Are hybrids worth the extra cost?

When school gets out at Piggot Elementary hoards of parents drive there to pick up their kids, despite the fact that they all live within walking distance. I won't get into that. What bothers me is the about one car in ten will double park, park in a red zone, or in the school bus loading zone. Virtually 100% of the offending vehicles are SUVs. It never fails.

Quote: Wizard

This has been touched on before but has anybody ever done a study comparing the total waste and damage to the environment of electric vs. fossil fuel cars? I'm sure electric car drivers award themselves lots of green points for not consuming any gas. However, that electricity has to come from somewhere. Most of it probably came from burning coal -- and lots of it.

It depends upon where you live, because some states are more dependent upon coal than others. But even in the heart of coal country (West Virginia), coal is not the source of 100 percent of their electricity. West Virginia gets about 73 percent of electricity from coal; the U.S. average is 49.7 percent.

Using the national average, let's compare an all-electric Tesla Roadster to an all-gasoline Toyota Corolla. If the Corolla gets 31 miles to the gallon, then over 100 miles the Corolla will consume 3.23 gallons of gas, which in turn produces 63.11 pounds of carbon dioxide. (A gallon of gasoline produces 19.564 pounds of carbon dioxide.) For every 100 miles of travel, a Tesla Roadster needs to be recharged with 31 kilowatt hours of electricity. (Only about 70 percent of that charge goes toward creating motion; the rest is lost due to inefficiencies in the charging process.) Generating a kilowatt hour of electricity produces a national average of 1.55 pounds of carbon dioxide, which means the Tesla vehicle emits 48.05 pounds of CO2 per 100 miles. In states that use the most coal, such as Wyoming, North Dakota, and West Virginia, the CO2 emissions per kilowatt hour are higher—so much higher, in fact, that the Roadster may emit just a few pounds less carbon than the Corolla when all's said and done. On the other hand, if you're a motorist in the Pacific Northwest, where hydroelectric power reigns, going with an EV is an even cleaner choice.

But carbon dioxide isn't the only pollutant spewing from that Corolla's tailpipe. Gasoline combustion produces far more methane and nitrous oxide than coal combustion. (On the other hand, coal gives us sulfur dioxide which in turn gives us acid rain.)

Bottom line: it's a lot easier to control emissions at a few power plants than at millions of tailpipes.

http://www.slate.com/id/2179609/

Quote: Altut

Let's face it, electric cars are a joke and always will be. Why do you think most of them look so stupid? They may make it in some oddball countries but they'll never catch on here. Imagine plugging in for a charge overnight and only being able to go 200 miles the next day when your destination is 450 miles away. Imagine hitting the freeway with its 75mph speed limit and your little pregnant roller skate will only make 60. Then you got those ridiculous batteries that'll need replacing a lot more than your tires.

I've been at the bedside of four relatives in my life, and I always ask them what's one thing they'd have done differently if they had it to do over. They all gave me at least 2 answers, but each of them said they'd have driven a better car and not been so cheap. To me that meant we don't necessarily have to go out and buy Cadillacs or Mercedes, but there's no reason at all to hook up with one of those little pieces of junk hybrids either.

I'll keep my SUV thank you.

How many hybrids and electric cars have you driven? Face facts within the next few decades the majority of cars will have an electric motor most likely powered by a fuel cell. You do understand a hybrid and an electric car are different.

But if the biggest regret your relatives have had on their deathbed was they should have driven a better car I must say I hope that is my major regret at the end.

Quote: Wizard

When school gets out at Piggot Elementary hoards of parents drive there to pick up their kids, despite the fact that they all live within walking distance. I won't get into that. What bothers me is the about one car in ten will double park, park in a red zone, or in the school bus loading zone. Virtually 100% of the offending vehicles are SUVs. It never fails.

Where I live all the parents drive all to the bus stop and idle waiting for the bus. We are talking about a hundred yards. When I was a kid if I asked my dad to drive across the street to the bus stop so I didn't have to stand outside I would have received a very perplexed look.

Quote: Altut

I understand the difference, I've driven neither nor do I ever wish to. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius or any other hybrid, and I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near one of those dumb plug-ins. To me they all just seem like some kind of band-aid fix until a real idea comes forth. They seem like such a joke out there on the roads among all the big pickups and SUV's, and even among all the other real cars.

I don't know if that was each of their biggest regrets, but it must have had an importance to them. So I drive the best car I can afford and I will from now on.

No offense but you are commenting on things you have never used. If this vehicle is not right for you that doesn't mean it isn't right for someone else.

Gas mileage on a person by person is not a huge fluctuation but if you are a corporation with a tens of thousands cars on the road even saving 5mpg works out to a huge number.

My wife and I have a AWD vehicle and a Hybrid. Both have the same safety rating. But the AWD vehicle is mainly used as a second car or in the snow. But between the Subaru AWD and Toyota Hybrid the ride, pick up and drive-ability all go w the Toyota.

In most states the Hybrids are sold tax free so the higher price is not always a case. I drive a lot. Between 15 and 20 k a year so going from 25mph to 40 mph can make a difference.

Once you have decent batteries available, a 100% electric vehicle could be maintained by most owners with very little need for the usual industry infra structure. Oh, the brake shops and balancing would still be convenient for many, but most of the components could literally be replaced by someone popping in parts you could order, or you could do it yourself. At least for small commuter econo cars. That's why I believe the industry is more interested in building more complex hybrids or getting something even more complicated like fuel cells.

Quote: Altut

How long does it take to R&D a new generation or three of batteries for these things? If we really wanted to we could have done that 15 years ago. Something's stopping it from happening. Something will get us out of the funk we're in now, but it ain't going to be the current crop of hybrids or any fandangled plug-in.

What is stoppingt it is physics--electricity does not like to be stored. Far from "stopping it" if someone could invent a decent battery they would fight to get it to market. Like others have said here, electric cars are a total joke and will be for our lifetimes. Until all people have a garage (many if not most do not-ask anyone living in an apartment) to plug in, until none live in cold weather where batteries die quick (ask anyone who lives in the northeast), until no one lives in hot weather areas where battery life is short (ask anyone who lives in Phoenix or Vegas), until people stop wanting to make quick side trips, well it goes on and on. Why Obama is callign for 2MM of these clunkers to be on our roads is a mystery-maybe he owns stock in Tesla?

We will be on gasoline or some other liquid fuel for 100 or more years. It might not be gasoline, it might be methonal, etc. Best case for improvement might be if they could safely make a briefcase-size nuke to put under everyone's hood.

And, BTW, CO2 is NOT A POLLUTANT, so that argument in favor of electrics is moot.

Quote: Altut

I agree. I also don't want to see my son driving some sissy thing that hisses and squeals when it goes down the road. I want him to hear the roar of a big V8 as it gulps the fuel, and have enough room inside to spread out and do his girlfriend just as past generations of us have.

Jerry, is that you?

Quote: teddys

Jerry, is that you?

I was wondering that myself.

Quote: AZDuffman

We will be on gasoline or some other liquid fuel for 100 or more years. It might not be gasoline, it might be methonal, etc. Best case for improvement might be if they could safely make a briefcase-size nuke to put under everyone's hood.

Bio-diesel. I don't understand why it is not being pushed forward more aggressively. I mean, the technology already exists, and works way better than electrics or even hybrids. It is more economical, it is cheap, and it is renewable. Sounds like a miracle solution (which it isn't, of course, but still ... it's nothing like fantasizing about nuclear-powered Toyotas).