Rcparker99
Joined: Jul 10, 2015
• Posts: 3
July 10th, 2015 at 5:50:04 PM permalink
In the Wizard's chart on how ofter the Dream card appears for Ugly Deuces it shows 59%. On the Dream Card machine instructions I play for Ugly Deuces it states: "The Dream Card feature is activated an average of 58% when enabled". Although this is only a minor discrepancy, is the Wizard's chart wrong? If so, what is the new game return percentage when the Dream Card is activated 58% of the time instead of 59%. I took a picture of the Dream Card instructions to verify the fact that the feature is activated only 58% of the time when enabled.
JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 2053
July 10th, 2015 at 7:26:24 PM permalink
Historically it has always been 59% for any Deuces Wild paytable. This frequency is still is in the help screen of the demo on VP.com (link).

What is the exact paytable?
Ibeatyouraces
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
• Posts: 10552
July 10th, 2015 at 7:57:45 PM permalink
I played some DDB Dream Card in Vegas. Four times I was dealt trips in the first four cards (8's, 3's, and 4's twice). Not once did I get the dream card. My best shot at anything was getting three to a royal in diamonds with a fourth diamond. I got the dream card which gave me a flush/four to a royal. I bricked all ten hands!
"And that's the bottom lineeeee, cuz Stone Cold said so!"
Rcparker99
Joined: Jul 10, 2015
• Posts: 3
July 11th, 2015 at 1:49:37 PM permalink
Admin JB, thank you for your reply. The pay table is the one for ugly deuces (1,2,3,4,4,9,15,25,200,800).
When I thought about how much the 58% vs. 59% the difference is 1/60 of the pay table return for ugly deuces (98.91% vs. the pay table for dream card ugly deuces (99.91). The difference being 1% divided by 60 or 0.0167%. This reduces the return on the Dream card game to 99.89%. This small reduction is not worth worrying about. Do you agree with my math?
(I rounded off 58/59 to 60 and dropped extra digits in the calculations)
tringlomane
Joined: Aug 25, 2012
• Posts: 5413
July 11th, 2015 at 10:17:01 PM permalink
Quote: Rcparker99

Admin JB, thank you for your reply. The pay table is the one for ugly deuces (1,2,3,4,4,9,15,25,200,800).
When I thought about how much the 58% vs. 59% the difference is 1/60 of the pay table return for ugly deuces (98.91% vs. the pay table for dream card ugly deuces (99.91). The difference being 1% divided by 60 or 0.0167%. This reduces the return on the Dream card game to 99.89%. This small reduction is not worth worrying about. Do you agree with my math?
(I rounded off 58/59 to 60 and dropped extra digits in the calculations)

No.

Think of it this way (also this may not be mathematically correct either, but I think it is a lot closer). If zero dream cards were awarded but you paid 10 credits per hand, then the return would be 98.91%/2 = 49.455%. This is the return without the Dream Card For 59% dream card probability it yields, 99.91%.

So the return in the "dream card" phase, represented by X, is roughly: (0.41)*(0.49455) + (0.59)*X = 0.9991
0.59X = 0.9991 - (0.41)*(0.49455)
0.59X = 0.7942845
X = 1.346244915

Now lowering the probability of a dream card from 59% to 58% then the return would become...

(0.42)*0.9891/2 + (0.58)*1.346244915 = 0.9885 = 98.85%...Lower than base paytable, hence why the Dream Card probability is usually 59%!!!

If you have a photo of this rule screen change that would be much appreciated. This is a significant difference.
JB
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
• Posts: 2053
July 12th, 2015 at 12:29:32 AM permalink
Tringlomane's approach is the correct one, though I think his numbers are slightly off somewhere.

0.9991 is the overall return
0.9891/2 = 0.49455 is the pure non-feature return
0.49455 x 0.41 = 0.202766 is the weighted non-feature return
0.9991 - 0.202766 = 0.796335 is the weighted feature return
0.796335 / 0.59 = 1.349719 is the pure feature return

0.49455 x 0.42 = 0.207711 is the new weighted non-feature return
1.349719 x 0.58 = 0.782837 is the new weighted feature return

0.207711 + 0.782837 = 0.990548 is the new overall return

This is only an estimate because of the precision used in the beginning (0.9991 and 0.9891).

I analyzed the game with a 58% feature trigger probability, and the actual return is 99.0575%.
RS

Joined: Feb 11, 2014
• Posts: 5223
July 12th, 2015 at 2:05:35 AM permalink
WTF is ugly deuces? Are you talking about the 15-9-4-4 paytable, AKA: Airport Deuces?

Trivia question. I'll give an internet cookie* if you can answer this correctly: Why is it common to refer to that paytable as airport deuces?

* Internet cookies are 100% worthless.**

"should of played 'Go Fish' today ya peasant" -typoontrav
djatc

Joined: Jan 15, 2013
• Posts: 3605
July 12th, 2015 at 2:10:42 AM permalink
Quote: RS

WTF is ugly deuces? Are you talking about the 15-9-4-4 paytable, AKA: Airport Deuces?

Trivia question. I'll give an internet cookie* if you can answer this correctly: Why is it common to refer to that paytable as airport deuces?

* Internet cookies are 100% worthless.**

Its kinda sad if I'm right: the deuces pay table was considered so horrible at one point it was only offered at the airport, land of the shitty pay backs on slots and VP.
They asked me how well I understood theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics. They said welcome aboard.
Rcparker99
Joined: Jul 10, 2015
• Posts: 3
July 12th, 2015 at 4:19:43 PM permalink
I have a photo shot of the dream card instructions showing the 58%, but I am having trouble posting the photo here. I can email it to anyone who will provide their email address. My email is rcparker99@aol.com.
beachbumbabs
Joined: May 21, 2013
• Posts: 8973
July 13th, 2015 at 8:48:54 AM permalink
rc,

This site doesn't host pictures, but it's easy to put them up.

Go to a photo site (I use tinypic.com because it's very simple, but you might be using something else in your life) and upload through them.