Gary Loveman talks about bad press

Gary Loveman says that gambling is like Mcdonald's. It could be bad for you but adults should have the right to make their own choice. He wants to see it legal everywhere, and he urges gambling executives to try and change the perception.

Politicians often limit the growth of gaming because of the misconceptions that casino companies prey on the poor, breed crime, foster addiction and contribute to cultural deterioration.

The gaming industry is a great and legitimate business;

It employs countless thousands;

It provides great recreation to countless millions, even though a minority have addictions issues.

I'd say it's safer than the liquor industry.

Quote: pacomartin

Gary Loveman says that gambling is like Mcdonald's. It could be bad for you but adults should have the right to make their own choice. He wants to see it legal everywhere, and he urges gambling executives to try and change the perception.

Politicians often limit the growth of gaming because of the misconceptions that casino companies prey on the poor, breed crime, foster addiction and contribute to cultural deterioration.

I would be more inclined to listen to Gutboy Barrelhouse if his company's goal over the last decade hadn't been to create a gambling monopoly, with the express purpose of destroying decent games, wiping out comps, jacking up the price of anything and everything, and in general bending the gambling public over.

As things stand, though, his protestations seem a wee bit hypocritical. Actually, they seem a whole big honkin' lot hypocritical.

Boo hoo. Companies will try to corner a market... call it monopoly if you will but it's the nature of business, and good business at that in most cases. I don't know what "decent" games have been "destroyed"; please explain. If you're talking about the concept of a casino no longer having a bank (or banks) of VP machines with in excess of 100% payback and instead having nothing higher than 99.4% (or some such number), the question I'd ask you is, "Why should they?". So the comps are drying up... the economy is tight and businesses all over are clamping down on customer perks. What makes anyone believe they should be entitled to "freebies"? Perhaps we all pine for the way things were in the good old days (even if those days were only 3 years ago) but I'd say that sentiment very likely applies to most things today. If the price of something is jacked up, go to the competition. No competition? Oh well, it's a CASINO for goodness sake; go fly a kite... it's free. The gaming public has the same odds on 00 roulette, craps, 3:2 BJ and most other games as they always have, not to mention having a wide assortment of new games that they wouldn't have seen a decade ago. And guess what... they're all there to separate you from your hard earned money, regardless of the name on the side of the building. Vegas is a place to gamble, blow off steam, relax, live out a fantasy, see the sights and whatever else may be your thing. AC is similar. Nowadays you don't even have to leave your hotel/casino and you can find things to do to fill your days. Harrah's may not be everyone's favourite but they throw a decent party and provide pretty much the same value as any other gaming company.

Quote: TheNightfly

Boo hoo. Companies will try to corner a market... call it monopoly if you will but it's the nature of business, and good business at that in most cases. I don't know what "decent" games have been "destroyed"; please explain. If you're talking about the concept of a casino no longer having a bank (or banks) of VP machines with in excess of 100% payback and instead having nothing higher than 99.4% (or some such number), the question I'd ask you is, "Why should they?".

Re "boo hoo"--trying to corner a market is only a sensible strategy if it is, in fact, possible to do so. All that Loveman managed to do was get his company in debt $31 billion, and bring it to the brink of bankruptcy. Harrah's devoured some properties--particularly in St. Louis and New Orleans--that gave it severe indigestion; they paid far too much for them. A rational company wouldn't have done that, but for ten years, they've been on an acquisition rampage, simply for acquisition's sake.

Yes, Harrah's has destroyed VP, but that's not the only place where they've tightened everything up---$5 rake on poker (the highest in Vegas), drastically tightened slots, 6:5 blackjack...the list goes on and on. Is this good business? Is it good business to increase the price and lower the quality of your product? Why should they offer good games? Because until Loveman's dream of total planetary domination is realized, there will be competition. And to answer your question another way, in the Vegas market in particular, the most successful casinos have been the ones that offered the best games and treated their customers well. Harrah's assumes that people will go to Harrah's because it's Harrah's, good games be damned.

So the comps are drying up... the economy is tight and businesses all over are clamping down on customer perks. What makes anyone believe they should be entitled to "freebies"?

Uhhhhh... comps aren't "freebies". They are rebates on losses (theoretical losses).

Harrah's may not be everyone's favourite but they throw a decent party and provide pretty much the same value as any other gaming company.

Actually, they provide LESS value than just about any other gaming company. A weekend of staying and gambling at a Harrah's property will cost you more than a similar weekend spent at almost any other casino. That's the bottom line.

Quote: mkl654321

Actually, they provide LESS value than just about any other gaming company. A weekend of staying and gambling at a Harrah's property will cost you more than a similar weekend spent at almost any other casino. That's the bottom line.

If that is the bottom line, please show me evidence of this bottom line. What costs more and where will it cost less... specifically please. If you must spout off about what you know, it would be nice to see what it is that you know. As you are an educator, this should be right up your alley.

Quote: pacomartin

Politicians often limit the growth of gaming because of the misconceptions that casino companies prey on the poor, breed crime, foster addiction and contribute to cultural deterioration.

Loveman does have a point. This is a big misconception. In fact, they prey on both the rich and the poor. They are an equal opportunity destroyer of wealth.

Hear that giant sucking sound? That's the big Harrah's vacuum as it sucks the money right out of the local economy in the name of jobs and prosperity. The locals don't stand a chance, and unless you are a destination resort and can support your casino with outside money, you are destined to spirial right into the toilet.

Misconceptions, my ass. Loveman ought to be ashamed to even go out into public.

Quote: TheNightfly

If that is the bottom line, please show me evidence of this bottom line. What costs more and where will it cost less... specifically please. If you must spout off about what you know, it would be nice to see what it is that you know. As you are an educator, this should be right up your alley.

Room rates at Harrah's properties are among the highest on the Strip. I realize that the IP is an exception.

The prices charged at Harrah's restaurants are very high. The quality has been gradually deteriorating for some time now.

Most of all, the gambling at Harrah's properties is the worst in Vegas, with 6:5 blackjack at every property, as well as $5 poker rake, terrible pay schedules on video poker, low slot returns, and sky-high table minimums.

I'm not going to debate this further with you, because you are obviously disinclined to believe anything I might say. I could provide you with a few "specifics", such as the current room rate at Paris or the cost of a club sandwich at Caesar's, but what would be the point? You can find all that out easily enough for yourself.

Quote: scotty81

Quote: pacomartin

Politicians often limit the growth of gaming because of the misconceptions that casino companies prey on the poor, breed crime, foster addiction and contribute to cultural deterioration.

Loveman does have a point. This is a big misconception. In fact, they prey on both the rich and the poor. They are an equal opportunity destroyer of wealth.

Hear that giant sucking sound? That's the big Harrah's vacuum as it sucks the money right out of the local economy in the name of jobs and prosperity. The locals don't stand a chance, and unless you are a destination resort and can support your casino with outside money, you are destined to spirial right into the toilet.

Misconceptions, my ass. Loveman ought to be ashamed to even go out into public.

I'm confused - are you decrying gambling in general, or Harrah's specifically?

Casinos are in the entertainment industry, and thats what they do: provide entertainment. Harrah's no more "vacuums" money out of the local economy than AMC does by charging me ten bucks to watch a movie. Yes, a movie is cheaper, but a movie is cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment too, like a cruise.

Plus, Ameristar has cheap beer.

Quote: ElectricDreams

I'm confused - are you decrying gambling in general, or Harrah's specifically?

Casinos are in the entertainment industry, and thats what they do: provide entertainment. Harrah's no more "vacuums" money out of the local economy than AMC does by charging me ten bucks to watch a movie. Yes, a movie is cheaper, but a movie is cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment too, like a cruise.

Plus, Ameristar has cheap beer.

I do believe he was decrying, as you put it, Harrah's specifically.

The movie analogy would be most appropriate if Harrah's bought every movie theater in town, added more neon on the marquees, and reopened as "HARRAH'S MOVIE EXPERIENCE!!!", charging $25 for admission, and $12 for a bucket of popcorn. Stale popcorn.

Quote: pacomartin

I'm confused - are you decrying gambling in general, or Harrah's specifically?

Casinos are in the entertainment industry, and thats what they do: provide entertainment. Harrah's no more "vacuums" money out of the local economy than AMC does by charging me ten bucks to watch a movie. Yes, a movie is cheaper, but a movie is cheaper than a lot of other forms of entertainment too, like a cruise.

Plus, Ameristar has cheap beer.

I'm pretty much decrying gambling in general, but Harrah's is at the top of the list.

Entertainment is great. But I don't classify predatory gaming practices as entertainment. When you peel away all of the veneer, gambling caters to one of the most basic of human vices. A destination resort like Las Vegas, IMO, is different. People can choose to go there, and they can (within reason) limit their exposure. But when a casino is built in your back yard, and people are encouaged to go cash their employment & welfare checks, the line is crossed. Losing your rent money is a lot different than going to a movie.

Once the novelty wears off, and the only sustainable market are the local degenerate gamblers, bad things happen.

And, make no mistake: Casinos are NOT in the entertainment business. They are in the gambling business. Their business is taking your money, and providing nothing of value back to you. Period.

Quote: mkl654321

I do believe he was decrying, as you put it, Harrah's specifically.

The movie analogy would be most appropriate if Harrah's bought every movie theater in town, added more neon on the marquees, and reopened as "HARRAH'S MOVIE EXPERIENCE!!!", charging $25 for admission, and $12 for a bucket of popcorn. Stale popcorn.

Yeah, I agree on that point; I usually avoid the Harrah's in town because I can get better comps elsewhere.

Quote: scotty81

And, make no mistake: Casinos are NOT in the entertainment business. They are in the gambling business. Their business is taking your money, and providing nothing of value back to you. Period.

Okay, there could probably be made an entire separate thread on this, but I guess that is where we disagree: yes, casinos are primarily out to "take your money", but what company isn't?

That's capitalism. You provide something for a price. Casinos provide entertainment, the price is the house edge.

Yes, gambling has the chance to be abused, but so does alcohol; in fact, I would wager that alcohol has ruined just as many lives as gambling has. Should we ban alcohol too? Go back to the good ol' Prohibition days?

Quote: scotty81

And, make no mistake: Casinos are NOT in the entertainment business. They are in the gambling business. Their business is taking your money, and providing nothing of value back to you. Period.

They provide nothing of value?

It seems that whenever I win, I take home some very valuable dead presidents.

I think providing the opportunity to do that is very valuable too.