How to chop up (split) a slot ticket?
Given my bankroll and expected variance (25c @ 100 hands). It's very unlikely I'll get a W2G, but I'm concerned instead about a CTR.
Today the slot voucher value went all the way to ~$8500. Any more winnings would put it above $10k and cause a CTR, which will be a pain in the ass in many ways. The redemption machines refuse to pay out a ticket that high. I'm only able to do it at the cashier.
What I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
It can be done, but there's -EV cost and risk.Quote: VladPutinObviously this applies more to video poker than slots. As the better RTP video poker games are unfortunately high limit.
Given my bankroll and expected variance (25c @ 100 hands). It's very unlikely I'll get a W2G, but I'm concerned instead about a CTR.
Today the slot voucher value went all the way to ~$8500. Any more winnings would put it above $10k and cause a CTR, which will be a pain in the ass in many ways. The redemption machines refuse to pay out a ticket that high. I'm only able to do it at the cashier.
What I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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Quote: VladPutinObviously this applies more to video poker than slots. As the better RTP video poker games are unfortunately high limit.
Given my bankroll and expected variance (25c @ 100 hands). It's very unlikely I'll get a W2G, but I'm concerned instead about a CTR.
Today the slot voucher value went all the way to ~$8500. Any more winnings would put it above $10k and cause a CTR, which will be a pain in the ass in many ways. The redemption machines refuse to pay out a ticket that high. I'm only able to do it at the cashier.
What I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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Not to sound judgmental, but I think money launderers would love to hear the solution. Common strategies are enumerated here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casino_regulations_under_the_Bank_Secrecy_Act
Quote: VladPutinObviously this applies more to video poker than slots. As the better RTP video poker games are unfortunately high limit.
Given my bankroll and expected variance (25c @ 100 hands). It's very unlikely I'll get a W2G, but I'm concerned instead about a CTR.
Today the slot voucher value went all the way to ~$8500. Any more winnings would put it above $10k and cause a CTR, which will be a pain in the ass in many ways. The redemption machines refuse to pay out a ticket that high. I'm only able to do it at the cashier.
What I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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Very simple. When you go to the cage tell them that you are not comfortable with that much cash and ask for a check. Check's do not trigger a CTR.
Quote: VladPutinWhat I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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An ounce of prevention?
Every IGT machine and probably other permits the casino to set a limit above which wins less than $1200 will be paid automatically as a voucher. AGS allows this too, so maybe it the function is built into the printer. The limit is normally $3000 so casinos don't have to file SARs. If this is one machine, you might ask them if they can configure the $3000 limit on your machine.
Otherwise, it is up to you to cash out at some value, and I try to do it below the value the redemption machines accept.
An M1 Abrams tank will do a good job of chopping up a ticket.Quote: VladPutinWhat I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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Quote: UP84An M1 Abrams tank will do a good job of chopping up a ticket.Quote: VladPutinWhat I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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lololololololololololol
Quote: MentalQuote: VladPutinWhat I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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An ounce of prevention?
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I knew someone was going to bring up prevention sooner or later.
But I lied about this being about video poker. Actually I didn't lie. I do indeed have this concern with my VP, but you're right. That's somewhat more preventable. The intention of my question had more to do with my concern with another game than VP. But I used VP as an example for... reasons
The one I'm actually concerned with is E-blackjack. When my local casino runs a specific promotion, it makes the E-blackjack positive EV. I have the bankroll to withstand the max bet of 2x $500. But I can not allow the swing to get past $10k for all Forced-Cashier-Cashed-Tickets. And definitely can't allow over $10k on a single ticket. Even though $10k is nothing for a bet size of $1k each.
It's seriously cutting into my hands per hour and hence my EV per hour.
Also to whomever said anything over $1200 gets a W2G on a different thread ( I forgot which one). No that's not true, it's only the case for low denomination video poker and low denomination slots. Hand pays are not triggered unless there's a multiple of the bet size in ADDITION to a $1200 minimum. I think the multiple is 200x? Which makes the bet size $6. But don't quote me on that. The fact that hand pays don't trigger on big bets like E-blackjack is confirmed by my personal experience, even if I don't know the exact multiplier.
If you're going to be betting $1K per hand of BJ, that could wind up being an $8K win or loss if splitting to 4 hands and doubling down at a table game, or $4K win or loss if doubling down to 2 hands. The simple problem is you are betting too high for a slot machine and need to move to a table. Then you need to cash-out your chips for under $9.5K per day at the cage, or feel free to cash-out much more, on the order of $50K+.
You could start ratholing casino checks: $15K here, $25K there, it'll add up. You'll end up like MDawg on this forum with an embarrassment of riches, but without multiple credit lines. Or you could deposit them as front money so you'll always have some line of credit for larger buy-ins at the tables. But I'm starting to suspect you prefer E-BJ because there's no heat.
In this age of COVID, I don't trust casinos to stay open for more than a month at a time, so I wouldn't keep much outstanding that the casino should cash-out. Banks could fail next month, then what? Will casinos have cash? The Bank Of England is looking a little Lehman-y to me next week.
I wish I had a solution for breaking down vouchers. Have you asked the cage to exchange on voucher for two or more vouchers of identical value? You can say the machines won't accept anything over $3000, or whatever the true limit is. You say you want to keep playing without going to cash.
Quote: MentalI played hybrid e-craps years ago for a promotion. No W2-Gs for bets around $2K on each of two machine with odds. The problem was redemption machines only cashed max $3K. The cage asked for ID for more than $5K. It definitely slows things down to try to stay below $3K and definitely cash out before $5K. Everyone around sees you handling large amounts of cash if you are cashing out, and you need a lot of cash to just rathole vouchers along the way,
I wish I had a solution for breaking down vouchers. Have you asked the cage to exchange on voucher for two or more vouchers of identical value? You can say the machines won't accept anything over $3000, or whatever the true limit is. You say you want to keep playing without going to cash.
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Thanks, that sounds similar to my situation. I don't mind giving them ID... but only to a small extent. Giving them ID once or twice might be ok. Giving them ID over and over might look like "structuring". I mentioned on a different thread how ridiculous it is that the $1200 and $10000 limits never accounted for inflation. The $1200 limit by now should be close to $3000 in true value.
Nonetheless I haven't tried asking the cage to exchange vouchers. I don't think they have the capabilities to produce vouchers (for example printing you a $4000 voucher), do they? I'm not sure
Quote: ChumpChangeOnly cash-out up to $9.5K of vouchers per casino gaming day (24+ hours from your last cash-out.) Come back another day to cash more vouchers out, no need to play anything except to win more vouchers. You'll be ratholing vouchers until you run out of them on successive cash-out days.
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That sounds like structuring, which the authorities seem to take quite seriously.
Quote: DieterQuote: ChumpChangeOnly cash-out up to $9.5K of vouchers per casino gaming day (24+ hours from your last cash-out.) Come back another day to cash more vouchers out, no need to play anything except to win more vouchers. You'll be ratholing vouchers until you run out of them on successive cash-out days.
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That sounds like structuring, which the authorities seem to take quite seriously.
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Dieter, I thank you. And you and only you know what I mean by that.
And now you actually see a live example of exactly what I meant when I messaged you.
I've seen one Bubble Craps machine on YouTube where a player was well over $20K in credits, so that must be some kind of exception to the rule of a $3K credit maximum including the amount on the virtual felt.
This E-BJ game sounds like an exception if has bets of $1,000 per hand or better. I could put $10K in there and run it up to $20K or better on $500 hands. But if the rules suck, then a table would be a better place to play. I find slot machines give me beginner's luck then they go ice cold for longer than I care to play.
Is it really structuring if you only win up to and cash out $9,500 each day? I think not. If you're ratholing vouchers though, will the cage computer notice that you came in on a separate day and the computer looks retroactively and finds you cashed out a previous voucher for the same day this one was printed? The date of issuance of the vouchers is the same but you cashed them in a week apart and they total over $10K. Would the cage computer cross-check the date with your previous cash-out a week earlier?
Quote: AxelWolfQuestion: what's the maximum amount of TITO you can put in the machine? Does the machine not ever kick out tickets over a certain amount? If this is an ongoing play why not just keep using the same ticket?
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Not sure exact but the $3k the other dude mentioned seems to be ballpark correct for this casino. Yes, it has kicked out tickets before, but I don't know if it's because the ticket is too big or for some other reason. I was forced to cash it at the cashier.
And of course I'll use the same ticket as much as possible. But due to the large bet size, it can easily climb above $10k and since blackjack is a very low EV game, and as I said, with the promotion +EV, once it goes above 10k it might never come down. I was forced to stop at 8k, cash it out, and then reduce my bet so that I don't look like I'm doing any sketchy financial stuff. I'm no money launderer. I'm just an advantage player like everyone else here. I just happen to find a method that requires betting big, or at least, more efficient when betting big.
Quote: ChumpChangeSome YouTube slot players seem to deal with $50K vouchers with no problem, but they'll have to use a PIN for hand pays on $1200+ jackpots even for 3 of a kind on VP.
I've seen one Bubble Craps machine on YouTube where a player was well over $20K in credits, so that must be some kind of exception to the rule of a $3K credit maximum including the amount on the virtual felt.
You sure it's 50k US Dollars?
Quote: ChumpChangeI find slot machines give me beginner's luck then they go ice cold for longer than I care to play.
Huhhhh?????????????????????????????????????
Quote: ChumpChangeIs it really structuring if you only win up to and cash out $9,500 each day?
Yes. Do ducks waddle? If something quacks is it a duck? Is chicken a duck? Casino cashier probably thinks $9500 a duck because it quacks like one. Not to mention $9500 is literally the textbook number for structuring. At least try 8888 and say you're influenced by Asian culture.
Has anyone ever seen a ticket redemption machine that will do more than $3000 in one transaction? I have not. If I put in multiple voucher, I will get stopped before the total is $3000. This is also so the casino does not have to make a decision to file a SAR.
At most properties, I cannot feed in a voucher that will take the total credits in play to $3000+. This is also for SAR avoidance. I have seen machines that will take one $3000+ voucher. I don't believe I have ever been able to get another voucher into a machine to put me over $3000. I am not 100% sure on this. Some casinos wans me be able to play with a big voucher, but do not want me to be able to create a new one by consolidating vouchers at a machine.
I agree that cashing vouchers just under $10K daily is structuring under the regs. It looks like structuring to the casino and if I am doing it to avoid CTRs, then it is structuring.
Nobody mentioned bill stuffing, but this is also in the regs as a practice that should be monitored by the casinos, even if it is not illegal, per se. Some casinos will send security to talk with you if you do it. Casinos are required to follow these regs. This is not a suggested practice like the speed limit on the I-15.
Quote: DieterQuote: ChumpChangeOnly cash-out up to $9.5K of vouchers per casino gaming day (24+ hours from your last cash-out.) Come back another day to cash more vouchers out, no need to play anything except to win more vouchers. You'll be ratholing vouchers until you run out of them on successive cash-out days.
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That sounds like structuring, which the authorities seem to take quite seriously.
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That is definitely structuring. The casinos where I taught Money Laundering courses would definitely notice that and report it.
Quote: ViennaPizza
Nonetheless I haven't tried asking the cage to exchange vouchers. I don't think they have the capabilities to produce vouchers (for example printing you a $4000 voucher), do they? I'm not sure
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I have taken out markers where they asked whether I wanted vouchers or cash or a combination. They had a safe behind the cage with stacks of preprinted $1000 and $2000 vouchers. More and more casinos are offering to pay sub-$3000 taxable wins with vouchers. One casino told me they could not give me vouchers for cash immediately, but they could get a manager to the cage to do it. I asked to buy five $2000 vouchers and had them to me within half an hour.
Every one of these casino can print vouchers for amounts less than $3000 at the cage. It is just a question of whether they have a standing policy to do it and will they do it to break a larger voucher. Even if it is not existing policy, a manager might approve it. This transaction does not involve cash and will not be covered by the money laundering regs. You can already consolidate by machine without management approval. Why wouldn't breaking down be allowed?
Quote: DRichThat is definitely structuring. The casinos where I taught Money Laundering courses would definitely notice that and report it.
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Did you talk about bill stuffing in your course? This is creating multiple vouchers at the machine and cashing them out with no or minimal play. Turning them directly back into cash is a big no-no. Keeping them in your wallet and playing with them throughout the day should be okay, but the computer algorithms don't know what your intentions are.
I did this in my e-craps days so I could cash out vouchers just below $3000 and put $1000 vouchers in to keep playing without going to the redemption machines. It could be hard to get a seat if you left in the middle of a promo to cash out. I have also done this on VP and slot plays while I was waiting for hand pays. Only one property got their underwear in a bunch over this bill stuffing.
Quote: MentalQuote: DRichThat is definitely structuring. The casinos where I taught Money Laundering courses would definitely notice that and report it.
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Did you talk about bill stuffing in your course? This is creating multiple vouchers at the machine and cashing them out with no or minimal play. Turning them directly back into cash is a big no-no. Keeping them in your wallet and playing with them throughout the day should be okay, but the computer algorithms don't know what your intentions are.
Absolutely. Today many of the player tracking systems will report if they believe this is going on. Obviously it is hard for people to observe this in a busy casino but the machine can report when many bills are being put it with very little play.
Quote: DRichQuote: MentalQuote: DRichThat is definitely structuring. The casinos where I taught Money Laundering courses would definitely notice that and report it.
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Did you talk about bill stuffing in your course? This is creating multiple vouchers at the machine and cashing them out with no or minimal play. Turning them directly back into cash is a big no-no. Keeping them in your wallet and playing with them throughout the day should be okay, but the computer algorithms don't know what your intentions are.
Absolutely. Today many of the player tracking systems will report if they believe this is going on. Obviously it is hard for people to observe this in a busy casino but the machine can report when many bills are being put it with very little play.
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Did your training include how to decide this if this is innocent behavior?
I usually don't have a card in the game machine where I create the vouchers. Does the monitoring software treat carded and uncarded bill stuffing the same?
Does the software monitor account for vouchers that are subsequently played in another machine?
When I have been approached about this, I am usually playing big and often the problem vouchers have already been consumed. I was still publicly and falsely accused of committing a crime, even though t is not a crime in the regs -- just suspicious behavior that needs to be investigated. Maybe you trained the jerk who publicly defamed me ;)
If I buy-in for $1,000 at BJ and win up to $10,850 then tip the dealer a black chip then go to the cage and cash out $9,750 while keeping a $1,000 chip in my pocket for my next buy-in on another day, is that structuring?
Quote: Mental
Did your training include how to decide this if this is innocent behavior?
I usually don't have a card in the game machine where I create the vouchers. Does the monitoring software treat carded and uncarded bill stuffing the same?
Does the software monitor account for vouchers that are subsequently played in another machine?
When I have been approached about this, I am usually playing big and often the problem vouchers have already been consumed. I was still publicly and falsely accused of committing a crime, even though t is not a crime in the regs -- just suspicious behavior that needs to be investigated. Maybe you trained the jerk who publicly defamed me ;)
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No, the software just flags an issue that someone would personally address. Obviously if you are not carded the machine doesn't know who is doing the stuffing. The system will just identify the machine number and time of event in case someone wants to review video.
Of course there is no committing a crime by putting money into the machine. We would always just consider it suspicious activity and file a SAR.
Quote: ChumpChangeIf I buy-in for $1,000 at BJ and win up to $10,250, then tip the dealer a purple chip then go to the cage and cash-out $9,750, is that structuring?
If I buy-in for $1,000 at BJ and win up to $10,850 then tip the dealer a black chip then go to the cage and cash out $9,750 while keeping a $1,000 chip in my pocket for my next buy-in on another day, is that structuring?
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Probably not if you do it just once. This is from a story on the FinCen site: https://www.fincen.gov/resources/law-enforcement/case-examples/judge-rules-defendant-guilty-structuring-no-connection
"During the time-period cited in the indictment, the defendant made approximately 15 cash deposits at local branches. All but two of the transactions were for amounts ranging from $9,000 to $9,900, and none of the transactions were for $10,000 or more."
I am sure you can search and find more examples of convictions for legitimate businesses. Structuring does not require money laundering.
Buy-in for exactly $10K at a BJ table and they won't fill out a form. Cash-out over $10K and they will.
I've played at casinos where a redemption machine will not cash a ticket for more than $1000.
Quote: ViennaPizzaQuote: MentalQuote: VladPutinWhat I'm really looking for is some way to divide my $8500 ticket into something like 4 tickets of $2000. But... how?
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An ounce of prevention?
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I knew someone was going to bring up prevention sooner or later.
But I lied about this being about video poker. Actually I didn't lie. I do indeed have this concern with my VP, but you're right. That's somewhat more preventable. The intention of my question had more to do with my concern with another game than VP. But I used VP as an example for... reasons
The one I'm actually concerned with is E-blackjack. When my local casino runs a specific promotion, it makes the E-blackjack positive EV. I have the bankroll to withstand the max bet of 2x $500. But I can not allow the swing to get past $10k for all Forced-Cashier-Cashed-Tickets. And definitely can't allow over $10k on a single ticket. Even though $10k is nothing for a bet size of $1k each.
It's seriously cutting into my hands per hour and hence my EV per hour.
Also to whomever said anything over $1200 gets a W2G on a different thread ( I forgot which one). No that's not true, it's only the case for low denomination video poker and low denomination slots. Hand pays are not triggered unless there's a multiple of the bet size in ADDITION to a $1200 minimum. I think the multiple is 200x? Which makes the bet size $6. But don't quote me on that. The fact that hand pays don't trigger on big bets like E-blackjack is confirmed by my personal experience, even if I don't know the exact multiplier.
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In theory, couldn't you just pre-print lesser tickets, then when you get close to the 10k figure (or at risk) cash out the ticket from the machine and put in one of the ones you pre-printed.
Either that, or eat the loss in HPH. It really sounds like you're trying to balance EV with not drawing attention to either yourself or the play.
Last paragraph: I believe E-Games are regulated and treated as Table Games for taxation purposes sometimes, but that might depend on how the specific casino handles it. If it should get a W2-G by letter of the law, I could understand casinos not wanting to do that if it won't be noticed, pain in everybody's butt anyway.
Quote: ViennaPizza
Also to whomever said anything over $1200 gets a W2G on a different thread ( I forgot which one). No that's not true, it's only the case for low denomination video poker and low denomination slots. Hand pays are not triggered unless there's a multiple of the bet size in ADDITION to a $1200 minimum. I think the multiple is 200x? Which makes the bet size $6. But don't quote me on that. The fact that hand pays don't trigger on big bets like E-blackjack is confirmed by my personal experience, even if I don't know the exact multiplier.
That is incorrect for electronic gaming machines. Slots, video poker, video blackjack, etc will all issue a W2G for wins of $1200 or more in the U.S. The 300x and so forth does not apply to gaming machines.
Play a $100 video poker game at 5 coins and if you get a three of a kind you will get a W2G reported.
Quote: DRichThat is incorrect for electronic gaming machines. Slots, video poker, video blackjack, etc will all issue a W2G for wins of $1200 or more in the U.S. The 300x and so forth does not apply to gaming machines.
Play a $100 video poker game at 5 coins and if you get a three of a kind you will get a W2G reported.
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Hybrid E-Craps is not defined as a slot game. The dice are rolled by a human (or the casino employee if no player wants the task). This allows it to be regulated as a table game with an electronic betting console.
I remember when Maryland Live! made the switch and the $1200 W2-Gs were a thing of the past.
I would think the same applies to stadium BJ with a human dealer.
Quote: Mission146
In theory, couldn't you just pre-print lesser tickets, then when you get close to the 10k figure (or at risk) cash out the ticket from the machine and put in one of the ones you pre-printed.
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Sure, you can try that approach. If I tried to keep the tickets below $5K playing E-Craps both ways, l would burn through twenty $1K tickets pretty quickly doing this. Pretty crazy bringing $20K to a session where I have almost zero variance between the sum of the do and don't machine bankrolls. I was playing with a card and I often showed ID at the cage to cash out $3-5K vouchers. Depending on the variance of the play, this is a tricky problem to optimize in terms of time and cash outs on my account.
I was just thinking that if you just keep playing with the same ticket eventually it should start kicking out tickets that go above whatever the machine is set at. Assuming the machine will also accept a ticket for up to that threshold there shouldn't ever be an issue with any large tickets until the very end and you are done with the play. At that point, just deal with getting CTRed. I don't see any issue with that.Quote: ViennaPizzaQuote: AxelWolfQuestion: what's the maximum amount of TITO you can put in the machine? Does the machine not ever kick out tickets over a certain amount? If this is an ongoing play why not just keep using the same ticket?
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Not sure exact but the $3k the other dude mentioned seems to be ballpark correct for this casino. Yes, it has kicked out tickets before, but I don't know if it's because the ticket is too big or for some other reason. I was forced to cash it at the cashier.
And of course I'll use the same ticket as much as possible. But due to the large bet size, it can easily climb above $10k and since blackjack is a very low EV game, and as I said, with the promotion +EV, once it goes above 10k it might never come down. I was forced to stop at 8k, cash it out, and then reduce my bet so that I don't look like I'm doing any sketchy financial stuff. I'm no money launderer. I'm just an advantage player like everyone else here. I just happen to find a method that requires betting big, or at least, more efficient when betting big.
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But, am I correct in understanding that any kicked-out tickets at this location won't be accepted into a machine or ticket redemption kiosk? I have run into that in the past. I seem to recall it being a smaller font when it's a forced kick-out ticket as opposed to a regular cashed-out ticket.
Whatever the case, any attempts at avoiding a CTR is probably considered structuring. What might bring even more/quicker attention to the play is if they believe you are trying to structure.
Quote: DRichQuote: ViennaPizza
Also to whomever said anything over $1200 gets a W2G on a different thread ( I forgot which one). No that's not true, it's only the case for low denomination video poker and low denomination slots. Hand pays are not triggered unless there's a multiple of the bet size in ADDITION to a $1200 minimum. I think the multiple is 200x? Which makes the bet size $6. But don't quote me on that. The fact that hand pays don't trigger on big bets like E-blackjack is confirmed by my personal experience, even if I don't know the exact multiplier.
That is incorrect for electronic gaming machines. Slots, video poker, video blackjack, etc will all issue a W2G for wins of $1200 or more in the U.S. The 300x and so forth does not apply to gaming machines.
Play a $100 video poker game at 5 coins and if you get a three of a kind you will get a W2G reported.
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This is absolutely incorrect. Unless there's something weird about your casino. The multiplier absolutely applies here. That is the word of the pitboss AND my 8k voucher speaks for itself. I am aware they are treated as slot machines, but the 200x applies to all machines.
Quote: AxelWolfI was just thinking that if you just keep playing with the same ticket eventually it should start kicking out tickets that go above whatever the machine is set at. Assuming the machine will also accept a ticket for up to that threshold there shouldn't ever be an issue with any large tickets until the very end and you are done with the play. At that point, just deal with getting CTRed. I don't see any issue with that.Quote: ViennaPizzaQuote: AxelWolfQuestion: what's the maximum amount of TITO you can put in the machine? Does the machine not ever kick out tickets over a certain amount? If this is an ongoing play why not just keep using the same ticket?
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Not sure exact but the $3k the other dude mentioned seems to be ballpark correct for this casino. Yes, it has kicked out tickets before, but I don't know if it's because the ticket is too big or for some other reason. I was forced to cash it at the cashier.
And of course I'll use the same ticket as much as possible. But due to the large bet size, it can easily climb above $10k and since blackjack is a very low EV game, and as I said, with the promotion +EV, once it goes above 10k it might never come down. I was forced to stop at 8k, cash it out, and then reduce my bet so that I don't look like I'm doing any sketchy financial stuff. I'm no money launderer. I'm just an advantage player like everyone else here. I just happen to find a method that requires betting big, or at least, more efficient when betting big.
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But, am I correct in understanding that any kicked-out tickets at this location won't be accepted into a machine or ticket redemption kiosk? I have run into that in the past. I seem to recall it being a smaller font when it's a forced kick-out ticket as opposed to a regular cashed-out ticket.
Whatever the case, any attempts at avoiding a CTR is probably considered structuring. What might bring even more/quicker attention to the play is if they believe you are trying to structure.
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It doesn't kick out tickets if you mean when the balance reaches a certain point. It just kicks it out if you say, take a break, cash out, come back after dinner with the same voucher, it won't accept it if it's more than 3k and kicks it out immediately.
I'm no money launderer. Just an AP like everyone else here, except my bet size is large and the swings are enough to cause 10k+
But as someone already pointed out, asking for a cashier check will avoid CTR altogether. Cash is dirty, check is clean. Not that I care anyway, but money launderers do. So I think it was a good advice.
REAL DICE STADIUM CRAPS at Planet Hollywood Casino Las Vegas •Bubble Craps •Episode 100 - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShYc3yO_cH8
$10K table limit! Much higher than the $3K on Auto Bubble Craps.
Quote: ViennaPizza
This is absolutely incorrect. Unless there's something weird about your casino. The multiplier absolutely applies here. That is the word of the pitboss AND my 8k voucher speaks for itself. I am aware they are treated as slot machines, but the 200x applies to all machines.
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Your voucher proves nothing. W2-Gs are issued based on a single win, not accumulated credits.
I have received W2-Gs from over 50 different casinos. For slot machines, every $1200+ win triggered a W2-G and every single win less than $1200 failed to trigger one.
Gambling facilities are required to document your winnings with a Form W-2G under certain circumstances:
$1,200 or more in winnings from bingo or slot machines
$1,500 or more from keno
$5,000 or more from poker tournaments
$600 in winnings from other types of gambling, if the payout is at least 300 times the amount of the wager
Bubble e-craps is a slot machine. Hybrid e-craps with a human shooter is a table game. I don't know much about e-BJ aside from Shufflemaster and there the limit is $1200.
https://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g
Reportable Gambling Winnings
Report gambling winnings on Form W-2G if:
The winnings (not reduced by the wager) are $1,200 or more from a bingo game or slot machine;
The winnings (reduced by the wager) are $1,500 or more from a keno game;
The winnings (reduced by the wager or buy-in) are more than $5,000 from a poker tournament;
The winnings (except winnings from bingo, slot machines, keno, and poker tournaments) reduced, at the option of the payer, by the wager are:
$600 or more, and
At least 300 times the amount of the wager; or
The winnings are subject to federal income tax withholding (either regular gambling withholding or backup withholding).
Quote: ViennaPizza
This is absolutely incorrect. Unless there's something weird about your casino. The multiplier absolutely applies here. That is the word of the pitboss AND my 8k voucher speaks for itself. I am aware they are treated as slot machines, but the 200x applies to all machines.
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Point me to one game that is classified as an electronic gaming machine in a regulated casino that doesn't issue a W2G for wins of $1200 or more. I have done work in close to 100 casinos in the USA and I have never seen one. I am guessing you can't.
Now these stadium games may have higher bets, but I'd have to find someone on YouTube playing.
Matrix Glitchy Video Black Jack
ELECTRONIC BLACKJACK: LIVE CASINO BLACKJACK PLAY ON ELECTRONIC BLACKJACK MACHINE AT TROPICANA - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pikqVqThgcY
Even this machine is crimped with a $295 maximum BJ base bet.
The Royal Match Crown Treasures could pay anywhere from $1K to $10K on a win though.
Quote: DRich
Point me to one game that is classified as an electronic gaming machine in a regulated casino that doesn't issue a W2G for wins of $1200 or more. I have done work in close to 100 casinos in the USA and I have never seen one. I am guessing you can't.
Quote: Mental
The winnings (except winnings from bingo, slot machines, keno, and poker tournaments) reduced, at the option of the payer, by the wager are:
$600 or more, and
At least 300 times the amount of the wager; or
The winnings are subject to federal income tax withholding (either regular gambling withholding or backup withholding).
I'm telling you, personal antidotally, I haven't bet $500 on EBJ yet but had no problems with $200x2 bets so far.
Personal antidotally, the 300x wager absolutely applies in my previous bubble craps experience.
I have definitely had Origional bet+win exceed 1200 before. I recall the largest was approximately table max of $2000 spread over 5 don't pass/don't come and a 7 rolled, with a payout of $2000 origional bet + approx 1300 win = $3300, way more than $1200
On video poker I've hit a quarter royal on 10 play JOB for $1000 + the other 9 lines paid a total of approx $350, for a total of $1350, no W2G.
We may or may not be talking about the same kind of machines. But I'm just saying in my personal expierence 1200+ W2G only triggers on the 300x bet condition.
However, one possible explanation is the don't come bets on the bubble craps are treated individually. As in, each don't come bet was like $400 with a $250 win. Hence it is treated as 5 different bets with small wins than 1 big bet with W2G level wins.
