Pass and Don't Pass simultaneously to get to the odds bet
June 26th, 2013 at 8:43:46 AM
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Let's say I usually play a $10 craps table but I could only find a $25 table in the Casino, and I wasn't comfortable playing my usual pass and come bets with odds on this $25 table.
So, I decide to put $25 on pass, $25 on don't pass, and $25 to take the odds behind the line (and then uses the same methodology on the come bets). I this a good approach or would I be better off at just making a $25 pass bet?
I know the house edge on the pass bet is 1.4%, so would the house edge on this proposed bet be .92% (($25 x 1.45% + $25 x 1.36% + $25 x 0%) ) / 75?
Thank you for your help
So, I decide to put $25 on pass, $25 on don't pass, and $25 to take the odds behind the line (and then uses the same methodology on the come bets). I this a good approach or would I be better off at just making a $25 pass bet?
I know the house edge on the pass bet is 1.4%, so would the house edge on this proposed bet be .92% (($25 x 1.45% + $25 x 1.36% + $25 x 0%) ) / 75?
Thank you for your help
June 26th, 2013 at 8:51:42 AM
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This link might help you out.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/1354-doey-dont-with-full-odds/
Maybe, since you're used to a $10 line bet, why would you not put $35 on the PL and $25 on the DPL, in essence giving you that $10 line bet, knowing full well that the 12 will crush you? Others, I am sure will weigh in. Better yet, don't overbet your bankroll. Stay away from the table until you can play comfortably. My 2 cents.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/tables/1354-doey-dont-with-full-odds/
Maybe, since you're used to a $10 line bet, why would you not put $35 on the PL and $25 on the DPL, in essence giving you that $10 line bet, knowing full well that the 12 will crush you? Others, I am sure will weigh in. Better yet, don't overbet your bankroll. Stay away from the table until you can play comfortably. My 2 cents.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
June 26th, 2013 at 9:00:00 AM
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Well quite simply you are taking a 1/36 chance of losing $25 to get "free" free odds. The math is against it, best to come back earlier in the day.
With team play this might and I stress might be a way to get a free meal at a full and slow table.
With team play this might and I stress might be a way to get a free meal at a full and slow table.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
June 26th, 2013 at 9:11:54 AM
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Quote: bushmanBetter yet, don't overbet your bankroll. Stay away from the table until you can play comfortably. My 2 cents.
Hear, hear!
The only time I stray from a $5 minimum table is for PGP, and then only because of the many pushes which take place in the game.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 26th, 2013 at 10:12:45 AM
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Bet $25 on pass, and $25 (or $26 if the point is 5/9) on odds. No other bets. Thou shalt not hedge!
Otherwise, yeah, best strategy is to go down to the $10 table.
Otherwise, yeah, best strategy is to go down to the $10 table.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
June 26th, 2013 at 11:01:11 AM
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Yes, paying 1/36 to get to the "free" odds bet, and reduce volatility of pass line bet, making my bankroll go further. I realize this is NOT making the best bet possible on the table, but the question is, is this bet better than just the pass line bet with no odds ?
The math may be against it, I am not sure. When taking into account the entire money at risk on the bet, I come up with a house edge of .9% . This is better than just the pass bet. I do not see any error in the equation I presented, but there may be one. I would love for someone to disprove it and show me where/how the math is may be wrong.
The math may be against it, I am not sure. When taking into account the entire money at risk on the bet, I come up with a house edge of .9% . This is better than just the pass bet. I do not see any error in the equation I presented, but there may be one. I would love for someone to disprove it and show me where/how the math is may be wrong.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:04:43 PM
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Quote: crappycraigYes, paying 1/36 to get to the "free" odds bet, and reduce volatility of pass line bet, making my bankroll go further. I realize this is NOT making the best bet possible on the table, but the question is, is this bet better than just the pass line bet with no odds ?
I want to say yes, because you are making two separate bets - Pass and Don't Pass - and the combined house advantage is better than the HA on just the Pass (since the HA on Don't is better than on Pass).
However, using that line of reasoning, why not just bet on Don't Pass and take (well, lay) odds? The HA is better than betting both ways.
June 27th, 2013 at 4:28:22 AM
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I used to have the Wizard's older take on this bookmarked, it comes up a lot. Can't find it anymore after their re-vamp.
Here is what I can find now:
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/craps/betting-systems/ [check about half-way down]
The main problem is you are betting twice as much on the line, both bets against a house edge. "you are only mixing another house edge bet into the game by betting on both the pass and don’t pass, or come and don’t come." in the Wizard's words
Here is what I can find now:
https://wizardofodds.com/ask-the-wizard/craps/betting-systems/ [check about half-way down]
The main problem is you are betting twice as much on the line, both bets against a house edge. "you are only mixing another house edge bet into the game by betting on both the pass and don’t pass, or come and don’t come." in the Wizard's words
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
June 27th, 2013 at 6:40:09 AM
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Make a friend that doesn't play max odds. Play their odds. I love playing craps with friends. I get to play at 0% house edge!
June 27th, 2013 at 6:45:58 AM
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Quote: FinsRuleMake a friend that doesn't play max odds. Play their odds. I love playing craps with friends. I get to play at 0% house edge!
Ah, if only I could find friends like that, at the table. Plus, friends that would understand what I was doing, and not take my money on wins.
A little aside to your comment. In NM, there are a few casinos that have the free buy bet on the 4 and 10. When I do play at these casinos (very seldom, I prefer LV) I buy the 4 and 10. Great when they're showing, but the last two times I have played the doggone 6 and 8 keep showing up (numbers I would normally be on) with no 4's or 10's showing. That is why they call it gambling. Even with no juice on those buys, it does me no good when they're not showing.
Never count your winnings at hour 23 of a 24-hour drive.
June 27th, 2013 at 7:00:49 AM
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Quote: FinsRuleMake a friend that doesn't play max odds. Play their odds. I love playing craps with friends. I get to play at 0% house edge!
Fantastic idea ! During my outing which lead to this question, I had a friend making come bets with no odds.
June 27th, 2013 at 7:10:01 AM
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Quote: ThatDonGuy
However, using that line of reasoning, why not just bet on Don't Pass and take (well, lay) odds? The HA is better than betting both ways.
Because of risk management/cash flow. The pass/don't pass only costs one betting unit every 36 rolls (no chance of ever winning). Don't pass alone costs 18 (rounded) betting units over 36 rolls, and then very costly if a bad streak is hit.
There is a cost that must be paid to manage this cash flow and create this psuedo lower table minimum, but I think the extra premium may be reasonable.
Now to argue against myself, I am thinking my math is misleading and I may be better off with a pass bet and no odds.
