Is the Casino Responsible...

Quote: weaselman

This is not true, and you know it. The casino does not have a rule against card counting, because ... guess what? ... they only don't like it when you are winning. Keep loosing, and they will let you count all you want, and comp you like crazy.

BS. I've seen LOSING counters get backed off, and told to give it up.
Now, there IS indeed a current Casino policy to be currently more tolerant, and to "take a bit of that money if they wanna try this [during this currently quiet AP] period, it's their entertainment to try and fail at it" - and I am totally against that POV - because it is "selective."

ROFLMMFAO!!

Quote: Paigowdan

BS. I've seen LOSING counters get backed off, and told to give it up.

Oh, come on. Please ...

Interesting how this thread got hijacked into an attempted AP bash. There is really no comparison between a chip theft and an AP winning money. A theft is an illegal activity, where the victim has legal recourse to recover damanges if the perpetrator is caught. Advantage play, while disliked by casinos, is a legal activity. Casinos have no legal recourse to recover losses from APs, provided the AP wasn't trespassing or involved with some other illegal activity against the casino.

I really don't care to get into a lengthy discussion of ethics. You could argue that advantage play is unethical just because casinos don't like it. Likewise, I could argue that casinos are an unethical business, given that they provide and promote services that are known to ruin the lives of millions of gamblers who cannot control their habit. A definition of what is ethical and unethical will vary from one person to the next. While some consider advantage play an unethical activity, and others would consider the entire casino industry to be unethical, the fact is, both are legal activities.

Back to the original topic, I know of a couple cases where slot credits were stolen, and the casino made pretty much no effort to correct the situation. In both cases, the player left the machine to use the restroom or to accept a quick call on their cell phone where they could get better cell service. They leaned the chair against the machine, left a jacket on the machine, or did something else to make it obvious that the machine was being reserved. While away from the machine, the thief hit the cashout button on the machine, took the ticket to a kiosk, and ran. When the player reported the issue to the casino, they had no interest in filing a report, reviewing surveillance footage, or involving the police. They also did not offer to refund the player their loss (in the $200-400 range, in both cases).

Clearly, these are cases where the player was partially at fault. It is foolish to leave a machine unattended. I wouldn't necessarily expect the casino to reimburse the loss in this case, although I can assure you that if these players were on the "super sucker list", the casino would likely have gone out of their way to make sure they're not losing a customer.

Quote: weaselman

Oh, come on. Please ...

I've been relegated to flat betting while losing. I suppose some surveillance people are not morons, but the evidence is slim.

Quote: Paigowdan

BS. I've seen LOSING counters get backed off, and told to give it up.

Quote: weaselman

Oh, come on. Please ...

This happens all the time. In fact, I would expect that most people who try card counting are either underbankrolled, or are really bad at it - to the point that they are lifetime losing players. The majority of the damage caused to casinos as a result of card counting is self-inflicted. The losses associated with devoting excessive resources to catch card counters, changing game procedures to thwart counting, and tossing losing card counters are in excess of the actual dollars won by skilled card counters.

Quote: CowPieDon

Interesting how this thread got hijacked into an attempted AP bash. There is really no comparison between a chip theft and an AP winning money.

Huh? Break the house rules for personal gain, get 86-ed for either, etc...
A real lot in common, especially in nature, in the casino's view and consideration of a threat to ops, etc.
A real lot in common, not a hi-jack.

Quote: CPD

I really don't care to get into a lengthy discussion of ethics.

Fine - you're just stopped as a gambler either way, you get pushback, defeat, obstruction, whatever you want to call it.

Quote: CPD

You could argue that advantage play is unethical just because casinos don't like it.

that's not the arguement I made, so don't claim or say that it is.
1. Back offs;
2. 86-es;
3. Contrary to casino rules and what they allow.
etc..

Well, my legal expertise stopped when I flunked out of law school (which I'm still not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing), but I would think that since security at casinos is so tight, with cameras and security guards all over, that they are taking all reasonable precautions to prevent robberies, so they would not be responsible.

Quote: AlanRRT

Well, my legal expertise stopped when I flunked out of law school (which I'm still not sure if it was a good thing or a bad thing), but I would think that since security at casinos is so tight, with cameras and security guards all over, that they are taking all reasonable precautions to prevent robberies, so they would not be responsible.

That is the casino argument - and the general casino result - that they're safe to play in and be in.
Short of metal detectors at the doors, and security personnel every 10 feet.
I believe there's a good faith effort to make casinos a safe to play.

- How many feel uncomfortable, or unsafe there in a casino?
A Poll?

The OP said that the guy was leaving the table with 10K. He must have had 10-1k chips or 20-500 chips. If it were me, I would be holding those chips very tightly and practically nothing would make me let go, until I got to the cage.

But I was thinking of the saying"A fool and his money are soon parted"
With that kind of value the right move would be to ask for a security escort, but I imagine pride would get in the way and keep many people from asking.

I agree that the casino prob does not have an obligation to refund monies stolen, but do it based on showing a good face to some customers. At their discretion of course.