Is Craps A Loser?

I think it's a clear yes. By this I will explain. There are so many issues/problems with this game that makes it something a player might give up on.

1) Money Management. In BJ or Roulette, you know how much you have at any given time WITHOUT THE NEED TO COUNT YOUR CHIPS. In craps, most people lose track of how much they have/how they are doing. In roulette or BJ, if you're a serious player, you would leave the table if you lose a few times in a row. In craps however, hardly anyone does it as there's these ettiquette issues with coloring up all the time at a craps table. It's also just hard to walk away with a big stack of reds.

2) The Pace. It's way too fast. At a full table, it's ok. But when it's with 1 or 2 people, they keep pushing the dice out. It puts the shooter in a stressed position. Imagine shooting - the stick calls out the number - the stick slides the dice RIGHT BACK TO YOU and expects you to shoot right away. I think at that pace, it's like 3-4 rolls per minute. I don't think anyone old can handle this kind of pace as it is not a leisurely pace. I know you can ask to slow the game down etc... but it makes you feel like you're holding up the table sometimes. You can't really count your chips, place your bets leisurely, and then shoot the dice. I would have to say the right pace is about a minute per roll. That's just like a pitcher pitching without a chance at a break if it's at 3 rolls per minute. If you're playing by yourself, then you are even in more trouble as you ALMOST NEVER have a chance to count your chips. Of course, you can ask the game to be slowed down or try setting the dice etc... but setting the dice DOESN'T actually give you break time as you would get as someone else is shooting the dice and you're just sitting there leisurely doing whatever you want. When you're gambling you're already nervous. Throw in all these things, people's hands will start to shake. That's why there's this insane intimidation factor. With all these ettiquette issues, it really isn't as easy as it sounds requesting all these things of dealers (one roll per minute etc...).

These are the 2 main ones I can think of now. I feel that there are a lot more problems with the game (not the game itself, but the way it is done/dealt). I will post more as this discussion continues. So do you guys think it's HARD TO WIN MONEY in craps because of these issues? Is craps an extremely uncomfortable game? I would say it is as stressful as it gets.

Stressful? That's funny, because I absolutely love craps. I first learned to play it in the spring, and it's slowly taken over my play at the casinos to the point where I almost play it exclusively now.

Your first point is definitely a valid one. It's really easy to have large amounts of your bankroll out without even realizing it. That's why you have to just practice some discipline, and not try to expose your bank too much.

As far as counting the bankroll goes, you don't have to bet every single come out roll. Take a break, count how much you have, enjoy a drink!

Your second point can be a good one, like you said, if the table is empty. If you don't like empty tables, don't go to one! There's almost always a table around with a decent amount of people!

I think you're stressing out too much about this game. It's a game, enjoy it for what it is! Enjoy the cheering and the camaraderie!

Quote: ElectricDreams

Stressful? That's funny, because I absolutely love craps. I first learned to play it in the spring, and it's slowly taken over my play at the casinos to the point where I almost play it exclusively now.

I started playing later than you. I love the game but now I also hate many aspects of it.

Quote: ElectricDreams

Your second point can be a good one, like you said, if the table is empty. If you don't like empty tables, don't go to one! There's almost always a table around with a decent amount of people!

I actually gave it some thought. Then I guess the problem is with that when there's not much people at the table. I think there's a rule I will go by now. It's always playing with a friend.

Quote: ElectricDreams

I think you're stressing out too much about this game. It's a game, enjoy it for what it is! Enjoy the cheering and the camaraderie!

I totally appreciate your comments. But I still think it a case of easier said than done. I think that's why people are always saying the craps pit is intimidating. I also think it depends on where you play, the crew, the boxman's body language/attitude. That makes a serious difference. Do you play by yourself/have met rude dealers etc...?

Personally I prefer playing at a quiet table no matter what game I'm playing and even better if I'm the only one there. I never have an issue with craps being dealt too fast when I'm shooting becuase I'll only lean over and pick up the dice when I'm ready. I'll count my chips, take a drink, light a smoke or just stand there watching other players toss their chips down. I may have had a few nasty looks or rolled eyes from the crew over this but I couldn't care less. It's my money, I'm shooting and no one is going to make me throw the dice before I want. If you look at it that way, take your time and stop thinking about what anyone else says or does then you'll be fine, and from the sound of it you'll have less stress and enjoy the game more.

That's why I think I'm going to start to take the serious approach (not caring what the dealers say etc...). Sometimes you do hear dealers try to speed/rush/hurry up the game by saying "sir please shoot the dice" or "time is money" etc... That's just some of these "rush tactics" they use to make you speed up the game to try to get more rolls in. These are some of the issues I face that makes people feel uncomfortable sometimes.

I agree with you, that playing at an empty table sucks. Even with a buddy, it still sucks because I mean, if we get on a bad streak, then it's only up to ourselves to dig ourselves out..
Usually though, if we start playing, more people will come up and play.
It seems to me, that if I find a table that's full..when I walk up and a streak of bad luck happens, it empties out, and I'm again left alone...

The reason craps is so hard to beat is all the multiple bets that can be made and we hate to miss the action. The more bets we make such as multiple place bets including across or inside, the harder it is to win as the 7 is just too powerful. Stick with one good bet like the pass-odds bet, with a good money mgt plan on the odds bet, and will see your wins escalate.

Quote: TIMSPEED

I agree with you, that playing at an empty table sucks. Even with a buddy, it still sucks because I mean, if we get on a bad streak, then it's only up to ourselves to dig ourselves out..

Actually, with a buddy it is MUCH MUCH MUCH better as you can sit out while he is shooting to count your chips. It also takes a lot of the focus off of you as you do your little things. If you're by yourself, it feels like the whole table has to wait for you or "let me know when you're ready".

Quote: TIMSPEED

Usually though, if we start playing, more people will come up and play.

Yes, this is the best part. Unfortunately, I played starting at 2am once and it was myself the whole time pretty much. By the time someone came in, I was already down to a point where there was no need to count my chips.

Quote: TIMSPEED

It seems to me, that if I find a table that's full..when I walk up and a streak of bad luck happens, it empties out, and I'm again left alone...

My new plan is if I am playing by myself, then just leave asap as you see people starting to leave. This also brings up another issue. If I'm going to use this "full table" strategy, then that means I can't play the don'ts (if the don'ts succeed then the table would be empty - which is not what I want).

So at this point I still think craps is NOT a money maker because of the reasons presented and also the tipping rate is higher than other games (in my opinion). There's also too many of these ettiquette issues that make the game hard to play in a lax manner.

I guess the obvious is "of course, Craps is a loser" because every bet has a built-in house advantage. Some of them are small, but the house usually wins because they have a virtually unlimited bankroll and players have a limited one...

If the game is moving too fast, slow it down. If they look at you weird, tell them it is your money and you'll play at your speed, not theirs. "Hey, stick chick, I don't see YOUR money out there!!"--and, if they keep pushing you too fast on a nearly empty table, walk away. I often just let the dice sit while I make sure the other end of the table gets their bets in and those hands back. Yeah, the hands don't alter the game (wink) but I don't want them out there anyway!!

If you want to know how much money you have, place a $1 chip between $100 groups and you can count it pretty fast. I always know to within a few dollars what I have on the rail and what I have in play. That is until my wife snatches a handful of reds to get money for the slots!!

If it isn't fun, don't play!!! I feel relaxed at the table--it is the most comfortable game in the casino for me. I don't have to bet ANYTHING if I don't like the way things are going, I can skip certain shooters if they irritate me (the guys who toss dice so hard they hit the back wall and end up in front of the shooter bug me and SEEM TO not shoot "good" numbers very often), and I can talk to other folks if they want to talk... When the conditions aren't good, I walk...

I go with my entertainment dollars and I expect to be entertained. When it is not "fun", I do something else.

So...no casino game is a "winner" for us in the long run (the non-advantage players--maybe it will be a winner for advantage players or the inventors we have here!!). Pick one you enjoy to risk your money on...

If you're shooting, take your time. There's no rule saying that you have to lean over to shoot as soon as the stick gives you the dice. If you want to pause to cound your chips, DO IT! This is particularly true if you're the only one at the table. Go as slow as you want!

If you're having trouble keeping up when someone else is shooting, it's probably because you're too busy maintaining too many bets. Keep your bets simple, and you should always have enough time to do what you gotta do, including counting 10 reds to slip in a white, to make totaling the bankroll easier.


The one thing I hate that stickpeople do to speed up the game is when I'm the new shooter and they give me all five dice. Yeah, I realize that it doesn't matter, but I want to fiddle with all five momentarily. In the meantime, the stick is right there, ready to scoop up three as soon as I touch two....