Guns, concealed carry, and home defense
I wonder if the Wizard has had his permit long enough to start pondering the pain-in-the-ass factor?
Quote: QuadDeucesI cannot personally see why anyone would buy an XD over a Glock.
because a lot of people want to carry condition 1...and don't fee comfortable carrying condition 1 with no safety...and NO the Glock "safe action trigger" is not a safety.... this is why so many Glock owners carry condition 3, because they don't feel comfortable in condition 1....I have carried Glocks condition 1 its no big deal to me...but to a lot of people it is.....But I used to carry 1911's condition 1 with no worries....Hell I know people who carry 1911's in condition ZERO which I think is CRAZY and irresponsible IMO....This is why Springfield XD's and especially Smith & Wesson M&P's are cutting into Glocks sales so much.....Because it gives you ability to carry condition 1 with a striker fires pistol WITH a safety...which Glock doesn't...Like I said to me its no big deal...Carrying condition 1 with no safety is no biggie to me BUT to a lot of people it is a big deal...and for them a S&W M&P and Springfield XD are much better choices for a polymer striker fired pistol...
Quote: vert1276because a lot of people want to carry condition 1...and don't fee comfortable carrying condition 1 with no safety...and NO the Glock "safe action trigger" is not a safety.... this is why so many Glock owners carry condition 3, because they don't feel comfortable in condition 1
Add me to that list. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the lack of safety on a Glock, and even with the AMT, I'll only do CC2. Of course, I'm not ever really in a position to NEED it, since mine are mostly for bear which aren't exactly stealthy or stalkers. Something to work on, though.
Another thread made me think to ask a question. What does a "concealed carry permit" actually mean in your state? I saw a post in another thread that lead me to believe that in other states, it ALLOWS you to carry concealed as opposed to what I'm guessing is a normal carry permit to carry exposed. However, I'm almost positive that in NY you cannot under any circumstances carry exposed, regardless of what license you have (exception for hunting season). I'm pretty sure here you have only a "carry concealed with purpose" (actively hunting or target shooting) and "carry concealed unrestricted" (can carry whenever). Do other states allow exposed carry?
Quote: FaceAdd me to that list. I'm still not 100% comfortable with the lack of safety on a Glock, and even with the AMT, I'll only do CC2. Of course, I'm not ever really in a position to NEED it, since mine are mostly for bear which aren't exactly stealthy or stalkers. Something to work on, though.
Another thread made me think to ask a question. What does a "concealed carry permit" actually mean in your state? I saw a post in another thread that lead me to believe that in other states, it ALLOWS you to carry concealed as opposed to what I'm guessing is a normal carry permit to carry exposed. However, I'm almost positive that in NY you cannot under any circumstances carry exposed, regardless of what license you have (exception for hunting season). I'm pretty sure here you have only a "carry concealed with purpose" (actively hunting or target shooting) and "carry concealed unrestricted" (can carry whenever). Do other states allow exposed carry?
throw the northeast and NY right out the window when comparing laws with other states about guns....In almost all states a CCW or CPL(conceal carry) allows you to conceal a weapon, in most cases that's a gun but it cane be a knife as well...you need this license to CONCEAL the weapon because in most states you can "open carry" with no permit/license...in most states you can "open carry" and this requires NO licensing or permits...but if you want to "conceal" the weapon you need a permit....there is a huge 'open carry" movement going on in the gun community right now because of California recently losing their rights to open carry.....Since very few people were open carrying in California the state thought it would be able to take that right away and no one would care..... but it backfired and now many people who used to conceal are open carrying in other states...under the theory of "if we don't use the right we will lose the right like they did in California"....if you go to opencarry.org you can see what states allow open carry
Quote: vert1276throw the northeast and NY right out the window when comparing laws with other states about guns....In almost all states a CCW or CPL(conceal carry) allows you to conceal a weapon, in most cases that's a gun but it cane be a knife as well...you need this license to CONCEAL the weapon because in most states you can "open carry" with no permit/license...in most states you can "open carry" and this requires NO licensing or permits...but if you want to "conceal" the weapon you need a permit....there is a huge 'open carry" movement going on in the gun community right now because of California recently losing their rights to open carry.....Since very few people were open carrying in California the state thought it would be able to take that right away and no one would care..... but it backfired and now many people who used to conceal are open carrying in other states...under the theory of "if we don't use the right we will lose the right like they did in California"....if you go to opencarry.org you can see what states allow open carry
Yeah this is correct for Washington state. Anyone can openly carry a gun, but to conceal it you need the license. Also Washington is one of the many states that (stupidly, IMO) requires absolutely NO training to get a CPL. They do a background check to make sure you haven't violated any gun laws, and they take your fingerprints, then you get the license and are on your way. It's entirely possible to get the license without even touching a handgun in your life, let alone being proficient with one.
1. Can anyone point to a law, in particular in Nevada, that specifically allows or prohibits openly carrying a weapon?
2. If is is allowed, even without a permit, why don't it ever seem to happen? There was a thread earlier about somebody getting into a confrontation with the LVPD for just wearing an empty holster.
Quote: EvenBobBecause the cops don't like it.
Bob: it appears that your preference for short lines in posts just scuttled your attempt to post a link. You've got a carriage return or something inside your link, so it doesn't work. Just to help out, I think this modified link should work.
I wish there was an easier way to find info, it seems such a wild goose chase. I remember when I got my CCW, I had no idea what it really was. The paper it came with just said congratz, and that was about it. I know a lot of guys on the force for just about every department, and even after asking Local, State, Sheriffs and even Investigators, it took one of them to call someone who knew someone who had contacts with someone who knew one of the higher ups in the pistol permit clerks office to let me know mine was unrestricted. Crazy stuff.
Quote: WizardI said, it looks like incorrectly, on my radio show last week that there simply is no license to carry an unconcealed weapon, because it just isn't allowed by the general public. Based on the last few posts, this would seem in error. Before I have to eat crow on the radio, I have two questions:
1. Can anyone point to a law, in particular in Nevada, that specifically allows or prohibits openly carrying a weapon?
2. If is is allowed, even without a permit, why don't it ever seem to happen? There was a thread earlier about somebody getting into a confrontation with the LVPD for just wearing an empty holster.
I hate to link wiki but here is a link...this will pretty much tell you all you need to know about open carry. In about 30 states you need no permit to carry a firearm openly(not attempting to conceal)....In some of those 30 states(in the link the orange sates) open carry is legal but a pain in the ass...because each jurisdiction has its own laws on where you can and can not open carry, but some are better than others...For example you might be able to open carry in a city park but go one city over and you might no be able too....The states in Yellow(in the link) you can open carry anywhere(notice Nevada is on this list)....you don't need a permit you just cant conceal your firearm....
The reason many don't so this.....Although its completely legal you will be hassled by the cops....they wont arrest you but you will be questioned since it will normally cause a public disturbance as 50 people call the police saying "there is a guy walking around with a gun"....the main reason no one does it is because most of us who carry like the idea of the criminal NOT KNOWING we have a gun on us.....Although the mentality of the "open carry community" is that open carry prevents crime because the criminal sees you have a gun and then doesn't commit the crime....
I ran into a neighbor since my last post who is a U.S. magistrate judge here in Las Vegas. I asked him the question at hand, in the presence of his wife who I also believe to be a lawyer. He said that as far as he knew there was no law forbidding the general public from openly carrying a firearm. His wife agreed.
I cringe when Hollywood has someone put a Glock in their waistband.
If the gun has to come out of the holster, I want it to go bang when the trigger is pressed. Glocks do that. The more things you add to a gun to keep it from going bang when the trigger is pressed, the more things there are to keep the gun from going bang when the trigger is pressed.
Quote: QuadDeucesI cringe when Hollywood has someone put a Glock in their waistband.
For felons though, that probably is one of the common methods of carrying a gun. You figure they wouldn't even want a holster if they have to ditch the gun at some point. Being as cops would probably find a empty holster somewhat suspicious.
The state supreme court finally came around to recognizing the second half of "keep and bear arms" clause. Police departments had some policy and procedure adjustments to make; open carry proponents (enthusiasts?) have been awarded damages after being arrested simply for exercising their 2nd amendment rights. While an officer can talk to someone carrying openly, that person is under no obligation to explain or identify himself.
But as a practical matter, open carry seems to me a bit of a hassle in an urban or suburban environment. Malls, stores, bars, and public buildings are free to bar weapons from their property, and often do so. You can spend a lot of time taking it off and putting it back on again. Not to mention some folks may take an interest in what you just locked in your trunk before going shopping.
those kids are lucky to be alive
that old guy was still shooting at them after they left
Quote: WongBoinstant justice...
those kids are lucky to be alive
that old guy was still shooting at them after they left
He probably had 17 in his clip, just getting his
money's worth.
Quote: buzzpaff" Too bad I can't carry at work, the walk downtown at 4am is a bit creepy with all the bums and thugs I have to pass when going to the place I park about a block away. "
Had similar situation in downtown Baltimore many years ago. Martial arts guy at work had me carry rolled up sports section of newspaper. Rolled tight enough to act like a stick and aim for the adam's apple. Never had to, thank God.
This is why I also carry a knife. I always at least have my knife when I am somewhere that can't carry. As long as you're within about 20ft (if they have a gun) of an attacker you should be able to hold your own. I can post some links on the matter later for those that may be interested.
you've never heard the expression "bringing a knife to a gunfight"..
i don't think it is a bad idea to have a knife,
but i wouldn't want to go up against a gun with one.
Quote: WongBoyou have got to be kidding,
you've never heard the expression "bringing a knife to a gunfight"..
i don't think it is a bad idea to have a knife,
but i wouldn't want to go up against a gun with one.
Trust me, I'd rather have my gun. But I keep a knife with me in case there ever would be a need for it. If I was certain I would be shot (or anything else life threatening) without putting up a fight, I'd definitely have to go for it. I'd rather have the option in the rare case when I would need it. Same goes for carrying my gun. I never would want to use it, but if it's me or him... its gonna be him. It's always reassuring to have the option in case you need it, and in most cases, I would probably choose not to use it. It all depends on the situation that you're in.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/18/florida-customer-shoots-suspects-during-internet-cafe-robbery/
Quote: EvenBobI have a friend in his 70's who carries a .22 mini revolver just like this one. He carries it his pants pocket and it can't go off because its a revolver.
I am clearly not a gun owner. But looking up a mini-revolver .22 caliber it is $186 and weights 4.5 oz. Suppose I have one or two of these on my person with the proper permit.
The objection to this gun, is that while it is often lethal, it has no "stopping power", so that the guy can still carry out his assault. He may die of his wounds, but you might also.
Is there some legal advantage to owning this type of gun versus a higher caliber? My question is if an assailant starts punching at your head, and if he later is determined to be unarmed and possibly crazy (something you are not sure of at the time). If you shoot him with a 22 caliber, do you fare better in the police investigation than if you shot him with a more powerful pistol? Since the bullet has very little stopping power, what happens if you shoot him twice?
In general, do you think you are better off with a tiny pistol, or one of the umbrellas that are designed for self defense.
Quote: pacomartinI am clearly not a gun owner. But looking up a mini-revolver .22 caliber it is $186 and weights 4.5 oz. Suppose I have one or two of these on my person with the proper permit.
The objection to this gun, is that while it is often lethal, it has no "stopping power", so that the guy can still carry out his assault. He may die of his wounds, but you might also.
Is there some legal advantage to owning this type of gun versus a higher caliber? My question is if an assailant starts punching at your head, and if he later is determined to be unarmed and possibly crazy (something you are not sure of at the time). If you shoot him with a 22 caliber, do you fare better in the police investigation than if you shot him with a more powerful pistol? Since the bullet has very little stopping power, what happens if you shoot him twice?
In general, do you think you are better off with a tiny pistol, or one of the umbrellas that are designed for self defense.
If you talk to a true "gun nut", and I mean a put-all-the-guys-here-to-shame type gun nut, you'll get all sorts of info about penetration, expansion rates, bullet composition, etc concerning "stopping power". A more general use of the term is simply "what does it take to make the bad thing stop"? I've heard opinions that the .22 is one of the most dangerous calibers there is. As an example, if during a struggle you fire a .45 and hit an assailant in the shoulder, his shoulder will most likely explode. Do the same thing with a .22, and it lacks the mass to punch through things. When it hits a dense bone, it's liable to ricochet inside the person, perhaps into the heart, lung, or neck.
The biggest factors in stopping power are the bullets surface area and speed. Given the same mass, a sleek, pointed rifle round is likely to punch right through a person, transfering little energy to his insides. A big, fat .45, on the other hand, is going to transfer much, much more. Also, given the exact same round, a high powered charge likewise may punch through a body and waste much of it's energy, while a half charge moves slower, giving time for the bullet to mushroom and pull/tear flesh as it passes through. If stopping power is what you want, go big and go slow. Shotgun slug comes to mind.
Given the above, a .22 has very little stopping power. If your assailant is suffering from psychosis, is on meth, or is just really, really scared, you could shoot him and he might not even notice. Fortunately, many encounters are by normal, albeit desperate, people, and will react much like the thugs in EvenBob's video. Just seeing a gun causes them to flee, even though they themselves have one. I'd have to think this wouldn't be true with an umbrella. While it might save you possible jail time if you're succesful in protecting yourself in hand-to-hand combat, there's just too many situations where it'll be useless (like armed combat). I'll take the .22 every time. (In fact, my secondary carry weapon is a .22mag)
The legal aspect is tough, but I wouldn't look at it as you are. Whether your carrying a pitiful .22short Derringer that barely kills a coon even with it pressed to their head, or a .500 Taurus that'll kill nearly every land animal on the planet, if a situation escalates to the point you need to shoot, you shoot to kill. Shooting is a last ditch effort to save your life. You shoot and don't stop unless it's unsafe (crowded mall), or the threat has passed (they're incapacited or flee). It's you or them, and any thoughts other than that (including worry about jail) could get you killed.
My suggestion to those than have guns, even if it's not a pistol and you have no license, just a long gun in a closet at home, is to know your state's laws. In Texas, for example, you can shoot for a great number of reasons, including threats to personal property. In NY,...well, let's just say I'm terrified of shooting anyone here.
He was a young man in the Godfather era, mid 50's. He
says all the wiseguys he knew carried hammerless .22's,
and usually more than one. They were small, cheap, light,
you could carry 3 of them and nobody would know it. All
they were concerned about was close work, no marksmanship.
Stick in somebodies face, in their gut, against their kneecap.
And very quiet, just a popping noise. Nobody wore shoulder
holsters and carried .45's, thats all movie crap.
The .22's had 5 shots. Like the arms dealer in Breaking Bad
says, if you can't get it done in 5 shots, you're probably dead
anyway. Its just spray and pray after that. The stats still
say more people are killed by .22's every year than any other
gun. Hell, the original James Bond in the books carried a .25
Beretta, which is basically a .22...
And correct me if I'm wrong, because I may be.
Quote: rxwineFrom what I understand, it's not just the small caliber, but a small gun is harder to control for accuracy. So, you're more likely to miss your target at the same range -- even fairly short distances (across rooms).
And correct me if I'm wrong, because I may be.
Yeah. The smaller the barrel, the worse the accuracy. Shotguns are short range weapons, but I've killed deer at 120yds because I have a very long bird barrel on it. Barrel length is everything. Also, a VERY small gun, like the little Derringer type palm pistols EB linked, are ridiculously hard to manipulate for a man with large hands like myself. But then again, these guns aren't used to shoot at 40yds. They're up in your face weapons, a couple feet or so.
But keep in mind, it's the BARREL than makes the difference, not the caliber. My Viper 510 rifle shoots .22, and is plenty accurate at 70yds. My .17 reaches out even further. And my .22mag AMT, a handgun, is every bit as accurate as my Glock. Full size frame, 4" barrel, it's good to go.
Quote: FaceBut keep in mind, it's the BARREL than makes the difference, not the caliber.
Elementary physics. Rather simple, too. The longer the barrel, the more time the propellant pushes the bullet and the higher the muzzle velocity (ie the faster the bullet). Also, in rifled guns, the the bullet acquires more spin, which increases stability. So longer range and better accuracy.
Quote: NareedElementary physics. Rather simple, too. The longer the barrel, the more time the propellant pushes the bullet and the higher the muzzle velocity (ie the faster the bullet). Also, in rifled guns, the the bullet acquires more spin, which increases stability. So longer range and better accuracy.
Indeed =) But keep in mind, ALL modern guns are now rifled, not just "rifles". From my weenie .22 all the way up to my massive .44 mag and everything in between, they're all rifled. The only gun I've ever owned that wasn't was my grandpa's Derringer that my ex threw out. Of course, it was made at the turn of the century, and the barrel was barely 2", if that, and they're made to shoot something an arm's length away.
This is important to know for the novice gun owner, especially if you buy used. Many people still ream the hell out of barrel with wire brushes and chemical solvents, which isn't needed nowadays unless you're shooting crap Russian ammo. As a result, they slowly file away the rifling. My Pops recently bought a .17 that had this treatment, and the barrel was worn nearly smooth. As a result, all the rounds "keyholed", that is, they were punching through the paper on their side. They just tumbled throught the air, which eradicates accuracy. Ever throw a whiffle ball? That what keyhole bullets do. Waver up, down, and all around, no telling what you're going to hit.
For the advanced gun owner, all barrels have a twist rate. A 1:14, for example, means in 14" the round spins one revolution. If you're in to customizing guns, you can swap barrels to change performance. In general, the longer the round, the more twist you need. The more twist you have, the more stable the shot. Keep in mind that each manufacturer will respond differently no matter what you shoot. The exact same grain 9mm will shoot differently depending on if it's Winchester, S&W, Remington, etc who made it. Test your gun with multiple makes and see which fits your piece best.
Quote: NareedElementary physics. Rather simple, too. The longer the barrel, the more time the propellant pushes the bullet and the higher the muzzle velocity (ie the faster the bullet). Also, in rifled guns, the the bullet acquires more spin, which increases stability. So longer range and better accuracy.
It doesn't matter whether the bullet does 1 twist or 5 through the barrel. It will have the same spin in relation to the velocity. I can't think of a modern firearm, other than a shotgun, that isn't rifled.
Longer barrels generally result in higher velocity - to a point. A longer sight radius also results in increased accuracy, in general, perhaps at the expense of speed of acquisition and alignment of the sights by the rifleman. Laser (aimpoint, not lasergrip) and holographic sights rule the day when "fast and good enough" is what matters.
The same caliber shot out of a smaller, lighter gun will be harder to control, in general. But a .22 in a small revolver is not like a .357 magnum snubnose.
Good on Florida dude for showing the thugs what's what and not hitting any innocents. They'll get free medical care and be back out on the streets in no time.
Used guns for sale are often given up because accuracy has started to go.
Quote: FaceMy suggestion to those than have guns, even if it's not a pistol and you have no license, just a long gun in a closet at home, is to know your state's laws. In Texas, for example, you can shoot for a great number of reasons, including threats to personal property. In NY,...well, let's just say I'm terrified of shooting anyone here.
It's my understanding that the most liberal gun laws in the lower 48 are in Arizona. Should I assume that any random stranger that I encounter could be carrying a gun?
I remember during Hurricane Huge how well armed the population seemed to be. There was gunfire all night long during the rioting. Of course, you are virtually crazy to take a boat out in the open water in the Caribbean without some decent armaments.
Quote: pacomartinIt's my understanding that the most liberal gun laws in the lower 48 are in Arizona. Should I assume that any random stranger that I encounter could be carrying a gun?
Yes. Just like you can assume that any random stranger you encounter might have voted at one time or another. It is America, after all.
Beauty of it is it doesn't matter, until it does. And when it does I'd rather be on the side with the guns.
Many ornate belt buckles are really .22s, but as with many areas, only a relatively few people choose to go armed but vehicles are often gun=safe equipped. It doesn't take a high number of people to be armed to make criminals wary. They see several people packing heat, they are not going to prey on the rest.
Though in some areas the American South you travel armed or you just don't travel. Swamps have gators and cougars so loaded firearms will be at hand. In "Growing Territory" its best to be armed because anyone you meet who has an agricultural investment nearby is going to be heavily armed.
In urban Texas, crime can be so bad that most young women will indeed be armed.
I know one woman in a rural Texas county whose life is mainly golf clubs, the volunteer fire department, a charity or two and a business or two. Pistols, rifles, shotguns... she owns them all and really doesn't go anywhere unarmed. Even the golf club has gun lockers. Her employees at the truck sales lot are all armed. Its simply a way of life. Its a peaceful life and you go equipped to keep it that way. She occasionally has to repossess a pick up truck... you bet she is armed doing it!
Quote: QuadDeucesIt doesn't matter whether the bullet does 1 twist or 5 through the barrel. It will have the same spin in relation to the velocity. I can't think of a modern firearm, other than a shotgun, that isn't rifled.
I just want to point out that even shotgun barrels can be rifled. I own a Remington 1100 Semi Auto, and have three different barrels for it. I have a 30" barrel that I use for pellets (targets/birds), a 24" rifled barrel for slugs (deer, boar), and an 18" barrel for home defense use (slugs/buckshot).
Most shotguns out there aren't rifled, but you can get barrels that are if you want/need them. Alternatively, they also produce rifled slugs that achieve the same thing but the rifling is in the ammo not the barrel.
Quote: NareedElementary physics. Rather simple, too. The longer the barrel, the more time the propellant pushes the bullet and the higher the muzzle velocity (ie the faster the bullet). Also, in rifled guns, the the bullet acquires more spin, which increases stability. So longer range and better accuracy.
The TV show, American Guns, is about some gun shop called GunSmoke. They recently had a show where this topic came up. The cut 3" off the end of a barrel and the bullet speed INCREASED after they had cut the barrel down.
This article, on the other hand, supports what Nareed and everyone else seem to agree on, that the longer the barrel, the higher the velocity.
http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/October05.htm
Quote: pacomartinIt's my understanding that the most liberal gun laws in the lower 48 are in Arizona. Should I assume that any random stranger that I encounter could be carrying a gun?
I remember during Hurricane Huge how well armed the population seemed to be. There was gunfire all night long during the rioting. Of course, you are virtually crazy to take a boat out in the open water in the Caribbean without some decent armaments.
I live in NY, which has to be the most difficult state to get a gun in, and I still assume everyone's carrying. After all, you don't need to jump through the hoops for a license to carry a gun, just us legal guys do. All the crims need is a couple bucks and one working arm. Gun owners come in all shapes and sizes. My Sheriff buddy, with his Sheriff issue gun bag, Sheriff issue mustache, pickup truck enblazoned with shooting club decals, is obvious. But it could be a guy like me, just a country bumpkin in cutoffs and a sleeveless shirt. It could be Wiz, a professional in khakis and a button up. It could be my girl, with her designer shades and manicured nails. It could be my gram, in her paisley shirt and gardening gloves. There's no way to tell, so assume everyone. It's safer that way.
Quote: FiziksI just want to point out that even shotgun barrels can be rifled.
They certainly can be. Most aren't. Especially when they're used for shooting bad guys, not deer.
It's funny how many things were thought of for shotguns because some jurisdictions made them the only tool permissible for hunters and police. My buddy and I argued about the inferiority of the shotgun over the rifle for MOST personal defense applications for some time, then Gabe Suarez wrote this that summed it up better than I ever could...
Quote: QuadDeucesMy buddy and I argued about the inferiority of the shotgun over the rifle for MOST personal defense applications for some time...
Which side did you take? I'd not mind hearing a pro-rifle arguement. Then again, I also like the betting systems threads ;)
Quote: 1BBOther than combat veterans, has anyone here ever shot another human being? Were they killed or wounded? I carried for a few years after my discharge from the military but have not carried in years although I have the permit and the weapons at home and at the ready.
Not me. I've pulled mine a couple times, but there's never been a human on the other end of it. If we are afforded wishes, I hope there never is.
With all who serve that I consider personal friends, there has to be, combined, several hundred years of service between them all. I figure I must know someone who's shot and probably killed another person, but it's not something that has ever been brought up. Not once ever. A lot of beating stories, a lot of "listen to this s#^$" stories, but none involving gun play. I don't blame them. There's not a single fist fight I haven't felt bad about, no matter how much the other person deserved it. Gun play has to be several orders of magnitude worse.
Quote: FaceI figure I must know someone who's shot and probably killed another person, but it's not something that has ever been brought up. Not once ever. A lot of beating stories, a lot of "listen to this s#^$" stories, but none involving gun play. I don't blame them. There's not a single fist fight I haven't felt bad about, no matter how much the other person deserved it. Gun play has to be several orders of magnitude worse.
I had one colleague who was a SEAL and did two tours in Vietnam. I am sure that he has a very high body count, as a big part of their job was assassination of high level Viet Cong. After the Bay of Pigs, it is illegal in this country to assassinate a political figure in peacetime, if a man is a military terrorist leader, the SEALS go in to their compounds and try and kill them before there next attack. There was probably very few scenarios where Bin Laden would have been captured alive.
But my buddy would only say that it was important to him not to hate. He had no ill-will towards Vietnam culture or their people. He had many Vietnamese friends. I honestly don't know if he even keeps a body count in his head.
Quote: pacomartin
But my buddy would only say that it was important to him not to hate. He had no ill-will towards Vietnam culture or their people. He had many Vietnamese friends. I honestly don't know if he even keeps a body count in his head.
I did two tours of the 'Nam with the 1st Air Cavalry Division and can say we respected the NVA as brave and commited foes. My second tour was cut short when I was fired up pretty good but I don't hate either, we were all just trying to do our duty as best we could.
I own weapons for family protection but have not fired a shot in anger in 42+ years. Between my brother-in-law and me we have some 10,000 rounds so we are ready... IMNSHO most likely scenarios would be best handled by handguns such as the M1911A1 .45 ACP or shotguns because it is hard to envision being in a gun fight at the ranges best suited to rifles but we do have that base covered in case.
Quote: pacomartinI had one colleague who was a SEAL and did two tours in Vietnam. I am sure that he has a very high body count, as a big part of their job was assassination of high level Viet Cong. After the Bay of Pigs, it is illegal in this country to assassinate a political figure in peacetime, if a man is a military terrorist leader, the SEALS go in to their compounds and try and kill them before there next attack. There was probably very few scenarios where Bin Laden would have been captured alive.
But my buddy would only say that it was important to him not to hate. He had no ill-will towards Vietnam culture or their people. He had many Vietnamese friends. I honestly don't know if he even keeps a body count in his head.
This sounds like the Phoenix Program. Was your friend a member of SEAL Team ONE by any chance?
