If we're not alone in the universe, then where is everybody else?

Quote: odiousgambit

I agree, time travel gets abused as a deus ex machina device far too often.

The only way I can swallow time travel without nit-picking it apart, is to assume any changes in the "past" create a new parallel universe. This gives you license to mess with the past as much as you want, without risking your own existence. But then that loses you the option to go back to the past to change your life; you'd be changing the life of your counterpart in the parallel universe you're creating.

And of course there's a big hole in that assumption as well...

Anyway, I still love all the Back to the Future movies :)

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The only thing worse is using the "it was just a dream" device at the end. That's more likely to be used in TV, but it never fails to send me to the moon.

Agreed, with one exception. I did crack up when the "Newheart" finale ended with the whole series being a dream by Bob's character in another series :D

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As far as the various Planet of the Apes inconsistencies, that the Apes and Heston spoke the same language was awful.

Yup. Language is horribly handled in SF movies overall. I can buy instant universal translators, like in Star Trek, or having everyone be versed in multiple languages, like in Star Wars.

Curiously one movie that used the language barrier well as a major part of the plot was the very terrible "Stargate." I liked how Daniel turns out to already know the written form of the aliens' language (Egyptian hieroglyphs), but not the spoken form.

Quote: Nareed

So we're supposed to be very surprised at the end when Charlton Heston finds the Statue of Liberty and realizes he's on Earth in the distant future. But the whole thing fails when there are humans all over the place.

That didn't bother me as much as you. There is a theory that there are humans all over the galaxy and the clan here in earth is just an abandoned colony. So, maybe the astronauts in the original thought they came across another lost human colony -- until the end.

Quote: pacomartin

There was a small documentary released at the same time about a chimpanzee in the 1970's that was raised as a human and who developed a significant use of sign language.

There was a very touching scene in Rise where the main ape character befriended an orangutan, while in captivity, who also knew sign language. It would have been his first communication with another ape. The orangutan said (if you can use that word for signing) that he learned it in the circus.

Quote: Wizard

That didn't bother me as much as you. There is a theory that there are humans all over the galaxy and the clan here in earth is just an abandoned colony.

Did the movie make this point? If not, then you can't expect the audience to even consider it.

Quote: Nareed

Did the movie make this point? If not, then you can't expect the audience to even consider it.

Maybe the movie makers assumed it was common knowledge. In the nerdy circles I tend to hang around in, it is. It is a major theory to answer the question of "where is everybody else in the galaxy?"

Quote: Wizard

Maybe the movie makers assumed it was common knowledge. In the nerdy circles I tend to hang around in, it is.

I've heard of it, but I've never known it to be taken seriously.

Anyway, in SF you have to spell out all quirks, conventions and assumptions. Niven tells you of the tide that causes gravity-like effects on the integral trees in the Smoke Ring, the Terminator movies remind you of Skynet, etc. You can't just assume the audience knows, or even that they'll think of it if they know.

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It is a major theory to answer the question of "where is everybody else in the galaxy?"

While it makes sense to suppose there is someone else, all we know for certain is that we don't know if anyone else even exists.

Quote: Nareed

While it makes sense to suppose there is someone else, all we know for certain is that we don't know if anyone else even exists.

I'm not satisfied to end the discussion there. The book If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens... Where Is Everybody?, which I read recently, is all about this topic. With the billions of planets in the galaxy, even assuming a small fraction could develop life, and a small fraction of that could evolve into life intelligent enough to leave, then we would still have many thousands of such planets in the galaxy. Not only have they evidently not found us, but our radar telescopes can't detect any evidence of them. Something doesn't seem to add up. We shouldn't be alone, yet it seems we are.

Getting back to Rise, the audience can see as the story was taking place that a manned US spacecraft had entered the orbit of Mars and was ready to make a landing. That certainly ties into the first Apes movie, and would make for a good segue for a sequel.

Quote: Wizard

Not only have they evidently not found us, but our radar telescopes can't detect any evidence of them. Something doesn't seem to add up. We shouldn't be alone, yet it seems we are.

A couple thousand years ago almost nothing was known of the
outside world, apart from the little area where you lived. If you
were an American Indian, you knew nothing about China or
India or anyplace. You can't assume you're alone just because
you can't detect them.

Quote: EvenBob

You can't assume you're alone just because you can't detect them.

I never said that I assumed that.

Hm. Do I help you highjack your own thread?

Well, I don't thin the Admin would mind ;)

Quote: Wizard

With the billions of planets in the galaxy, even assuming a small fraction could develop life, and a small fraction of that could evolve into life intelligent enough to leave, then we would still have many thousands of such planets in the galaxy.

The Drake equation. Sure. The problem with it is the amount of unknowns in the variables.

One variable often overlooked is: how prevalent is the evolution of hands or other appendages useful in manipulating the world around?

Arthur C. Clarke once wrote a story about very intelligent beings with telepathic abilities, but without any means of manipulating objects or using tools. They had a culture, a very advanced knowledge of mathematics, but no technology at all; not even the most rudimentary form of agriculture.

But it all comes down to ignorance. We know about such things in our world. Hands and means of manipulation are rare, but widespread. Think humans, apes, monkeys, beavers, koalas, racoons for hands or close enough, and there's squid and octopus with tentacles. Now, not all of these species use their appendages constructively.

Still, some animals manage to build complex structures without good appendages or even much intelligence. Think of ant hills, bee hives and bird nests.

So suppose there are millions of intelligent species, but none of them can build any kind of technology. A galaxy teeming with the sentient equivalents of dolphins, cows, lions or crocodiles...

Quote: Nareed

So suppose there are millions of intelligent species, but none of them can build any kind of technology. A galaxy teeming with the sentient equivalents of dolphins, cows, lions or crocodiles...

Something I read once gave me pause. It went something like, "the thing to look for amongst life on other planets is the appearance of a dominant race of predatory apes. Keep an eye on them and come back every 10,000 years". There is something about "predatory ape" that hit me much more than "naked ape" or "killer ape" for some reason.