Term limits domestically and abroad

Quote: pacomartin

I wasn't specific enough. As long as you keep losing you can run as often as you want.

Yeah, but most people take the hint after losing twice in a row. Well, most people outisde the PRD.

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I did not know that people went district hopping in Mexico.

They do little else. I think you can serve aany number of terms in the same district, so long as they are not consecutive. The rules are complicated.

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In Oaxaca, which has a very strong old boy network, it seemed like they all lived in one tiny neighborhood. They took turns in various positions, including mayor, governor, senator, etc.

In Oaxaca some communities work on "usos y costumbres," which is legalese for "above the law because they're too remote and small to matter." Not in all the state, but in various parts of it. And when the PRI owned the state, it did as it wanted.

Quote: pacomartin

But that is the question. The amendment only says you cannot be elected president. It is different than someone who is not native born running for VP. That is unconstitutional, since they are not eligible to be president.

For the record, I think it is good to discuss the Constitution, here are the articles in question:


No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.


But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.


You bring up an interesting point on "elected." I am no legal scholar in an official sense, but FWIW I think it would not meet a legal challenge. Here is a simple reason why. There is another law that states succession thru the Cabinent in cases of emergency. Might have been in reaction to Al Haig's "I'm in charge" moment and revised after 9/11 to move the head of DHS up in priority. But if someone in that line is not eligible they are skipped over. Madeline Albright fell into this category not being natural born. So I would have to say it would not fly.

If someone did try it I also think the USA would have been so far gone it would not matter, that is the kind of thing they do in a Bananna Republic. Even there it can cause an uprising.

What's the payoff when you throw out someone decent because they are term limited?

The opposite case, of course, is getting of rid of people who are not doing a good job which is also a good thing.

Quote: rxwine

What's the payoff when you throw out someone decent because they are term limited? The opposite case, of course, is getting of rid of people who are not doing a good job which is also a good thing.

I am not sure that there is anything wrong with simply having someone face an election periodically. If they can be elected over and over again there doesn't seem to be a real problem. Some congressmen and Senators are so popular that no serious candidate even runs against them.

Recently, a large percentage of senators and congressmen have been voted out of office. The average length of service of Members of the Senate at the beginning of the 112th Congress (January 2011) was only 11.4 years (less than 2 terms). The average term has dropped for the last three congresses.

The average length of service of Members of the House at the beginning of the 112th Congress was 9.8 years (less than 5 terms).

Representative John Dingell (D-MI), the dean of the House, began serving on December 13, 1955.
Senator Daniel K. Inouye, the dean of the Senate, January 3, 1963 to present
Senator Patrick J. Leahy (D-VT) Jan 3, 1975 to present
Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT) Jan 3, 1977 to present
Senator Richard Lugar (R-IN) Jan 3, 1977 to present

Senator Joseph R. Biden, Jr. (D-DE) Jan 3, 1973 to Jan 15, 2009 (now Vice President)

Some people feel that Supreme court justices should be limited to an 18 year term, so that new one would be appointed every 2 years. That would give each president an opportunity to pick 2-4 judges.

I asked the question about America's involvement in other countries because it seemed to me that there were a lot of American politicians with pretty strong opinions about Arab leaders (most of whom had been in control for very long periods of time).

Quote: pacomartin

I am not sure that there is anything wrong with simply having someone face an election periodically.

I don't believe that's the definition of "term limits" though.

Quote: rxwine

I don't believe that's the definition of "term limits" though.

It is the opposite of term limits. I am saying that there is no real solid evidence in my mind that the lack of term limits may be hurting the country. Most senators are voted out after one or two terms. It ends up being a distribution, with a handful of senators serving for decades.