MGM Grand Detroit -- bad service

Was playing $25 a hand blackjack at MGM Grand Detroit the other day. (A moment of weakness -- I don't count). 0.34% house edge over the long run, so I expect to lose ~$6/hour. Playing for entertainment and comps. I like the atmosphere here much more than other Detroit casinos.

Was playing the spot next to third base, who was a young foreigner, friendly guy. The other players were mostly foreigners. I was up about $250, and was dealt 8-8 against the dealers 7. Third base got 9-7. I split, and drew an ace on one and a 3 on the other. Doubled and got a 7 for eighteen.

Third base seems to hesitate a bit, but taps the table and clearly motions for a hit. However, he made the hit move with an open palm, so it could be seen as a stay, but he clearly tapped the table. Dealer ignores him and turns over an 8 for fifteen, draws an ace, and then a 2 to make eighteen.

He starts to take and pay and I point out that third base motioned for a hit, not a stand. Third base was very quiet and did not seem to confident in his language skills, but he also said he had motioned for a hit. Nobody else at the table spoke up for him. Another player had 21 and would have won anyway; first base had a 17 so she would have pushed instead of lost. I was looking at a $50 swing on my double down.

Pit boss comes over and assesses the situation, and makes a call to the eye in the sky. Call comes back five minutes later, and the pit boss said, "you did stand." What?! I couldn't believe they treat their players like total morons. Of course he hit on the sixteen, as 98% of people would against a seven. Really poor ruling from MGM. I thought of making a bigger stink but instead colored up and left while making some disparaging remarks about the casino. Chintzy behavior from a casino making $60 million a month.

Given that the dealer drew the 8 and then drew two more cards before anyone said anything indicates to me that both you and the third baseman was quite happy with the 15 before the two cards were drawn. There must have been a couple of seconds before cards are drawn.

My point is that if there is a mistake before hit/stand, you gotta make your point before three cards are exposed or more cards are coming out of the shoe.

The pit made the call to the eye and did his due diligence. The eye determined that a stand motion was made, enough to the point where the decision could not be overruled based on what they saw. So, MGM sucked out on that one. But the pit could have just said "too bad so sad".

I'd give the casino a C-.

The sad thing is that most pit bosses/casino staff do not seem to understand that a little positive PR goes a long way in a situation like this.

The pit boss did the correct procedural thing by calling the eye in the sky and stating that they have informed him that 3rd base stood. However, had the pit boss said, it was a push, players would have been happier, would have stayed longer, and may have told their friend about the great experience. Then again, had everyone at the table been betting multiple blacks, I would believe that the pit boss would have done more to try to keep everyone happy.

I have never seen any ruling different than the one above at any Blackjack table...regardless of if it was a $5 or $100 minimum.

Sorry. I don't buy it.

The foreigner didn't speak up until you did? Then he wasn't unhappy. You attribute his actions to a lack of assertiveness and perhaps you are correct but it seems that hand signals exist for a purpose and its either make a clear and unambiguous signal or its take the consequences or its take it elsewhere.

On the playback it looked to surveillance as a stay. Maybe it really was one. I don't know I wasn't there but I'd put the burden on the player to give clear and unambiguous signals, not on the casino to take a public relations stance. Its more important the casino take a stance of yes, its a festive setting but this is serious business and you can't give a "sort of" signal. Language skills don't mean nuttin'. Its a question of motor skills. You have the motor skills to put your chips in that little circle? You have the motor skills to execute the proper hand signals in a clear manner? Thats all she wrote.

Should our dealer have questioned you or paused or stood there singing Dixie? He is supposed to be adding up the hands as he goes along, he is supposed to be going by the hand signals that he sees. Its automatic for him. It should be automatic for the players too. They give a proper and utterly unambiguous signal and they take the consequences.

Yeah, you need to speak up right away. I was @ Hard Rock LV a few years ago at a $5 BJ table (slow weekday afternoon) and got a 13 vs a 6 upcard. Very nice dealer, but was distracted when I motioned to stand, thought I motioned to hit, and dealt me a 10 to bust. I immediately pointed it out to her, before she even started on the next player. At first she was like "Well I thought you motioned a hit", looked at what I had and she had, and realized she had to have goofed. Pit boss was very firm, but reasonable. After giving me a warning on my hand signals, he restored my bet (I think it was $15), and said we all now know the next card in the shoe is a 10. We all stood, dealer had a 16, took the 10 and busted out. He made it clear, though, the next time it happened he wasn't giving me the bet back.

I would have informed him anytime I gave a hand signal, I expected it to be executed properly. And if he had a problem with that, we could let gaming handle it right now !

Once the last player accepted the stand action - basically indicating that it was the action he wanted, and numerous cards were dealt afterwards, any late protest is deemed suspicious. Certainly, the if the dealer busted instead of making his hand, the very same players would have taken the money and said "all is fine!"

Once surveillance makes a decision on the play, the discussion is pretty much over and done with.
sounds like sour grapes.

Quote: Paigowdan

Once surveillance makes a decision on the play, the discussion is pretty much over and done with. sounds like sour grapes.

Yes. That hitting the table but with an open palm... surveillance has video only, no audio. They don't hear the table thump and they don't look at it from the side, just from overhead. Hand gestures are to be clear and unambiguous. No ambiguous signals followed a few cards later by some squabbling.

When I play I always make large hand signals, a clear scoop motion towards myself for a hit, and several waves almost like a stop so there is never any misunderstanding. What I dislike is when a player decides to stand and the dealer says no you should hit or whatever. This happened in Lake Tahoe at the lake side inn and I told the dealer if the player wanted to do blah he should be allowed to do blah. Of course what the dealer talked the player into doing ended up making me lose, but either way dealers should respect players wishes.