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20 members have voted

Dobrij
Dobrij
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December 3rd, 2017 at 2:33:32 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For the most part, when IGT(or others) make slots with all the different settings, where do they take and give EV from?

Do they lower the frequency of bonuses?
Do they lower the amount bonuses pay on average?
Do they cut down the frequency on certain line pays, if so, would they tend to cut down on the frequency of the bigger pays?
Do they go after the frequency of scatter pays?
Do they just take a little from each?



This is an interesting question ... maybe the number of symbols on reels is changing?
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 3rd, 2017 at 8:28:25 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

For the most part, when IGT(or others) make slots with all the different settings, where do they take and give EV from?

Do they lower the frequency of bonuses?
Do they lower the amount bonuses pay on average?
Do they cut down the frequency on certain line pays, if so, would they tend to cut down on the frequency of the bigger pays?
Do they go after the frequency of scatter pays?
Do they just take a little from each?



The cut down the probabilities of the big line pays. This is done by just changing a few symbols on the reel strips. For example, changing a wild to any specific line pay is an easy way to lower the return. They can also stagger the first three reels so that there is a shortage of certain symbols on certain reels, making it difficult to line up anything to for a win.

The return from the bonuses and scatters tend to remain constant.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
DRich
DRich
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December 3rd, 2017 at 8:36:18 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The cut down the probabilities of the big line pays. This is done by just changing a few symbols on the reel strips. For example, changing a wild to any specific line pay is an easy way to lower the return. They can also stagger the first three reels so that there is a shortage of certain symbols on certain reels, making it difficult to line up anything to for a win.

The return from the bonuses and scatters tend to remain constant.



My experience is a little different. Many of the video slots I worked on we adjusted the bonus frequency and the bonus payback. We tried to keep the base game rather similar so it was more difficult to identify different pay schedules.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
Wizard
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Wizard
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December 3rd, 2017 at 8:46:33 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

My experience is a little different. Many of the video slots I worked on we adjusted the bonus frequency and the bonus payback. We tried to keep the base game rather similar so it was more difficult to identify different pay schedules.



I just checked a popular video slot from the early 2000's by a major slot maker and the probability and return from both scatters and the bonus were the same on every par sheet, from 85% to 98%. Granted, a sample size of one is not very big, but I believe this was typical of the way said company did video slots at the time.

Out of respect for intellectual property, I won't reveal the game or the game maker.
Last edited by: Wizard on Dec 3, 2017
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
Dobrij
Dobrij
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December 3rd, 2017 at 8:57:34 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

The cut down the probabilities of the big line pays. This is done by just changing a few symbols on the reel strips. For example, changing a wild to any specific line pay is an easy way to lower the return. They can also stagger the first three reels so that there is a shortage of certain symbols on certain reels, making it difficult to line up anything to for a win.

The return from the bonuses and scatters tend to remain constant.



It says that models of old IGT have a real RNG : )
Last edited by: Dobrij on Dec 3, 2017
Mission146
Mission146
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December 3rd, 2017 at 9:47:47 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I just checked a popular video slot from the early 2000's by a major slot maker and the probability and return from both scatters and the bonus were the same on every par sheet, from 85% to 98%. Granted, a sample size of one is not very big, but I believe this was typical of the way said company did video slots at the time.

Out of respect for intellectual property, I won't reveal the game or the game maker. If you personally want to know, under confidentiality, PM me.



You can do it either way, but Quick Hits Platinum (ALL of the info was once available online at any time, probably by accident) works the way you describe above. There are five different return settings, but the probability of 5-9 QHP as well as of Free Games never changes. Makes sense if you think about it, from casino to casino, I think that people are much less likely to notice fewer higher paying base game symbols (replaced with cherries, or whatever) than they are to notice a disparity in Free Games from one device to another. That's not to say that they are likely to notice anything either way, just that changing something other than Free Games frequency makes it less likely.

Another reason for doing it that way, particularly with Progressives, is because you often have linked Progressives with those (and other) machines. If you're going to have linked Progressives, I believe it is necessary for the players to all have the same probability of hitting it on any individual spin. If that is true and the probabilities of Progressives remain the same, you can still have the individual units set to different overall returns that way...if you want.
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Wizard
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December 3rd, 2017 at 11:30:26 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You can do it either way, but Quick Hits Platinum (ALL of the info was once available online at any time, probably by accident) works the way you describe above.



Can you provide a source? I'd like to write about it.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
AxelWolf
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December 3rd, 2017 at 11:50:31 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

That's not to say that they are likely to notice anything either way, just that changing something other than Free Games frequency makes it less likely.

.

I don't remember exactly what the article said or how accurate the study was. It may have even been posted on VOV. It alluded to the fact that people could, in fact, tell when they were playing poorer paying slots.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
miplet
miplet
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December 3rd, 2017 at 6:35:50 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Can you provide a source? I'd like to write about it.


Relevant thread https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/slots/12930-quick-hits-simulator/ .
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100xOdds
100xOdds
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December 5th, 2017 at 5:56:34 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

You can do it either way, but Quick Hits Platinum (ALL of the info was once available online at any time, probably by accident) works the way you describe above. There are five different return settings, but the probability of 5-9 QHP as well as of Free Games never changes.


Black & White Double Jackpot - Quick Hit:
https://www.arcade-history.com/?n=black-and-white-double-jackpot-quick-hit-feature&page=detail&id=46134

it has a range for the return settings instead of a specific #.
ie: Min/Max %: 77.42%/88.09%, Min/Max %: 89.16%/93.97%, etc

what does it mean when the return setting has a range?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)

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