told I'm wrong or stupid.

This was the first forum I ever participated in, and perhaps my inexperience led to my lack of success.

I have been vilified for hedging a Fire Bet, accused of being racist when I expressed my opinion that private business has a right to refuse service to anyone, and most recently accused of being stupid for offering my opinion that casinos most likely cheat.

I am a college graduate, self-employed. I work 40 hours a week or more. I am certainly not as intelligent as the frequent posters on this forum, but I consider myself a successful middle class American. I fear as such I may be among a very small minority participating in this forum.

When I first joined the forum, I enjoyed reading others gambling experiences, particularly craps, which is my game of choice. Recently, however, I have become increasingly dismayed by the volume of non-gambling posts by some of the frequent posters, and their seemingly uncontrollable desire to offer their expert opinion on every subject.

I know this will piss several participants off, but please know I have no intention of doing so. I also know, not being a wordsmith, my meaning will be misinterpreted. Those posters who feel the need, or must have the last word, please point out my ignorance while showing off your own genius.

If there are other infrequent posters who, like I, have felt, or fear, verbal bullying by the more intelligent, frequent posters, please post your thoughts in this thread.

Quote: Headlock

and most recently accused of being stupid for offering my opinion that casinos most likely cheat.

You are changing the story so you can play victim ...

You were never accused of being stupid for offering an opinion that "casinos most likely cheat." You were exposed for stating that casinos cheat at Slots, Keno or Video poker by rigging the RNG to pay differently based on the performance of the player at that device, without the least bit of evidence.

Arguing from the specific to the general is a logical flaw. You made a specific statement and failed to back it up and were called out for that. Your defense was that "everybody knows casinos cheat," and that somehow you were being made to feel stupid for saying that. It's not hard to say that. What's hard is to give specific evidence for the specific allegations that have been made.

The easiest way to get along in this world is to not make broad sweeping attacks, and to be able to back up specific attacks.

Too bad you have been ravaged by this forum. There may be something for you to learn about yourself and how to get along. Better might be for you to learn the lesson of not attacking those things you know nothing about and to keep participating. It is a life lesson, not a forum lesson.

--Dorothy

Quote: Headlock

I have been vilified for hedging a Fire Bet, accused of being racist when I expressed my opinion that private business has a right to refuse service to anyone, and most recently accused of being stupid for offering my opinion that casinos most likely cheat.

Accusations of racism based on people's thoughts have become so pervasive that they have been neutered in my and many other peoples' estimation. Let's skip that. I don't think casinos cheat simply because of risk/reward, but hey, if you take a different opinion, you are not stupid. But I really wanted to discuss your first example. The thread on hedging the Fire Bet is the perfect example of why this board is such a great place. We started with an idea and literally did the math and amended it as we went to come up with a great answer to the question, while discussing all sorts of experiences along the way. I recall a couple of posters attempting to slam the door on the post by just saying "hedging is not smart...it's against the Wizard's Rules. End of story." I am thankful that they are not moderators, because what followed the "End of story" was both mentally stimulating and challenging.

If I wanted to, I could make a stupid one line comment after every reply in every thread and I'd be in the Top 5 or whatever it is by 9o clock tonight. (Sometimes I feel that my replies are dumb and I erase them before posting. Some people choose not to engage that filter.) Posting a lot does not make one an authority or "more intelligent", even though some people like to insist that "size matters". You shouldn't feel bullied. You have as much right to be here and share your opinions as everyone else (except for JB and the Wizard, they are afforded additional rights). You should show everyone the same respect that you request, however. The non-gambling stuff doesn't really bother me, because I find it fascinating to see what other interests P1 gamblers have. Lots of times people who are drawn to one thing are also drawn to other interests that have nothing to do with the original connecting interest. But that's just me.

I know this is off-topic, but hedging on the fire bet is always a good idea, right? Considering the don't pass has better odds than the pass, and taking full odds on the don't pass only decreases the house edge, once you've made the fire bet, hedging actually is the right move.

Or am I missing something?

Sorry about ignoring the "Poor Forum Etiquette" post, it just sounded like someone crying over nothing.

Quote: DorothyGale

You are changing the story so you can play victim ...

You were never accused of being stupid for offering an opinion that "casinos most likely cheat." You were exposed for stating that casinos cheat at Slots, Keno or Video poker by rigging the RNG to pay differently based on the performance of the player at that device, without the least bit of evidence.

Arguing from the specific to the general is a logical flaw. You made a specific statement and failed to back it up and were called out for that. Your defense was that "everybody knows casinos cheat," and that somehow you were being made to feel stupid for saying that. It's not hard to say that. What's hard is to give specific evidence for the specific allegations that have been made.

The easiest way to get along in this world is to not make broad sweeping attacks, and to be able to back up specific attacks.

Too bad you have been ravaged by this forum. There may be something for you to learn about yourself and how to get along. Better might be for you to learn the lesson of not attacking those things you know nothing about and to keep participating. It is a life lesson, not a forum lesson.

--Dorothy

Again I must blame my inexperience with forum posting. I think my mistake was posting my comment in the Keno thread.

But I have reviewed my posts and I don't see where I stated that casinos cheat specifically at slots and video poker. I also did not say "everybody knows casinos cheat". What I meant, and this will probably be misconstrued as well, is that given that cheating occurs in most endeavors, it is likely that cheating by casinos exists as well.

Quote: Headlock

Again I must blame my inexperience with forum posting. I think my mistake was posting my comment in the Keno thread.

So let's just stick with your comment:

Quote:

it is likely that cheating by casinos exists as well.

The first most common cheating that goes on is by dealers cheating the rack by stealing or shorting or working with an accomplice. I was privy to a recent case first hand where a team of dealers marked cards in a shoe and had accomplices come in and beat the blackjack something fierce. They all used the money together to buy methamphetamine. Eventually they got caught, lost their jobs, a few found their way to jail. That's cheating.

The second most common cheating is by players who mark/bend/past post/spook/ etc. Things like card counting or hole card reading are not cheating. We're talking bona fide cheating here by players. They do it in the table games pit, against slots, against roulette and craps and every other game.

So, cheating in a casino exists.

Now, what does not happen is that two or more executive type higher ups get together and say "how should we rig the games to beat the players out of more money that the house edge allows?" And they do that for the benefit of the "casino," not for themselves. That doesn't happen.

Caveats added in edit -- I recall somewhere a story of an extra 5 being added to a deck, or a few 10s removed ...and some believe that preferential shuffling is a form of cheating ... so maybe it does happen in blackjack ... and maybe a card sharp has been brought in to deal to a player someone doesn't like now and then ... Shorting decks can lead to losing a license, that is usually done by a boss whose shift isn't holding well to increase his hold and better his chances of keeping a job ... felony ... 10 years in prison ... yeah, that's worth it ... Preferential shuffling is a big issue; The state of Nevada has ruled that it is not cheating.

--Dorothy

Quote: Headlock

When I first joined the forum, I enjoyed reading others gambling experiences, particularly craps, which is my game of choice. Recently, however, I have become increasingly dismayed by the volume of non-gambling posts by some of the frequent posters, and their seemingly uncontrollable desire to offer their expert opinion on every subject.

Keep this in mind:

1) The best forums (yes, I know that's horrible Latin) tend to become small communities. A good forum won't restrict postings to one topic only, even if it is dedicated to it. This is a Vegas forum, heavy on gambling, with non-Vegas and non-gambling posting areas.

2) The regulars here are a rather heterogeneous group. There are long-time gamblers and beginners, too. Some of us gamble sporadically, others more often, others perhaps all year long. In any case all of us have interests aside from gambling, therefore we make use of the appropriate areas to talk about it.

3) If you don't want to read non-gambling threads, then don't.

The only one of those threads I was involved with was the one about alleged cheating in slots, video keno specifically. If you want to make the accusation that the machines are not fair, fine, but it should be backed up by some evidence. The burden of proof is on the accuser. I think you were rightly called out for a weak argument.

Regarding the overall tone of the forum, compared to other forums I'm familiar with, this one is rather mild. I made the same mistake at the first forum I became active with some 13 years ago, saying anything that came to mind, as I might after a few beers. I got quite a few verbal thrashings because of it. My advice, based on my own mistakes, to any newcomer to the world of forums, is to think more, and write less. Even I violate that bit of advice when I'm hurried, I must confess.

I missed the Fire Bet thread due to being out of town the last four days. However, I allow for exceptions to hedging if life changing amounts of money are at stake.

Consider yourself welcomed by me to stick around. You might consider lurking more for a while to get a better feel of the place.

Quote: Nareed

2) The regulars here are a rather heterogeneous group. There are long-time gamblers and beginners, too. Some of us gamble sporadically, others more often, others perhaps all year long. In any case all of us have interests aside from gambling, therefore we make use of the appropriate areas to talk about it.

Some of us don't gamble at all. Some work for the gaming industry. Some are advantage players. Some do a little of all of these.

--Dorothy

Quote: DorothyGale

Some of us don't gamble at all. Some work for the gaming industry. Some are advantage players. Some do a little of all of these.

--Dorothy

I sit corrected (I don't often stand by the keyboard, you see...)