Arenas proposals (two new ones)

Before the recession two arenas large and modern enough to house a professional basketball or hockey team were proposed. One was downtown, and the other was behind Bally's and Paris. I felt that the acquisition of Planet Hollywood would increase the odds of building a new arena.

Instead two new proposals have surfaced .

One is for an arena on 10 acres of land donated by Harrah's behind Imperial Palace. Presumably the plan to develop outdoor restaurants and possibly a giant ferris wheel by Harrah's will make more sense if they donate land for an arena. The land is supposedly worth $182 million, but that seems questionable as Carl Icahn bought 24.5 acres of strip property with a partially completed 700' building for $153 million.

The second is for an arena near Fountainbleau on the Wet'n Wild lot where the Crown Tower was supposed to be built.

"One of the state’s most powerful company’s, MGM Mirage, says no tax money should be used on arenas, period."

I agree 100%. I don't really care where they build it, as long as it is entirely privately financed. Want another reason the city of LV should not get involved? Neonopolis.

Quote: Wizard

Want another reason the city of LV should not get involved? Neonopolis.

I agree, if the city can piss away $100m on Neonopolis, then think how much it could lose on an arena.

This is apparently becoming more of an issue with reports that the Dallas Cowboys owner is interested in luring not just top flight boxing matches (he bid for Mayweather Jr vs Pacquiao before it fell through) but the National Rodeo Finals too.

Harrah's has not yet donated the land. There motives are to get someone else to pay for an arena for which they will receive 98% of the rewards. They own every casino adjacent to that land. No wonder MGM says no tax dollars!

It is very nice of Harrah's to consider donating property that backs their hotels for this project. Very community oriented group of folks there!

Okay...I am not a fan of publicly built stadiums. Most of the time, the projections provided to show how the money will be repaid are wildly wrong...ummm...just like the government's deficit projections! They rely on only the best possible outcome and don't reflect reality (I have had enough of the current reality...I am ready for the next upswing). The economic impact is also overstated many times. The taxpayers get left holding the bag. That may be the citizens of the area or the tourists in this case. Either way, they always seem to need more money.

Giving them tax incentives and letting them build it privately is the way to go. These things keep getting more and more expensive to build; a corporate attitude looking at the bottom line may well help them build it more efficiently. If they have all the money they want, they will spend more. If there are limits (their own capitalization), the tendency will be to make if cost effective.

If Harrah's wants it, let them build it.

Quote: RonC

Okay...I am not a fan of publicly built stadiums. Most of the time, the projections provided to show how the money will be repaid are wildly wrong...ummm...just like the government's deficit projections! They rely on only the best possible outcome and don't reflect reality

When you take money rather than earn it, you won't be any good at managing it.

Consider the common government idea of a budget cut. Let's say you run a business which has yearly expenditures of $1 million. If you wanted to reduce your expenses by 10% a year, you'd simply find a way to spend only $900,000 a year, right?

Not governments. The way they'd go about it, an agency with yearly expenditures of $1 million would first add, say, $200,000 to its budget, then cut $20,000, for a total expenditure of $1,180,000, but would claim a 10% cut.

Silver State Arena which is the proposal for the Wet & Wild sight between the Sahara and Fountainbleau. Presumably it will provide the motivation to finish the resort.


Texas-based International Development Management to build the Silver State Arena. Its seating would vary from 20,000 to 22,000 based on the event. County records show the 27 acres are owned by Sahara Las Vegas Corp., a subsidiary of Archon Corp. Paul Lowden is listed in state records as president of Sahara Las Vegas Corp. His wife, Sue Lowden, a Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, is listed as secretary and treasurer. A year ago, International Development Management tried to buy the 27 acres for an estimated $618 million, but the deal never materialized.

In documents filed with the county, the arena proposal would cost $751.7 million ($404 million construction costs; $347 million for the land), and would employ 4,100 construction workers. An analysis by the group said it would create 7,300 permanent jobs and generate $371 million in tax revenue over 30 years. Groundbreaking could be this summer The arena would be completed in the third quarter of 2012, the company says.

To finance the project, the company wants the county to resurrect the redevelopment agency that commissioners killed last year. The site is in a redevelopment zone, so if the agency is reinstated, developers could keep property tax revenue generated as a result of redevelopment. They would use that revenue to pay off bonds sold to finance construction. Clark County would underwrite some but not all of the bonds. Two-thirds of project’s debt would be paid off with tax revenue, with the remainder paid through taxes collected in the redevelopment area.

Echoing Woodbury, Lee Haney, executive vice president of Rogich Communications Group, which represents International Development Management, said Las Vegas “needs the arena to host bigger and better events.” It will certainly provide motivation for Sahara to re-open it's buffet.

Thomas Hornbuckle reiterated over and over "The question is: Should public funds be used to fund the sixth arena in Clark County?" Do you know what are the existing 5 arenas?
1) Thomas & Mack Center is an arena on the campus of the University of Nevada, the capacity is 19,522
-) Cox Pavilion is a 2,472-seat indoor arena built in 2001.
2) MGM Grand Garden Arena has a seating capacity of 17,157 people
3) Mandalay Bay a 12,000-seat arena
4) Orleans Arena 9,500 seat multi-purpose arena
5) Colosseum at Caesars Palace is a 4,296-seat entertainment venue. The arena opened to the public in 2003.

I've heard from various places (might have been here) that because of Vegas being... well... the gambling capitol of North America... that no sports team would ever move or start there. Is this completely false, or is there some merit to it? I'm coming at this with absolutely zero research and asking for opinions for the (older) people who have seen Vegas get passed up over the past 20 years or so for sports teams.

Also, why would you EVER build an arena for 20k people? I mean if it's going to be used for smaller events I completely understand, but no sports team would be attracted to an arena with only 20k seats.

Lastly after reading this forum for the first time, I think people are drastically underestimating the expected value of a sports team. I mean we can all agree that having a sports team is like advertising, you can -never- figure out its real value to a city and the locals... just estimate. Caveat: I am slightly biased, a huge sports fan from Seattle who works in sports (as a hobby/fun job) and just had the Sonics stolen by OKC which also made a friend get let go because his industry was connected to them.

I would love to see a professional sports team in Las Vegas. It would definately add something to do when I take a trip there. And I think there would be a large enough market (both locals and tourists) to support a franchise.

The fun part would be naming the team.

I propose the "Las Vegas Gamblers" as a team name!