The Gout Thread
To my knowledge, all three of those ailments are usually the result of poor lifestyle and can be reversed by healthy lifestyle, eliminating the need for drugsQuote: darkoz
Why is there always an assumption that drugs must be illegal.
I carry drugs with me everywhere
Allopurinol for my Gout
Metformin for my Diabetes
Losartan for my high blood pressure
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Quote: Ace2To my knowledge, all three of those ailments are usually the result of poor lifestyle and can be reversed by healthy lifestyle, eliminating the need for drugsQuote: darkoz
Why is there always an assumption that drugs must be illegal.
I carry drugs with me everywhere
Allopurinol for my Gout
Metformin for my Diabetes
Losartan for my high blood pressure
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link to original post
My lifestyle is such that in all my years I have never:
Taken illegal drugs, not even marijuana
Had even a glass of wine (tasted it once and spit it out)
Never smoked a cigarette.
Okay so I enjoy candy bars, milk shakes, red meat and shrimp cocktails.
Let me have something in life!
Quote: darkozQuote: Ace2To my knowledge, all three of those ailments are usually the result of poor lifestyle and can be reversed by healthy lifestyle, eliminating the need for drugsQuote: darkoz
Why is there always an assumption that drugs must be illegal.
I carry drugs with me everywhere
Allopurinol for my Gout
Metformin for my Diabetes
Losartan for my high blood pressure
link to original post
link to original post
My lifestyle is such that in all my years I have never:
Taken illegal drugs, not even marijuana
Had even a glass of wine (tasted it once and spit it out)
Never smoked a cigarette.
Okay so I enjoy candy bars, milk shakes, red meat and shrimp cocktails.
Let me have something in life!
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I have also never tried any "illegal" drugs including marijuana but cigarettes, booze, candy bars, milk shakes, red meat and shrimp cocktails are all in my wheelhouse.
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
Quote: Ace2Amazing that you associate red meat with cigarettes and junk food. A well marbled grass-fed ribeye is one of the healthiest things you can eat, especially the super-nutritious fat. But every protein should be a reasonable portion size
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
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Both red meat and Shrimp are foods that exacerbate Gout which for years was nicknamed rich man's disease because primary foods ( lobster, shrimp, steak) were the delicacy of the upper class.
Tomatoes, mushrooms also exacerbate Gout.
My Gout diet would consist of legumes and cherries and chicken. Very little else.
I say BS. Many of those rich men were obese alcoholicsQuote: darkozQuote: Ace2Amazing that you associate red meat with cigarettes and junk food. A well marbled grass-fed ribeye is one of the healthiest things you can eat, especially the super-nutritious fat. But every protein should be a reasonable portion size
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
link to original post
Both red meat and Shrimp are foods that exacerbate Gout which for years was nicknamed rich man's disease because primary foods ( lobster, shrimp, steak) were the delicacy of the upper class.
Tomatoes, mushrooms also exacerbate Gout.
My Gout diet would consist of legumes and cherries and chicken. Very little else.
link to original post
Gout, like diabetes, is mostly the result of being unhealthy, out of shape, eating processed foods (often sugary)
Get healthy and you should be fine. Include plenty of mushrooms, tomatoes, steaks in your diet. I do, and my uric acid level is fine.
Quote: Ace2I say BS. Many of those rich men were obese alcoholicsQuote: darkozQuote: Ace2Amazing that you associate red meat with cigarettes and junk food. A well marbled grass-fed ribeye is one of the healthiest things you can eat, especially the super-nutritious fat. But every protein should be a reasonable portion size
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
link to original post
Both red meat and Shrimp are foods that exacerbate Gout which for years was nicknamed rich man's disease because primary foods ( lobster, shrimp, steak) were the delicacy of the upper class.
Tomatoes, mushrooms also exacerbate Gout.
My Gout diet would consist of legumes and cherries and chicken. Very little else.
link to original post
Gout, like diabetes, is mostly the result of being unhealthy, out of shape, eating processed foods (often sugary)
Get healthy and you should be fine. Include plenty of mushrooms, tomatoes, steaks in your diet. I do, and my uric acid level is fine.
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Oddly strongly held mostly wrong view on gout. Read up on purines.
ETA: bolded mine and if that’s your basis you really don’t get empirical data gathering. For example, I eat lots of salt and my blood pressure is fine. So have I demonstrated salt is healthy and not linked to blood pressure
Quote: Ace2I say BS.Quote: darkozQuote: Ace2Amazing that you associate red meat with cigarettes and junk food. A well marbled grass-fed ribeye is one of the healthiest things you can eat, especially the super-nutritious fat. But every protein should be a reasonable portion size
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
link to original post
Both red meat and Shrimp are foods that exacerbate Gout which for years was nicknamed rich man's disease because primary foods ( lobster, shrimp, steak) were the delicacy of the upper class.
Tomatoes, mushrooms also exacerbate Gout.
My Gout diet would consist of legumes and cherries and chicken. Very little else.
link to original post
Gout, like diabetes, is mostly the result of being unhealthy, out of shape, eating processed foods (often sugary)
Get healthy and you should be fine. Include plenty of mushrooms, tomatoes, steaks in your diet
link to original post
You don't speak from knowledge my man.
I would curse you with the Gout condition but I am not so cruel.
Gout is very serious. Diet helps but is not the cause. I take medication so I can eat red meat, etc, but trust me that isn't the cure.
Here are some images of severe Gout attack.
If you think diet is going to avoid the pics below AND you suggest eating the trigger foods like red meat then you are seriously mistaken.
Quote: gordonm888Although I admit that the gout discussion was kinda interesting.
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If gout persists, I can fork the discussion to a new thread.
(But yes... this is not where gout belongs.)
strikethrough added after split
Quote: Ace2Amazing that you associate red meat with cigarettes and junk food. A well marbled grass-fed ribeye is one of the healthiest things you can eat, especially the super-nutritious fat. But every protein should be a reasonable portion size
Shrimp could be healthy if it came from uncontaminated waters, but it doesn’t
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I hope MichaelBluejay stumbles upon this post.
Quote: bobbartopI got horrible gout about seven years ago, it was very painful. My uric acid was 10, very high. Long story short, I now drink a glass of TART cherry juice from concentrate every morning. Uric acid is now 7. No gout. No pills. I eat anything.
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I eat anything as well.
I just take allopurinol. One tablet a day.
A bottle of thirty pills costs me $8.
But I think that should be the end of this discussion because we already got rebuked for hijacking.
My last post on the topic.
Quote: Ace2To my knowledge, all three of those ailments are usually the result of poor lifestyle and can be reversed by healthy lifestyle, eliminating the need for drugsQuote: darkoz
Why is there always an assumption that drugs must be illegal.
I carry drugs with me everywhere
Allopurinol for my Gout
Metformin for my Diabetes
Losartan for my high blood pressure
link to original post
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Truth Ace2.
Anyone can "cure" gout, diabetes, high blood pressure through diet alone. Usually in 21 days.
tuttigym
Quote: AlanMendelsonAt some point I'd like to see posters also cite their board certified medical degrees.
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I disagree with the assertion that to be considered knowledgeable on a topic you must hold some form of credential/degree/license. Any layperson who spends the time educating themselves on a topic and can sufficiently cite their sources and reasoning behind the opinions they have drawn from said sources should be treated as an expert unless significant flaws in their reasoning can be established.
There are diets and foods which can mitigate the effects such that it's dormant. That's why Bobbartop (welcome back to you buddy as well) has to drink tart cherries every single morning. If he stops the Gout will flare up.
I know a lot of people are anti-medication and prefer homeopathic means. So here is my response.
1) I know my limitations. I know for example the idea of having tart cherries every single day of my life won't work. My stomach and taste buds will be going into revolt. Anymore than I could eat pizza which I love every single day for the rest of my life. Popping a single morning pill is much easier for me.
2). Gout affects everyone different. Diet and exercise should have an effect but not necessarily. My Gout was severe Enough before I had it diagnosed it put me in crutches a few times. Allopurinol has prevented that for two decades.
That said some people have to take higher and higher doses as they progress. Eventually they may have to go onto Colchicine which is the strongest medication for Gout
You don't want to get to Colchicine. It's very bad side effects. Easy to overdose.
In fact it was an episode of forensic files where someone was poisoned by an over dose of Colchicine. I remember the detectives got the lab report and were like "what's Colchicine? It's rare enough that whoever knows is probably our suspect"
It was funny because my reaction at the lab report was "Gout medication?". I guess I would have been suspect number one.
I have been lucky however in that I have been on the same dosage of Allopurinol for two decades.
3) Allopurinol. It's like the work horse of pharma when it comes to Gout. I will talk about that next post but it's very safe and effective. Precisely what medicine should be
Nope. Leronlimab cures goutQuote: darkozTo be clear, there is no cure for Gout. If you have Gout, you have it for good.
There are diets and foods which can mitigate the effects such that it's dormant. That's why Bobbartop (welcome back to you buddy as well) has to drink tart cherries every single morning. If he stops the Gout will flare up.
I know a lot of people are anti-medication and prefer homeopathic means. So here is my response.
1) I know my limitations. I know for example the idea of having tart cherries every single day of my life won't work. My stomach and taste buds will be going into revolt. Anymore than I could eat pizza which I love every single day for the rest of my life. Popping a single morning pill is much easier for me.
2). Gout affects everyone different. Diet and exercise should have an effect but not necessarily. My Gout was severe Enough before I had it diagnosed it put me in crutches a few times. Allopurinol has prevented that for two decades.
That said some people have to take higher and higher doses as they progress. Eventually they may have to go onto Colchicine which is the strongest medication for Gout
You don't want to get to Colchicine. It's very bad side effects. Easy to overdose.
In fact it was an episode of forensic files where someone was poisoned by an over dose of Colchicine. I remember the detectives got the lab report and were like "what's Colchicine? It's rare enough that whoever knows is probably our suspect"
It was funny because my reaction at the lab report was "Gout medication?". I guess I would have been suspect number one.
I have been lucky however in that I have been on the same dosage of Allopurinol for two decades.
3) Allopurinol. It's like the work horse of pharma when it comes to Gout. I will talk about that next post but it's very safe and effective. Precisely what medicine should be
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Quote: UP84Nope. Leronlimab cures goutQuote: darkozTo be clear, there is no cure for Gout. If you have Gout, you have it for good.
There are diets and foods which can mitigate the effects such that it's dormant. That's why Bobbartop (welcome back to you buddy as well) has to drink tart cherries every single morning. If he stops the Gout will flare up.
I know a lot of people are anti-medication and prefer homeopathic means. So here is my response.
1) I know my limitations. I know for example the idea of having tart cherries every single day of my life won't work. My stomach and taste buds will be going into revolt. Anymore than I could eat pizza which I love every single day for the rest of my life. Popping a single morning pill is much easier for me.
2). Gout affects everyone different. Diet and exercise should have an effect but not necessarily. My Gout was severe Enough before I had it diagnosed it put me in crutches a few times. Allopurinol has prevented that for two decades.
That said some people have to take higher and higher doses as they progress. Eventually they may have to go onto Colchicine which is the strongest medication for Gout
You don't want to get to Colchicine. It's very bad side effects. Easy to overdose.
In fact it was an episode of forensic files where someone was poisoned by an over dose of Colchicine. I remember the detectives got the lab report and were like "what's Colchicine? It's rare enough that whoever knows is probably our suspect"
It was funny because my reaction at the lab report was "Gout medication?". I guess I would have been suspect number one.
I have been lucky however in that I have been on the same dosage of Allopurinol for two decades.
3) Allopurinol. It's like the work horse of pharma when it comes to Gout. I will talk about that next post but it's very safe and effective. Precisely what medicine should be
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Ha, ha, ha, I mean, LOL.
However different mechanism. Leronlimab would have no effect on Gout.
Where did you hear this nonsense? Probably from an American doctor that got you on another drug for life. Do you also believe diabetes isn’t reversible?Quote: darkozTo be clear, there is no cure for Gout. If you have Gout, you have it for good.
I had gout and now I don’t. That painful experience was the best thing that ever happened to my health. It’s a wake up call telling you a complete change in lifestyle is required. That change is not difficult…mostly about eating real food instead of processed garbage. You must learn how to cook, which isn’t difficult either. Getting some exercise is also important but probably 70% of your health is what you put in your body. Don’t worry about eating too many grams of this or that, just eat all natural food (no labels)
High uric acid is a predictor of everything bad to come: diabetes, heart problems, early death etc. Taking a prescription doesn’t make you healthier, it just masks your symptoms and probably makes you sicker over time. You don’t want to mask that symptom…it’s your body’s “check engine light” telling you to get healthy now or deal with horrible consequences later.
Quote: Ace2
High uric acid is a predictor of everything bad to come: diabetes, heart problems, early death etc. Taking a prescription doesn’t make you healthier, it just masks your symptoms and probably makes you sicker over time. You don’t want to mask that symptom…it’s your body’s “check engine light” telling you to get healthy now or deal with horrible consequences later.
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I really agree with much of what Ace2 says, especially his last paragraph. That's really good advice.
Quote: Ace2Where did you hear this nonsense? Probably from an American doctor that got you on another drug for life. Do you also believe diabetes isn’t reversible?Quote: darkozTo be clear, there is no cure for Gout. If you have Gout, you have it for good.
I had gout and now I don’t. That painful experience was the best thing that ever happened to my health. It’s a wake up call telling you a complete change in lifestyle is required. That change is not difficult…mostly about eating real food instead of processed garbage. You must learn how to cook, which isn’t difficult either. Getting some exercise is also important but probably 70% of your health is what you put in your body.
High uric acid is a predictor of everything bad to come: diabetes, heart problems, early death etc. Taking a prescription doesn’t make you healthier, it just masks your symptoms and probably makes you sicker over time. You don’t want to mask that symptom…it’s your body’s “check engine light” telling you to get healthy now or deal with horrible consequences later.
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Well forgive me if I follow the licensed medical professionals and not unlicensed medical professionals internet forum diatribes.
What's funny is you literally argue you eliminated Gout while admitting that you had to change your lifestyle.
You still have Gout my friend.
To be clear, someone without Gout who eats purine rich foods isn't necessarily going to have his feet swell up. Right?
You understand why? Because that person processes purines properly so he can ingest purines and not be affected.
You have to maintain your "healthy" diet BECAUSE you still have Gout.
The symptoms are not the disease. You seem to be making the mistake of confusing the two.
There are as you know people who are allergic to peanuts. I am sure they avoid peanuts and by this method avoid the symptoms of their peanut allergies.
Certainly you don't tell them they no longer have peanut allergies simply because their diet is adjusted for it and as a result show no allergic reactions?
Quote: Ace2Where did you hear this nonsense? Probably from an American doctor that got you on another drug for life. Do you also believe diabetes isn’t reversible?
Type 2 diabetes can not be permanently reversed but it can go into remission and you can keep it in check with diet and exercise. That's not a guarantee it will never come back, though.
Not sure why you brought up "American doctors," but here's a link to the British Diabetic Association stating the above.
There is also currently no cure for type 1 diabetes, according to the Diabetes Research Institute (and I assume many other medical professionals).
You wrote that you take drugs for your diabetes, gout and high blood pressure. With all due respect, it sounds like your following “licensed medical professionals” has resulted in total disasterQuote: darkoz
Well forgive me if I follow the licensed medical professionals and not unlicensed medical professionals internet forum diatribes.
What's funny is you literally argue you eliminated Gout while admitting that you had to change your lifestyle.
You still have Gout my friend.
To be clear, someone without Gout who eats purine rich foods isn't necessarily going to have his feet swell up. Right?
You understand why? Because that person processes purines properly so he can ingest purines and not be affected.
You have to maintain your "healthy" diet BECAUSE you still have Gout.
The symptoms are not the disease. You seem to be making the mistake of confusing the two.
There are as you know people who are allergic to peanuts. I am sure they avoid peanuts and by this method avoid the symptoms of their peanut allergies.
Certainly you don't tell them they no longer have peanut allergies simply because their diet is adjusted for it and as a result show no allergic reactions?
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They say American doctors don’t create cures…they create customers. You seem like an excellent repeat customer for them and the pharma industry. I generally see a doctor once per year for a physical and I take no drugs.
You claim I still have gout, so how would I be diagnosed with it? I eat “purine-rich” foods like steak, lamb and spinach all the time…shouldn’t I be getting gout attacks?
Around the time I got gout and started paying attention to my health, I saw my glucose was rising fast and approaching the “pre-diabetes” level. I fixed that as well simply by changing the foods I ate. If I had not taken charge of my own health, I would be on diabetes drugs furnished by the doctor. My doctor never even mentioned my glucose level approaching the danger zone
Now, according your logic, I actually have diabetes because I’d definitely get it if I kept eating garbage. If I ate and drank like I did in my 20s I would be morbidity obese at this age. Does that mean I actually am obese because I must eat properly now to maintain a healthy weight? Is obesity another “non-curable” illness that you have for life and can only be managed with drugs?
Quote: Ace2You wrote that you take drugs for your diabetes, gout and high blood pressure. With all due respect, it sounds like your following “licensed medical professionals” has resulted in total disasterQuote: darkoz
Well forgive me if I follow the licensed medical professionals and not unlicensed medical professionals internet forum diatribes.
What's funny is you literally argue you eliminated Gout while admitting that you had to change your lifestyle.
You still have Gout my friend.
To be clear, someone without Gout who eats purine rich foods isn't necessarily going to have his feet swell up. Right?
You understand why? Because that person processes purines properly so he can ingest purines and not be affected.
You have to maintain your "healthy" diet BECAUSE you still have Gout.
The symptoms are not the disease. You seem to be making the mistake of confusing the two.
There are as you know people who are allergic to peanuts. I am sure they avoid peanuts and by this method avoid the symptoms of their peanut allergies.
Certainly you don't tell them they no longer have peanut allergies simply because their diet is adjusted for it and as a result show no allergic reactions?
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They say American doctors don’t create cures…they create customers. You seem like an excellent repeat customer for them and the pharma industry. I generally see a doctor once per year for a physical and I take no drugs.
You claim I still have gout, so how would I be diagnosed with it? I eat “purine-rich” foods like steak, lamb and spinach all the time…shouldn’t I be getting gout attacks?
Around the time I got gout and started paying attention to my health, I saw my glucose was rising fast and approaching the “pre-diabetes” level. I fixed that as well simply by changing the foods I ate. If I had not taken charge of my own health, I would be on diabetes drugs furnished by the doctor. My doctor never even mentioned my glucose level approaching the danger zone
Now, according your logic, I actually have diabetes because I’d definitely get it if I kept eating garbage. If I ate and drank like I did in my 20s I would be morbidity obese at this age. Does that mean I actually am obese because I must eat properly now to maintain a healthy weight? Is obesity another “non-curable” illness that you have for life and can only be managed with drugs?
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You are beginning to see logic.
The evidence is to attempt to prove your point you now make apples to oranges comparisons because you realize your point is being lost.
Obviously if you are a proper weight, you are not now currently obese.
You made mockery a few pages ago that I would compare red meat to cigarettes even though red meat isn't good for me. Yet now you make ridiculous comparisons like obesity to measurements of blood work
Which gets me to the other part of your question. Gout is measurable by a blood test just like diabetes. You may be borderline diabetic for all you know or you may even be diabetic (it's not nicknamed the "silent killer" for nothing. Lots of people who believe they don't have it find out the hard way.)
So, no simply not having Gout attacks or diabetic strokes isn't the professional medical test you need. Go to get your purine levels measured. By your own testimony you eat a high purine diet.
But of course if you believe the medical professionals are just liars looking for sap customers then don't bother. You would probably ignore the answers if they don't agree with your thinking.
Quote: AlanMendelsonAt some point I'd like to see posters also cite their board certified medical degrees.
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Mine is from SUNY Downstate. Awarded 1986.
My knowledge of gout nowadays is probably less than a sufferer, who has kept up with the new theories and treatments.
I think I can find a bonafide medical article ‘proving’ any food you name is bad for you in some way. And a different one ‘proving’ that same food is good for you.
I had a world renowned professor in Med School who asked this simple question….
How much salt does a human excrete in a day? His answer was something like this…. Unless you are Lot’s wife, you excrete the same amount you take in.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: AlanMendelsonAt some point I'd like to see posters also cite their board certified medical degrees.
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Mine is from SUNY Downstate. Awarded 1986.
My knowledge of gout nowadays is probably less than a sufferer, who has kept up with the new theories and treatments.
I think I can find a bonafide medical article ‘proving’ any food you name is bad for you in some way. And a different one ‘proving’ that same food is good for you.
I had a world renowned professor in Med School who asked this simple question….
How much salt does a human excrete in a day? His answer was something like this…. Unless you are Lot’s wife, you excrete the same amount you take in.
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Well, I guess that's my "lot" in life!
Since I never heard of it, I just googled “purine test” and the results bring me to uric acid. My uric acid level is fine and has been for years…I do not have gout and never will have it againQuote: darkoz[
You are beginning to see logic.
The evidence is to attempt to prove your point you now make apples to oranges comparisons because you realize your point is being lost.
Obviously if you are a proper weight, you are not now currently obese.
You made mockery a few pages ago that I would compare red meat to cigarettes even though red meat isn't good for me. Yet now you make ridiculous comparisons like obesity to measurements of blood work
Which gets me to the other part of your question. Gout is measurable by a blood test just like diabetes. You may be borderline diabetic for all you know or you may even be diabetic (it's not nicknamed the "silent killer" for nothing. Lots of people who believe they don't have it find out the hard way.)
So, no simply not having Gout attacks or diabetic strokes isn't the professional medical test you need. Go to get your purine levels measured. By your own testimony you eat a high purine diet.
But of course if you believe the medical professionals are just liars looking for sap customers then don't bother. You would probably ignore the answers if they don't agree with your thinking.
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How is red meat bad for you? It’s very nutritious, especially the fat. Grass fed of course and reasonable portion size. The fatty cuts are so rich that you’re satisfied with a four ounce serving. I eat grilled ribeye or roast rack of lamb about three times per week
I don’t eat a “high purine” diet, I eat a wide variety of fresh foods, some of which happen to contain substantial purines (not like I care). Purines being the cause of gout is an outdated theory. Read about it…gout, like t2 diabetes, is the result of unhealthy lifestyle, primarily processed/sugary food/drink
I didn’t say medical professionals are liars, I said only you can take charge of your own health. They won’t do anything until you’re already sick, then put you on drugs for life, keeping you alive for a while but not cured or healthy. It’s a very lucrative business for them and big pharma
Quote: Ace2Since I never heard of it, I just googled “purine test” and the results bring me to uric acid. My uric acid level is fine and has been for years…I do not have gout and never will have it againQuote: darkoz[
You are beginning to see logic.
The evidence is to attempt to prove your point you now make apples to oranges comparisons because you realize your point is being lost.
Obviously if you are a proper weight, you are not now currently obese.
You made mockery a few pages ago that I would compare red meat to cigarettes even though red meat isn't good for me. Yet now you make ridiculous comparisons like obesity to measurements of blood work
Which gets me to the other part of your question. Gout is measurable by a blood test just like diabetes. You may be borderline diabetic for all you know or you may even be diabetic (it's not nicknamed the "silent killer" for nothing. Lots of people who believe they don't have it find out the hard way.)
So, no simply not having Gout attacks or diabetic strokes isn't the professional medical test you need. Go to get your purine levels measured. By your own testimony you eat a high purine diet.
But of course if you believe the medical professionals are just liars looking for sap customers then don't bother. You would probably ignore the answers if they don't agree with your thinking.
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How is red meat bad for you? It’s very nutritious, especially the fat. Grass fed of course and reasonable portion size. The fatty cuts are so rich that you’re satisfied with a four ounce serving. I eat grilled ribeye or roast rack of lamb about three times per week
I don’t eat a “high purine” diet, I eat a wide variety of fresh foods, some of which happen to contain substantial purines (not like I care). Purines being the cause of gout is an outdated theory. Read about it…gout, like t2 diabetes, is the result of unhealthy lifestyle, primarily processed/sugary food/drink
I didn’t say medical professionals are liars, I said only you can take charge of your own health. They won’t do anything until you’re already sick, then put you on drugs for life, keeping you alive for a while but not cured or healthy. It’s a very lucrative business for them and big pharma
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I don't know what to tell you, my friend.
You have Gout
You have it in control which is fantastic.
But you have it.
Medical professionals will tell you this. Google it and you will see the same thing.
I don't know why you seem so embarrassed about it. You should be extolling the wonders of controlling your Gout, not misstating that you don't have it anymore.
Everyone has the potential to develop high uric acid in the future if they allow their health to deteriorate enough. That means everyone has gout, according to your logic.
Quote: Ace2Darkoz, you are controlling your high uric acid level with drugs. I’m healthy, have no abnormal conditions to control and therefore I take no drugs. I don’t know of any test, image or analysis that would say I have gout, so how would a medical professional diagnose me as having it?
Everyone has the potential to develop high uric acid in the future if they allow their health to deteriorate enough. That means everyone has gout, according to your logic.
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You keep attacking my "logic"
It's not my logic, it's medical information. Look it up. Gout is a condition you have for life.
Your denial because you have it under control may be comforting but the medical community says you have Gout.
There are lots of conditions like that. I had Asthma as a child. Haven't had an attack in 30 years. But my Asthma will still show up in lung tests.
I don't insist to the doctors that I don't have Asthma anymore because I haven't had an attack in 30 years.
There's a whole lot more, but just from these facts (yeah, I looked them up), we can state pretty clearly:
1. Genetics cause about 60% of the cases. If this is you, you're boned for life.
2. If your kidneys aren't excreting enough uric acid, you're gonna get gout no matter how healthy your lifestyle.
3. Lifestyle changes have limited usefulness, unless your gout is caused be non-genetic reasons (about 1 in 8 cases)
I find there's enough room in the factors for both Ace2 and DarkOz to be correct. Ace2's gout may be that one in eight, whereas DarkOz has the more likely bad-gene/bad-kidney flavor of gout.
When it comes to these kinds of diseases (and I definitely throw diabetes in here) is they are the result of a vast number of factors that generate a single end result—too much of something in the body (glucose or uric acid). Because of the numerous causes, you cannot champion one methodology (drink pine tree sap!) and sneer at the others, because you don't know what caused the other person's disease.
I find it amazing that we're alive at all, much less make it out of the womb, mature, and reproduce. I mean, the Krebs cycle (citric acid cycle) is ten steps long! All ten steps have to happen before a cell can use carbs for energy. The enzymes required are made up of hundreds of atoms! How this 'just evolved' seems at the very limits of plausibility—but if you had a few billion years of random stuff happening, I guess it's possible however unlikely.
The point is: every damned thing about the human body is complicated. Becoming a doctor requires almost as much time post-graduate as it takes to get to college in the first place. Sure, there are perverse incentives in the profession--all professions have them. A layman reading Wikipedia can seem as smart as a MD, but frankly, I'll take someone who has a far deeper understanding of whatever is trying to kill me, thank you.
Quote: tuttigymAugust 20th, 2022 at 7:08:52 AMpermalink
It is remarkable with all the intelligence associated with this forum that no one has introduced genetics into the discussion. While lifestyle is a major factor, genetics plays a huge role in our health outcomes.
tuttigym
Thanks, BillHasRetired
tuttigym
Look up the meals of Henry the VIII.
Quote: rxwineDid anyone mention it was known as the the “Disease of Kings”?
Look up the meals of Henry the VIII.
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I think, generally, rich diet reveals the underlying failure in uric acid metabolism far more than causes it.
Except for those 12 percenters, as I mentioned above.
In my personal case I know for a fact my father had Gout. And my first podiatrist was the family podiatrist so it was he who informed me that Gout was going to be a lifelong battle when I was diagnosed
Ace2 would know his own family history so he can speak up about it on his end but I agree with Bill, there is a possibility we are both correct.
EDIT: While my kidneys come back healthy from my periodic tests, I do suffer from periodic kidney stones, about once every six years I get a pair I have to pass.
That's no joke either!
That’s exactly what the medical/pharma industry wants everyone to believe…If you’re an obese T2 diabetic with gout, that’s all due to poor genetics. There’s nothing you can do about it except take their drugs to keep you aliveQuote: BillHasRetired
3. Lifestyle changes have limited usefulness
I
Quote: Ace2That’s exactly what the medical/pharma industry wants everyone to believe…If you’re an obese T2 diabetic with gout, that’s all due to poor genetics. There’s nothing you can do about it except take their drugs to keep you aliveQuote: BillHasRetired
3. Lifestyle changes have limited usefulness
I
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Genetics deniers?
That's a new one on me.
Have you ever read about the native populations of America and the Pacific Islands? Just over a century ago, before substantial contact with white men, all chronic diseases, like diabetes, were nearly nonexistent. Today, over 30% of the adult population have diabetes in many of those communities. 12% of Maori (native New Zealand) men have gout today while about 0% had it 200 years ago.Quote: darkoz[
Genetics deniers?
That's a new one on me.
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Their genetics didn’t change. They went from being active people living off the land/sea to sedentary people eating processed food and, in some cases, drinking too much alcohol
Think about that for a minute, then read the recently posted Journal of Clinical Rheumatology report that 60% of gout cases are caused by genetics. Does that seem even remotely plausible? Recent historical facts show it's essentially 100% caused by diet and lifestyle. 60% is that Journal’s subjective measurement and interpretation of something, not a “fact”. And biased since this is the kind of “fact” that generates more patients
Let’s say 1 in 10,000 of the ancient native people ever got T2 diabetes or gout. In those cases, probably bad genetics
Quote: BillHasRetired.
There's a whole lot more, but just from these facts (yeah, I looked them up), we can state pretty clearly:
1. Genetics cause about 60% of the cases. If this is you, you're boned for life.
3. Lifestyle changes have limited usefulness, unless your gout is caused be non-genetic reasons (about 1 in 8 cases)
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I gotta say the maths on #1 and 3 seem a bit incongruent to me taken together.
Quote: Ace2Have you ever read about the native populations of America and the Pacific Islands? Just over a century ago, before substantial contact with white men, all chronic diseases, like diabetes, were nearly nonexistent. Today, over 30% of the adult population have diabetes in many of those communities. 12% of Maori (native New Zealand) men have gout today while about 0% had it 200 years ago.Quote: darkoz[
Genetics deniers?
That's a new one on me.
link to original post
Their genetics didn’t change. They went from being active people living off the land/sea to sedentary people eating processed food and, in some cases, drinking too much alcohol
Think about that for a minute, then read the recently posted Journal of Clinical Rheumatology report that 60% of gout cases are caused by genetics. Does that seem even remotely plausible? Recent historical facts show it's essentially 100% caused by diet and lifestyle. 60% is that Journal’s subjective measurement and interpretation, not a “fact”. And biased since this is the kind of “fact” that generates more patients
Let’s say 1 in 10,000 of the ancient native people ever got T2 diabetes or gout. In those cases, probably bad genetics
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Like literally you say their genetics didn't change but point out their Gout was almost non-existent before THEY CAME INTO CONTACT WITH WHITE MEN!
So, you don't think that in hundreds of years since they came into contact with white men they didn't sleep with white men and introduce the genetics that affect them today?
Your history lesson actually is more proof that it is genetics that influence Gout.
Historically, even with segregated population control, the white man has inter-populated with other races they have come into contact with.
But thanks for proving my point.
Quote: Ace2
They went from being active people living off the land/sea to sedentary people eating processed food and, in some cases, drinking too much alcohol
The internets says processed food really didn't come into fashion until 1920s. Seeing as gout sufferers like Bejamin Franklin was long dead by then.
(though I don't doubt it contributes to many ailments)
Sugar, probably the worst processed food you can eat, existed centuries before 1920Quote: rxwineQuote: Ace2
They went from being active people living off the land/sea to sedentary people eating processed food and, in some cases, drinking too much alcohol
The internets says processed food really didn't come into fashion until 1920s. Seeing as gout sufferers like Bejamin Franklin was long dead by then.
(though I don't doubt it contributes to many ailments)
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Here’s another case where I think you’re joking, but not entirely sure.Quote: darkoz
Like literally you say their genetics didn't change but point out their Gout was almost non-existent before THEY CAME INTO CONTACT WITH WHITE MEN!
So, you don't think that in hundreds of years since they came into contact with white men they didn't sleep with white men and introduce the genetics that affect them today?
Your history lesson actually is more proof that it is genetics that influence Gout.
Historically, even with segregated population control, the white man has inter-populated with other races they have come into contact with.
But thanks for proving my point.
link to original post
10% of the American population has T2 diabetes while over 50% of the Pima Indians (Arizona) have it. Can you fit that into your theory?
Of course there will always be some interbreeding but a new race was not created, not in North America anyway. By “contact with white men” I’m referring to the permanent change in food supply and lifestyle when white men took over their land
Quote: Ace2Sugar, probably the worst processed food you can eat, existed centuries before 1920Quote: rxwineQuote: Ace2
They went from being active people living off the land/sea to sedentary people eating processed food and, in some cases, drinking too much alcohol
The internets says processed food really didn't come into fashion until 1920s. Seeing as gout sufferers like Bejamin Franklin was long dead by then.
(though I don't doubt it contributes to many ailments)
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Makes me wonder if we should have stuck to chewing on hard sugar cane in the stalk.
Quote:The interior is edible and contains sugar, fiber, and other nutrients. You can press it to make a sugarcane juice, which you can add to anything, or you can simply chew on the interior of the cane. Chop up the cane into sticks to use for food skewers or drink stirrers and sweeteners.
Quote: Ace2That’s exactly what the medical/pharma industry wants everyone to believe…If you’re an obese T2 diabetic with gout, that’s all due to poor genetics. There’s nothing you can do about it except take their drugs to keep you aliveQuote: BillHasRetired
3. Lifestyle changes have limited usefulness
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I am reminded of the early 1990s, when I was standing at the hospital nursery, gazing at my second son, when I became aware of a highly bruised and somewhat disheveled woman who was also gazing at her newborn. She told me her story, and there was no pause button, unfortunately.
See, she was one of those who 'took charge of her own health', and decided that her second child would be born fully naturally. She bullied her husband into supporting her, while her OB/GYN begged her to have a caesarean, since her first one was caesarean. She knew her rights, and she had done research, so there they were in the delivery room, puffing away.
The child was born healthy, but unknown to anyone, the placenta had grown into the caesarean scar (a common complication). When the OB attempted to remove the placenta, her entire uterus unzipped, she passed out from low blood pressure, and a two-hour emergency hysterectomy ensued, as they could not save the organ from such trauma. The bruising? It was from the surgical team trying to reinflate her circulatory system with an estimated 35 transfusions, just to keep her alive.
Her chief complaint? Not the loss of her organs, nor her near-death experience. It was the fact that with so much transfusion activity, they could not be certain she hadn't gotten "Non-A / Non-B" hepatitis (which is now called Hep-C), and thus she was prevented from nursing her newborn.
As a blood donor, it was quite hard for me to hide my anger, but I managed. I donate because most folks who need transfusions do so through no fault of their own. Car wrecks, cancer, hemophilia--I donate to help them, not self-indulgent nine-month medical experts in obstetrics. I've never forgotten her tale of pure selfishness, and how she almost left her husband a widower and her two children motherless because She Knew All.
You know, Ace2, if the medical industry is banking on DarkOz's dependence on Allopurinol for wheelbarrows of cash, they're going to be out of luck--it is easily synthesized, is now a generic drug, and is so cheap that most folks don't even have a copay on it.
Quote: Ace2Here’s another case where I think you’re joking, but not entirely sure.Quote: darkoz
Like literally you say their genetics didn't change but point out their Gout was almost non-existent before THEY CAME INTO CONTACT WITH WHITE MEN!
So, you don't think that in hundreds of years since they came into contact with white men they didn't sleep with white men and introduce the genetics that affect them today?
Your history lesson actually is more proof that it is genetics that influence Gout.
Historically, even with segregated population control, the white man has inter-populated with other races they have come into contact with.
But thanks for proving my point.
link to original post
10% of the American population has T2 diabetes while over 50% of the Pima Indians (Arizona) have it. Can you fit that into your theory?
Of course there will always be some interbreeding but a new race was not created, not in North America anyway. By “contact with white men” I’m referring to the permanent change in food supply and lifestyle when white men took over their land
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It's you that appears to be joking.
Genetic markers, once introduced into a population are quick to spread through the generations.
Look at African Americans. Of course a "new race" wasn't created (this is where I suspect you were joking but not certain) However if you think that African Americans aren't going to show some genetic markers from hundreds of years of interbreeding you are mistaken.
The joke is who is pure African, not the other way around.
So Indians in Arizona? You really think they don't have genetic markers from white interbreeding?
And your theory seems to be that only 10% of white people eat junk food while they feed this junk food to the rest of the world? SMH!
