Mafia party game

Last night I played a party game called Mafia. You can read the rules by clicking the link I just left under "basic gameplay."

I don't have any particular question but wanted to open up a thread for discussion about it. Basic strategy for the townspeople would seem to involved keeping good track of voting history to try to find correlations of the other members, thinking that the mafia would not lynch their own. The Wikipedia link says that if the townspeople used optimal strategy then the optimal counter-strategy would be to randomize. It also goes onto say that if both sides use optimal strategy for large numbers of players the probability of the townspeople willing is m/sqr(p), where m=number of mafia & p=number of townspeople.

However, feel free to say whatever you wish about the game. It is a shame you need a fairly large number of people to play (I would think at least 8) as it is not easy organizing groups this large once you have a job and kids.

I love a good game of Mafia aka Werewolf. The trick is often to make sure you don't flood it with special roles (most people should be townsfolk). A version for 5-10 is The Resistance which also has the benefit of not being a knock out game.

My tactic is normally to try and get everyone talking early, and examining how they vote on the first round... the important thing about being a townsperson is that it doesn't matter if you die (you win as a team), as long as you help root out a Mafiaso.

You can run games by Forum (mafia net does it), but it's more fun in person, on line it requires a lot of reading and typing.

Towards the end of my high school days I played this game with my friends quite a bit, and rather enjoyed it. I seem to recall that we needed a minimum of 5 players, but I don't really remember. The only thing I remember well was becoming laughter-incontinent when myself and the same other person were the two mafia members for the third time in a row.

We played a bunch in highschool and early uni. Once played on a coach bus on a late night trip. Had about 20 people playing, using their overhead lights to remind us who was still alive.

I have never played this game. (The closest would be a drinking game in college involving winking that would just get silly after a few bottles.) Several of the game rules bother me.

The game is typically played with 7 civilians, and 2 mafioso. But the winning condition for mafioso is to outnumber the civilians. If there is only 1 mafioso left, then this is impossible. The best it could get down to is 1 civilian and the 1 remaining mafioso. Since neither of them would vote for themselves, the game could not end. The basic rules don't give instruction for how to handle such a stalemate. If the 2 mafioso manage to remain throughout the game, they can only win by having 1 other civilian. However, at the point where there are 4 players remaining (2 mafioso and 2 civilians), the 2 mafioso would seemingly have no choice but to both vote for one of the remaining civilians. They could each vote for separate civilians, but run the risk that those civilians might both vote for one of the mafioso, thus eliminating a mafioso, leaving 1 mafioso, and again putting the game into an unwinnable condition for the mafia.

The presence of the detective and the doctor would also seem to skew the winning conditions toward the civilians. Obviously, both character have strong reasons to not identify themselves or their abilities. For the doctor, the wisest choice would seem to be pointing at himself, assuming such thing is possible, and the basic rules do not indicate a prohibition of doing this. The doctor would thus never die, and it wouldn't be known that he himself was the doctor, as he could have been saved from death by another person. He would thus be able to remain the longest time in the game, voting to lynch whoever he sees fit.

I somewhat get the limitations on the detective. Should she discover the identity of a mafioso, she must try to get people to vote to lynch that person, without being able to reveal why she knows the person's identity.

Other than these issues, the game sounds fascinating, and I can really see a good group of people having a lot of fun with it.

The Mafia should win if they have an equal or greater number. The day phases should have an odd number of players, if possible. That means with 1 mafia, and 2 civilians, the Mafia tries to get one of the two civilians lynched, and kills the other during the night.

I've only ever played that the Doctor can protect one other person, but that's the ruleset we play. However, a self curing doctor would start to be suspicious to the townfolks... people who don't die when acting suspicious can be lynched... and the mafia should, if they expect a self-curing doctor, sow the seeds for a day-lynch.

The extra couple of roles add just enough confusion that it can make the Mafia's job easier, not harder. With 8 I like to play with 1 Mafia, 5 townsfolk and the last 2 roles taken at random from doctor, detective and Mafia. With 9 I think you need two Mafia, and the 2 from 3 would be detective, doctors, townsfolk. But there is endless variety to the game.

Always an odd number during the day, mafia win if their numbers ever equal or exceed townies, as explained by cesspit. Doctor can't protect himself.

Having a cop/detective is nice, we rarely played with a doctor. At some point the cop will reveal himself, possibly to be challenged by the mafia. Or, the mafia may make a gambit and claim to be the cop at some point, before the cop reveals first. Who is the real one? Delightful.

I love this game! Used to personally know the guy who invented it, as well as a lot of "early adopters".

Quote: konceptum

The game is typically played with 7 civilians, and 2 mafioso. But the winning condition for mafioso is to outnumber the civilians. If there is only 1 mafioso left, then this is impossible. The best it could get down to is 1 civilian and the 1 remaining mafioso. Since neither of them would vote for themselves, the game could not end.

In that case mafia wins - at "night", the last remaining civilian will be killed thus leaving only the mafia.
In the version I played BTW, the goal was not to outnumber civilians, but for either team to completely eliminate all members of the other one.

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However, at the point where there are 4 players remaining (2 mafioso and 2 civilians), the 2 mafioso would seemingly have no choice but to both vote for one of the remaining civilians.

It is not uncommon in this situation, that both mafioso vote for each other (or one of them sacrifices the other) in an attempt to demonstrate their "honesty" to the remaining players.

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The presence of the detective and the doctor would also seem to skew the winning conditions toward the civilians.

It does. And it is one of the later additions. There were no "special" players in the early version - just the two teams.
But with such setup it turns out that the mafia wins surprisingly often, especially when there is a large number of players initially. So, to give civilians a better fighting chance (and also to spice up the game - most people find it kinda boring to be a "plain" civilian character) these additional roles are introduced.

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For the doctor, the wisest choice would seem to be pointing at himself, assuming such thing is possible, and the basic rules do not indicate a prohibition of doing this.

This would only be the wisest choice if the doctor believed he had a good chance to get eliminated by mafia. Otherwise, it would be a waste, and remember, the doctor's (as well as any other player's) goal is not to "stay alive", but to eliminate the opposing team.

Quote: Wizard

It is a shame you need a fairly large number of people to play (I would think at least 8) as it is not easy organizing groups this large once you have a job and kids.

It is sometimes payed on online forums (usually though not always, in some fictional setting to make it more interesting). We could even try it here if there is enough interest ...

The Board Game Battlestar Galatica is effectively a super charged version of Mafia.

Also Shadows over Camelot" uses a hidden traitor mechanism, but not nearly as much fun for the guessing.

Quote: thecesspit

the important thing about being a townsperson is that it doesn't matter if you die (you win as a team), as long as you help root out a Mafiaso.

Where I played after you died you didn't have to "sleep" at night, so knew who everybody was. Is this not the correct way to play? It would be nice to still participate after death.

Quote: JB

The only thing I remember well was becoming laughter-incontinent when myself and the same other person were the two mafia members for the third time in a row.

When I was playing somebody tried to use the argument that somebody else wasn't mafia was he was the two previous games, and the odds against three in a row would be staggering. I was already dead at the time, and expected to keep quiet, but it was hard to bite my tongue at this remark.

Regarding the doctor, it doesn't seem to me to be much of a benefit to the townsfolk.

Regarding strategy, do the mafia tend to vote early or late? You might think some of them would vote late, to throw meaningless votes on other mafia if a townie already had a majority.

Quote: Wizard

Where I played after you died you didn't have to "sleep" at night, so knew who everybody was. Is this not the correct way to play? It would be nice to still participate after death.

Thats the right way. You just have to keep quiet. In larger games, or ones with a lot of talking, it can be a little dull. Or hard to stop from laughing.

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When I was playing somebody tried to use the argument that somebody else wasn't mafia was he was the two previous games, and the odds against three in a row would be staggering. I was already dead at the time, and expected to keep quiet, but it was hard to bite my tongue at this remark.

Regarding the doctor, it doesn't seem to me to be much of a benefit to the townsfolk.

The doctor is useful to try and protect a detective. If one exists or is suspected. It also throws a spanner in for the Mafia... 'what do you mean no-one died!'. Days are useful for the town, as it helps smell out a Mafia. The town can't win at night...

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Regarding strategy, do the mafia tend to vote early or late? You might think some of them would vote late, to throw meaningless votes on other mafia if a townie already had a majority.

Depending how you do your voting. I like to drive the first couple of days, whether I am town or Mafia. Get people talking, and see how they vote. You can tell from body language sometimes, or how they react to a vote. Some Mafia will pile on to a victim, especially if the first one was getting traction, then a second one suddenly appears to be voted on. The Townsfolk job is to root out Mafia. If they aren't doing that... and are protecting themselves... they smell like scummers.

Quote: weaselman

In that case mafia wins - at "night", the last remaining civilian will be killed thus leaving only the mafia.

If there is one civilian and one mafioso, the day cycle cannot end unless both persons agree to eliminate one of themselves. No "ties" were allowed in the original rules to the game.

Another person mentioned that there should always be an odd number of players, however, with the doctor character, that cannot ever be guaranteed.

The rule set that the mafia has to equal OR outnumber the civilians would make sense to me, however I was just going by the original rule set as presented in the Wikipedia page.

If a vote cannot be decided, the narrator can force the "day" period to end without elimination.

I have not read the wikipedia page, but it is hardly the final authority. There are many "home rules" that each group of people playing together would implement, that make sense to them. The one I mentioned above is, I think, one of the most common, as well as the oldest ones (I think, I remember it being in one of the very first games ever played).

Quote: Wizard

Regarding strategy, do the mafia tend to vote early or late? You might think some of them would vote late, to throw meaningless votes on other mafia if a townie already had a majority.

Especially with less experienced players, voting late is regarded as a very 'scummy' thing to do. In most situations, if you are late AND cast the final vote to lynch someone, I'm coming after you the next day.