2020 Election

Quote: Steverinos

When consumer demand is not present for the goods and services potential business offers, that business is not started. We live in a middle class consumer driven economy, not the other way around. The cycle starts with consumers.

There was zero consumer demand for both the Model T and iPhone before they were introduced. There was no demand for oil before Drake drilled his well. Investment happens first. then consumers buy. Tax to death the producer and there is no product because nobody will invest when you take 90% of what they make at the point of a gun.

Quote:

I believe that the government has a role to play and that we should have the debate on what size role that should be. Your problem is that you take it for granted. Your generation is the most selfish generation our country has ever seen.

What generation would that be?

Quote:

Taxes are theft? Asinine. You know why? Because you receive something in return for your taxes; military and police to protect us, roads to drive on (so the businesses you have investments in can do commerce), airports, other infrastructure, etc. Now, if you want to create a system where each individual CHOOSES where their tax dollars go? I’d happily entertain the idea. Got news for you, the wall doesn’t poll well.

Taxes are theft. If someone takes something from me and I have no choice that is theft where I come from. Stop paying your taxes and eventually met with guns will come and take the money from you. Be it a government tax to a mafia street tax, it is theft.

Quote:

I am greedy. I have a 20 and an 18 year old. I want them to have the same opportunities that their grandparents had. And when I look at the numbers, the upward mobility engine is stalling, the debt is piling up, middle class wages are stagnant, the income gap has widened, and our planet’s climate is warming to alarming levels. So yeah, I’m greedy. We only have one country and one planet. Damn right I’m greedy.

Yeah, see, they have FAR MORE OPPORTUNITY than their grandparents had. They can learn far more for effectively free than their grandparents ever could have. They can search for jobs online in ways we would have dreamed of before the late 1990s. Then can market a product or service in other ways we could never have thought possible. They can do all of this with a little imagination and effort. They will never get anywhere by crying for the government to take money away from someone else just because someone else has achieved more in life.

BLAME THE GOP--IT'S EASIER THAN GETTING A JOB!

BTW: The climate is not warming. If you did not lap up what the alarmists are saying you would not even notice a difference.

Model T, IPhone and Oil were all technological advances on existing products that there was demand for.

Transport
Telecommunications/Communication
Energy

There wasn't a demand for petroleum before Edwin Drake?

NOBODY is talking about taking 90% of what the producer makes! We can't have a debate about this if you are going to be intellectually dishonest! Who talked about taking "90% of what they make"? When did they talk about taking "90% of what they make"? More rhetorical questions because the answer is NOBODY and NEVER.

The climate isn't warming? I wouldn't notice the difference? I grew up in Alaska. When I was growing up, we NEVER had freezing rain in my area. Never. I know this because when I moved to Kansas City for college, I was shocked the first time I experienced it. I grew up driving on icy roads, but they were nothing like this! Instead of freezing rain, we had cold spells of 50 below temperatures for 2-3 weeks at a time. Now? We get 2-3 occurrences of freezing rain annually and we rarely get a 50 below day, let alone weeks of it. The change is happening all around me. Trust me, Alaskans are noticing. (admittedly, most aren't complaining about it, lol)

Humans have been on this planet for a relatively short amount of time. You'd have to be a damned fool to believe that we aren't having an affect.

Blame the GOP? Here's why we can. The GOP governs on their feelings. The Democrats govern on FACTS. The wall debate is just the latest example of this. Trickle-down is a failure (fact) but yet they keep pushing it (mainly because I think once the myth is busted, conservatives in fly over states will realize they've been voting against their own interests for quite some time and start to hold them accountable).

Quote: AZDuffman

BTW: The climate is not warming. If you did not lap up what the alarmists are saying you would not even notice a difference.

Not warming? Do you have any facts to back that up?

Here are some facts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record



The last 5 years are the 5 warmest years on record since records were kept in 1880. Do you actually think that was random chance? I'd rather win Powerball on one ticket than to bank on that, and it's more likely to happen. Being concerned about 1 in 300+ million shot coming in seems very far from alarmist to me.

Quote: Steverinos

There wasn't a demand for petroleum before Edwin Drake?

NOBODY is talking about taking 90% of what the producer makes! We can't have a debate about this if you are going to be intellectually dishonest! Who talked about taking "90% of what they make"? When did they talk about taking "90% of what they make"?

I believe I saw a request for a 70% Federal rate. Add an 8% State tax for us New Yorkers. Now the 22% left over, assuming it is in the tens of millions, saved up over a lifetime, will be inheritance taxed at over 50%. Leaving around 10% left. So the government will get around 90% of the Bezos/James/Brady/Gates money eventually.
I know they can 'afford' it. I still think it is intrinsically wrong.

Quote: SOOPOO

I believe I saw a request for a 70% Federal rate. Add an 8% State tax for us New Yorkers. Now the 22% left over, assuming it is in the tens of millions, saved up over a lifetime, will be inheritance taxed at over 50%. Leaving around 10% left. So the government will get around 90% of the Bezos/James/Brady/Gates money eventually.
I know they can 'afford' it. I still think it is intrinsically wrong.

70% fed rate on all income? The 70% being floated around lately was income over 10 million. And this is just ordinary income, which most of the ultra rich wouldn't be affected by anyway because their wealth isn't generated by labor.

Which is why we need to be talking more about capital gains vs ordinary income.

Quote: Steverinos

There wasn't a demand for petroleum before Edwin Drake?

NOBODY is talking about taking 90% of what the producer makes! We can't have a debate about this if you are going to be intellectually dishonest! Who talked about taking "90% of what they make"? When did they talk about taking "90% of what they make"? More rhetorical questions because the answer is NOBODY and NEVER.

No serious demand, be%, it was partially answered above. And you keep wanting to go back to "pre-trickle" days, which were 70%. Add in state and local. Add in other taxes and fees. Or look at the 1950s when the Feds had a 90% rate.

Quote:

The climate isn't warming? I wouldn't notice the difference? I grew up in Alaska. When I was growing up, we NEVER had freezing rain in my area. Never. I know this because when I moved to Kansas City for college, I was shocked the first time I experienced it. I grew up driving on icy roads, but they were nothing like this! Instead of freezing rain, we had cold spells of 50 below temperatures for 2-3 weeks at a time. Now? We get 2-3 occurrences of freezing rain annually and we rarely get a 50 below day, let alone weeks of it. The change is happening all around me. Trust me, Alaskans are noticing. (admittedly, most aren't complaining about it, lol)

Humans have been on this planet for a relatively short amount of time. You'd have to be a damned fool to believe that we aren't having an affect.

Freezing rain is weather, not climate change. And we have had record temps all my life, hot and cold. You are correct in one point, humans have not been on earth long enough to get a trendline to even see what the baseline is. No, we are not having an effect. The planet has been changing for 4.5 billion years. It will change another 4.5 billion until the sun swallows the whole thing up.

Quote:

Blame the GOP? Here's why we can. The GOP governs on their feelings. The Democrats govern on FACTS. The wall debate is just the latest example of this. Trickle-down is a failure (fact) but yet they keep pushing it (mainly because I think once the myth is busted, conservatives in fly over states will realize they've been voting against their own interests for quite some time and start to hold them accountable).

No, the GOP is the party of facts. Look at the wall. Walls work. Dems are against it because it is "mean" or "racist" or whatever their feeling of the minute is. Trickle-down WORKS. The 1980s are proof. The 1970s were stagflation. The 1980s were BOOM! Did you ever hear how even Russia lowered their tax rates and got a boom? Ever wonder why high tax nations do not grow as fast as low-tax nations? It is common sense that lower taxes give more growth.

Your talk on trickle-down is the perfect example of talking "feelings." You seem to feel it is unfair someone else did better than you, so they must be punished.

Quote: Steverinos

70% fed rate on all income?

Did not see where it starts. I'll take LeBron james. I'll guess he makes 80 million a year. Lets say he was my neighbor because i am familiar with NYS.

Ill say the ocasio cortez highest rate starts at 10 million. And ill guestimate on the first 10 million he pays 4 million, not 7 million. So he pays 60 million a year in federal tax. He'll pay around 2.5% in self employment tax or the never ending medicare tax plus 'rich penalty'. . say 2 million. NY tax a dribble under 9%. Say 7 million. So 69 million or so out of 80 million. Assuming he is good at saving, the 11 million will eventually be added to his estate. The top estate tax rates are 40% Federal, 16% NY. So LBJ will be able to pass on around 5 million of the 80 million he made under the Ocasio plan, when combined with the present estate tax and state tax laws. So you are right 90% is dishonest. I apologize, the government will eventually get around 94%, not 90%.

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: Steverinos

70% fed rate on all income?

Did not see where it starts. I'll take LeBron james. I'll guess he makes 80 million a year. Lets say he was my neighbor because i am familiar with NYS.

Ill say the ocasio cortez highest rate starts at 10 million. And ill guestimate on the first 10 million he pays 4 million, not 7 million. So he pays 60 million a year in federal tax. He'll pay around 2.5% in self employment tax or the never ending medicare tax plus 'rich penalty'. . say 2 million. NY tax a dribble under 9%. Say 7 million. So 69 million or so out of 80 million. Assuming he is good at saving, the 11 million will eventually be added to his estate. The top estate tax rates are 40% Federal, 16% NY. So LBJ will be able to pass on around 5 million of the 80 million he made under the Ocasio plan, when combined with the present estate tax and state tax laws. So you are right 90% is dishonest. I apologize, the government will eventually get around 94%, not 90%.

Reminds me of an old Looney Tunes cartoon where Porky Pig has an uncle that died and left him a million bucks. He got a letter outlining all the taxes from the estate, last line said, "Which leaves you owing us $1."

Quote: AZDuffman

Reminds me of an old Looney Tunes cartoon where Porky Pig has an uncle that died and left him a million bucks. He got a letter outlining all the taxes from the estate, last line said, "Which leaves you owing us $1."

I don't remember the Porky Pig one, but I remember one with Elmer Fudd (I think the story was, there was a condition where he would lose the inheritance if he harmed a rabbit; at the end, he got a telegram saying his relative had died, but after subtracting all of the taxes, he owed money, with "Please Remit" stamped on it)

Quote: ThatDonGuy

I don't remember the Porky Pig one, but I remember one with Elmer Fudd (I think the story was, there was a condition where he would lose the inheritance if he harmed a rabbit; at the end, he got a telegram saying his relative had died, but after subtracting all of the taxes, he owed money, with "Please Remit" stamped on it)

Probably the same one, I could be wrong about who the protagonist was. Haven't seen it in maybe 40 years.

Quote: AZDuffman

Freezing rain is weather, not climate change. And we have had record temps all my life, hot and cold. You are correct in one point, humans have not been on earth long enough to get a trendline to even see what the baseline is. No, we are not having an effect. The planet has been changing for 4.5 billion years. It will change another 4.5 billion until the sun swallows the whole thing up.

So the 5 hottest years on record being the last 5 since 1880, Jesus just wanted a 1 in 139!/134!/5! = 1 in 402,073,902 shot to come in, or what?

Quote: AZDuffman

Freezing rain is weather, not climate change.

No, no, no, no, no. I’m not talking about one day of freezing rain over 30 years. I’m talking about going from no freezing rain for 30 years to freezing rain 2-3 times PER year. That is not weather. That is climate.

Quote: AZDuffman

No, the GOP is the party of facts. Look at the wall. Walls work.

The GOP is the party of facts? Do you know who the POTUS is? If the walls work, why does Trump have to lie to sell it? Why is he being dishonest about how drugs come into the country? Why is he lying about El Paso? The point is, if the wall was so star spangled awesome, he wouldn’t have to lie and be dishonest to sell it. And if it is an emergency now, it was an emergency when he got elected. But not quite, because, he went after repeal of Obamacare and tax reform before doing anything else. Priorities…right?

Quote: AZDuffman

Trickle-down WORKS. The 1980s are proof. The 1970s were stagflation. The 1980s were BOOM!

I believe that trickle-down has some short-term benefits as a stimulus to the economy. But there is no proof that exists ANYWHERE, either the USA or Russia (lol) that proves that it’s a long term viable tax policy. You never commented on the debt-to-gdp ratio that was at 30%ish pre-trickle down, but now sits around 100%. Look at when the upward trend started. Interestingly enough, the spending-to-gdp ratio has remained relatively flat, with some peaks and valleys, since the same time period that trickle-down was implemented. It’s not too difficult to connect the dots.

And look, I’m not going to say what the top rate should be and at what income level it should kick in. I’m simply saying that it is long overdue to have that debate. I know that when I hear people say #MAGA, they are referring to a time where that top rate was at 90% and a whole lot of people still got rich. Let’s have the discussion. To simply say that there is no room for changes is the definition of belonging to the party of no.

Quote: tringlomane

So the 5 hottest years on record

And the records go back sooooo far, a
whole 140 years or so. We have no
exact data before. All we have is
a tiny amount actual info to go on.

Anybody really looking can see
this is a political argument, not
a factual one.

https://climate.nasa.gov/

Remind me again, how much did Trump allocate to NASA in his 2019 budget? $20 billion?

Quote: AZDuffman

No, the GOP is the party of facts. Look at the wall. Walls work. Dems are against it because it is "mean" or "racist" or whatever their feeling of the minute is. Trickle-down WORKS. The 1980s are proof. The 1970s were stagflation. The 1980s were BOOM! Did you ever hear how even Russia lowered their tax rates and got a boom? Ever wonder why high tax nations do not grow as fast as low-tax nations? It is common sense that lower taxes give more growth.

Your talk on trickle-down is the perfect example of talking "feelings." You seem to feel it is unfair someone else did better than you, so they must be punished.

Party of facts? There's climate change deniers, bans on the study of fun violence, anti stem cell research, the religious right who claim God told them that fill in the blank here should be allowed or prohibited and yes, the wall. Much of these things are argued based on emotion or faith rather than statistics, studies or research. The wall would NOT work for a number of reasons.
1. Mexico is not paying for it as originally promised. That's a huge swing in spending already from them to us.
2. Most illegal immigrants are workers who've come through the country and overstayed their visas. Building a wall and creating obstacles to travel between the countries only makes it harder for them to return home.
3. Ladders, tunnels, and the sea are ways to pass the wall.
4. There would be fewer issues with illegal immigration if the immigration process was reformed. It can take well over a decade for someone applying to become a legal citizen and when your family may be in danger, that isn't really an option.
5. There are far too few courts available to process the number of applications for legal immigration.
6. Nobody knows how much the wall would really cost in the long term. I've heard estimates that its creation could cost more than 20 billion. Now think of the maintenance required on it and the additional staffing.
7. Many home owners would have property divided by the wall. Resolving those issues would be both expensive and time consuming.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I can't think of them now.

Quote: Steverinos

No, no, no, no, no. I’m not talking about one day of freezing rain over 30 years. I’m talking about going from no freezing rain for 30 years to freezing rain 2-3 times PER year. That is not weather. That is climate.

It's weather. Freezing rain is weather. 30 years is a meaningless timeframe.

Quote:

The GOP is the party of facts? Do you know who the POTUS is? If the walls work, why does Trump have to lie to sell it? Why is he being dishonest about how drugs come into the country? Why is he lying about El Paso? The point is, if the wall was so star spangled awesome, he wouldn’t have to lie and be dishonest to sell it. And if it is an emergency now, it was an emergency when he got elected. But not quite, because, he went after repeal of Obamacare and tax reform before doing anything else. Priorities…right?

He is not being dishonest about anything. He is merely pointing out the facts that establishment pols like to pretend do not exist. It is an emergency now because after two years of trying Congress still refuses to act. Trump has in fact been very patient. But when the Democrat Party is now openly calling for open borders there is no choice.

Quote:

I believe that trickle-down has some short-term benefits as a stimulus to the economy. But there is no proof that exists ANYWHERE, either the USA or Russia (lol) that proves that it’s a long term viable tax policy. You never commented on the debt-to-gdp ratio that was at 30%ish pre-trickle down, but now sits around 100%. Look at when the upward trend started. Interestingly enough, the spending-to-gdp ratio has remained relatively flat, with some peaks and valleys, since the same time period that trickle-down was implemented. It’s not too difficult to connect the dots.

The results are there and clear to see. Our problem is a spending problem, not a revenue problem. No person of any intelligence can believe the economy does better when more money is stolen from people. There is then less to spend and invest. Why are you so greedy and selfish about wanting to take more money from people?

Quote:

And look, I’m not going to say what the top rate should be and at what income level it should kick in. I’m simply saying that it is long overdue to have that debate. I know that when I hear people say #MAGA, they are referring to a time where that top rate was at 90% and a whole lot of people still got rich. Let’s have the discussion. To simply say that there is no room for changes is the definition of belonging to the party of no.

If you want to talk about needing revenue, lets talk about having the bottom 40% start to pay income tax. That is a change we can look at. Then maybe we do not have people loving the idea of "free" healthcare, education, child care, and the lot. IMHO taking more than 10% from anyone is criminal. A 10% flat tax from dollar one with no deductions would be a nice idea.

You say it's a spending problem. Follow along. Look at this page. It shows the spending-to-gdp ratio since 1971. Pay attention to the 80s when trickle down was first implemented. It's sitting between 36 ad 38%. Fast forward to the last year in this chart, 2016. It's sitting right at 38%, relatively unchanged, save for the obvious peak after the Great Recession. That means that spending, as a percentage of our GDP, has remained relatively flat SINCE trickle-down was implemented.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-spending-to-gdp

Now look at this chart, the debt-to-gdp ratio.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1381/debt-to-gdp-ratio-historical-chart

You see how it was flat BEFORE trickle-down? Now look at where the upward trajectory of this line starts. I think you used the word BOOM to describe the 80s. Yeah, the debt BOOMED in the 80s and has never flattened out because we are STILL operating under trickle-down! Spending has remained relatively flat while the debt has steadily gone up.

That's it. I'm done for the day. You've ignored every piece of data I've linked to you while you have provided nothing to the conversation. Admittedly, this has been a complete waste of time. That's been my mistake. Won't happen again.

duplicate post

Quote: AZDuffman

And we have had record temps all my life, hot and cold. You are correct in one point, humans have not been on earth long enough to get a trendline to even see what the baseline is. No, we are not having an effect.

You can't both claim that we don't have enough of a trendline, and then also claim we are not having an effect. You derailed your own certainty by saying we don't have enough data to know.

Quote: EvenBob

And the records go back sooooo far, a
whole 140 years or so. We have no
exact data before. All we have is
a tiny amount actual info to go on.

Anybody really looking can see
this is a political argument, not
a factual one.

The 5 hottest years in the last 139 have been the last 5 years. The odds of this happening if Earth's climate has totally random fluctuations is 1 in 402,073,902. This is a FACT based on scientific data and math. Personally, this fact alone is enough to convince me that we are likely partly at fault for this event happening. I definitely can't come up with a logical argument explaining this fact away. Even if I was a hardcore Rupublican, I'd still think the same way.

And AZDuffman ignored my post again...

Maybe he has me blocked.

Wow, a woman told a restaurant manager of a Mexican restaurant to get out of the country because he spoke Spanish to somebody else
WTF
If I go to a Chinese restaurant and the cooks aren't speaking Chinese to each other, I'm walking out and finding a real genuine Chinese restaurant.
https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/woman-yelling-at-mexican-restaurant-manager-for-speaking-spanish-goes-viral

Quote: tringlomane

The 5 hottest years in the last 139 have been the last 5 years. .

Uh huh. There is nothing to compare it to.
What were the five hottest years in the
139 prior to 1766? or 1389? They have
no idea because all they have is one
pitiful bit of info, not 30 chunks
of 139 year segments to compare
against each other.

Then there's this:

Amidst Global Warming Hysteria, NASA Expects Global Cooling

“We see a cooling trend,” said Martin Mlynczak of NASA’s Langley Research Center. “High above Earth’s surface, near the edge of space, our atmosphere is losing heat energy. If current trends continue, it could soon set a Space Age record for cold.”

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/30214-nasa-sees-climate-cooling-trend-thanks-to-low-sun-activity

Quote: terapined

Wow, a woman told a restaurant manager of a Mexican restaurant to get out of the country because he spoke Spanish to somebody else

She wouldn't have liked NYC in 1910.
All the ethnic restaurants where
nobody even spoke English, you
ordered by pointing at something
on the menu.

Quote: EvenBob

She wouldn't have liked NYC in 1910.
All the ethnic restaurants where
nobody even spoke English, you
ordered by pointing at something
on the menu.

We have to give her some leeway because she said she got raped by illegal aliens(plural) . Some people think all rape allegations must be true. I guess it's true when Trump says that illegal aliens are rapists.

Quote: EvenBob

Uh huh. There is nothing to compare it to.
What were the five hottest years in the
139 prior to 1766? or 1389? They have
no idea because all they have is one
pitiful bit of info, not 30 chunks
of 139 year segments to compare
against each other.

Then there's this:

Amidst Global Warming Hysteria, NASA Expects Global Cooling

“We see a cooling trend,” said Martin Mlynczak of NASA’s Langley Research Center. “High above Earth’s surface, near the edge of space, our atmosphere is losing heat energy. If current trends continue, it could soon set a Space Age record for cold.”

https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/30214-nasa-sees-climate-cooling-trend-thanks-to-low-sun-activity

https://climatefeedback.org/claimreview/metros-claims-of-coming-mini-ice-age-have-no-basis-in-reality/

Below was the original article that your link slightly spun. Other sites did worse as explained in the link above.

https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/09/27/the-chill-of-solar-minimum/

We are in a minimum of a solar cycle that happens about every 11 years. It typically has little effect on climate.

And if you want to think the last 5 years being the hottest in the last 139 years is something not to be alarmed about, that's up to you. And fortunately for you, you'll be dead by the time it really matters, so obviously why would you care?

Quote: tringlomane

you'll be dead by the time it really matters, so obviously why would you care?

So will everybody living today, because
nothing alarming is happening except
hoaxers using it as a tool to redistribute
wealth.

Still hearing blowback on Amazon not
going to NY. Developers had bought
land in the area and sold apartments
already, had hired contractors, had
things in motion. To say they aren't
happy is an understatement.

Faucahonts's name keeps coming
up, she had a lot to do with this.
Somebody said it really pulled
back the curtain on her and what
her real agenda is.

Quote: EvenBob

So will everybody living today, because
nothing alarming is happening except
hoaxers using it as a tool to redistribute
wealth.

I disagree. The younger members here might feel some effects later on, and most certainly their kids and grandkids. But glad you think a 1 in 400 million shot is "normal". Are vaccines worthless too? Is any science not BS to you? Or is only the science that fits your beliefs is right?

That last proposed question is what really scares me. More and more Americans seem to not believe scientists if they tell them things they don't want to believe. Science is not based on making crap up to mislead and swindle people. That's what Trump does.

Hilarious! Billboard in NYC.

Bernie is raising money like crazy, he'll
be the front runner because that's what
America wants, an 80 year old avowed
Commie in the WH.

Actually, it'll be decades before Dems
nominate a white man to run. It'll
be a woman of color, or Hillary.

Quote: EvenBob

It'll
be a woman of color, or Hillary.

So Kamala or Hillary is your guess?

Quote: ams288

So Kamala or Hillary is your guess?

Kamala is the betting favorite as of today. But it is really wide open. Hillary around 8th choice.

Quote: ams288

So Kamala or Hillary is your guess?

Kreepy Kamala is totally unlikable, and
she sounds like a dunce when she's
not reading a script.

This is something that's been on my mind regarding politics besides nothing about politics: how do you win against a candidate that promises free stuff?

Quote: djatc

This is something that's been on my mind regarding politics besides nothing about politics: how do you win against a candidate that promises free stuff?

You mean how Hillary beat Bernie? People
aren't stupid, they know it's not really 'free'.

I think it goes something like this. People hear free and to them free=socialism=a hard no. The phrase if it sounds too good to be true it probably is is probably relevant here.

Quote: djatc

This is something that's been on my mind regarding politics besides nothing about politics: how do you win against a candidate that promises free stuff?

You can't. This is why we were founded as a republic with a constitution that specifically limited the size and scope of fed gov. The founding fathers saw democracies fail in the past. Slowly, people clamoured for free stuff and 100 years ago the judicial branch caved. The dems tax and spend and apparently the republicans now borrow and spend. There's no such thing as a fiscal conservative anymore. We're past the point of no return. The AP move, IMO, is to get out of US assets (including cash).

Quote: EvenBob

Hilarious! Billboard in NYC.

I love her...

Yeah know it's pretty interesting that out of all the people blaming AOC for the Amazon deal, NOBODY, nobody on Fox, nobody on this board, nobody across the right wing blogosphere (at least that I've seen) has even mentioned the name Michael Gianaris or the Public Authorities Control Board.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/02/15/amazon-new-york-225077

https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/this-is-the-man-who-delivered-the-death-blow-to-amazon-deal/

Quote: Steverinos

Yeah know it's pretty interesting that out of all the people blaming AOC for the Amazon deal, NOBODY, nobody on Fox, nobody on this board, nobody across the right wing blogosphere (at least that I've seen) has even mentioned the name Michael Gianaris or the Public Authorities Control Board.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/02/15/amazon-new-york-225077

https://nypost.com/2019/02/14/this-is-the-man-who-delivered-the-death-blow-to-amazon-deal/

She's pretty darned giddy about having it killed...kind of like she is taking credit, even if it isn't her doing.

People in politics do it all the time. Trump and Obama with the economy, etc.

Sometimes it works. Sometimes you end up being held accountable for something you did not do.

Quote: RogerKint

You can't. This is why we were founded as a republic with a constitution that specifically limited the size and scope of fed gov. The founding fathers saw democracies fail in the past. Slowly, people clamoured for free stuff and 100 years ago the judicial branch caved. The dems tax and spend and apparently the republicans now borrow and spend. There's no such thing as a fiscal conservative anymore. We're past the point of no return. The AP move, IMO, is to get out of US assets (including cash).

Another aspect of it is how good the sales pitch is delivered. Most politicians are selling some kind of snake oil; the magic in it is getting people to believe that they need the product even though the other side says the product isn't what is built up to be. There really are damned few statesmen left in politics on either side. That, of course, is out fault for being okay with all of their bull crap for too long.

It may be too late.

Take illegal immigration. Prosecuting identity thieves (using wrongly obtained social security number and other things to mislead employers and the government) and strict eVerify would put a big crimp in it. Democrats need the votes and Republicans need cheap labor for businesses like meatpacking, so the citizens of the US get screwed.

Many problems are easier to solve, at least partially, than they would let us think.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Dear Face.

I love you.

So sorry you're torn up.

Please do keep ranting. We've missed you.

I'm sorry dear, I'm afraid I can't do that ;)

There is something very wrong here. I can't quite explain it, can't wrap it all up under one bow, but I know what it is and I know that it's there. I'm quite familiar with it as I've dealt with it for so many years dealing with guns; I of course am speaking of these waves of public opinion that seem to just... coalesce out of nothingness. They don't seem to have a root, and they damn sure don't exist in factual reality, yet... there here. Existing in reality.

You've watched me engage in gun debates before. Are you starting to understand how I feel? Like, right now we're having a debate, and an actual feature of this debate is that scores of scientists, scholars, historians, economists and journalists have all dedicated their entire lives and have somehow all gathered under one unified banner to defraud the public, and a lone TV reality star with decades of provable fraud and deception in his past is serving as of the Beacon of Truth and Honesty. That's not me being a smartass, that's not reducio ad absurdum. This is real f#$%ing life. This is an actual argument we're having here, in the year of our lord 2019.

I'm not playing this game, Babs. We can with no issue whatsoever prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that a vast majority of illegal aliens come by plane and simply overstay, and a vast majority of these illegals are Chinese. This is a key fact in what is being bandied as our biggest issue, yet it's never even mentioned. Instead, we're going to spend 10's of billions on 16th century technology and pay for what was promised we wouldn't all to address just a sidebar of the main issue, and a strong minority of people are absolutely clamoring for it anyway. This is not reality, dear Babs. This is not life based on facts and data. This is mania, plain and simple.

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, and I try to post in a manner that avoids sounding like one. And I DO NOT think this this here is one of them. BUT, with a bit of a background in psychology, it's quite easy to see that things are amiss. I do not mean to imply that there's some sort of media cabal pulling strings from behind the red curtain with the goal of world domination. But I absolutely do mean to imply that media itself absolutely hires literal scores of psychologists to determine what things stick in your craw, what things grate on you, what things will keep you coming back. Do you understand what that means? It means all of this has NOTHING to do with your personal welfare, your education, your elucidation, your contemplation, and EVERYTHING to do with their simple dollar. I'll say without a shadow of a doubt that their goal has ZERO to do with giving you the information to be a well rounded individual and EVERYTHING to do with you becoming a prisoner to their respective teat of stimulating material.

I won't be a part of it. I'm not going to be dragged into the gutter and be conscripted into the R v D war to combat my brothers and sisters at home. F#$% that. Nor am I going to waste my time parroting talking head hot takes and lobbing them at created opposition for the illusion of some personal victory. F#$% that AND f#$% you, too. I'm not playing this game. I'd much rather go out and build something, put a few stiches into the fabric of society, and be a part of holding this all together. You know, helping your fellow man, minding your neighbor, keeping your brother, all that Jesus stuff. MAGA, in other words. Only done properly.

You wanna talk shop, maybe fire up that Forum Politics thread and we can bend some ears with some proper discourse. Otherwise, this lazy, pot smoking, anti-cap, show-tune-listenin' quasi-millennial hippie queer needs to take what's left of his arm and get this hardwood floor installed. Make Area Gleam Again.

Quote: Steverinos

Yeah know it's pretty interesting that out of all the people blaming AOC for the Amazon deal, NOBODY, nobody on Fox, nobody on this board, nobody across the right wing blogosphere (at least that I've seen) has even mentioned the name Michael Gianaris or the Public Authorities Control Board.

Because she is the face of your party and she was the most happy for killing a good jobs deal for her district. She will get the most mention.

Scott Adams said something interesting. 99%
of people get their political opinions from
the media. The media brain washes them.

This is why the biggest critics of Rush Limbaugh
have never listened to his show. They're
terrified it will effect their secure brainwashed
world.

Even Al Franken, who wrote a book with Rush
in the title, admitted he never listened to the
show even once. He felt he was an expert from
what he'd heard in the media.

When people on the Left listen to him and
are 'converted', it's because the arguments
Rush uses are so much more logical and
compelling than what the Left has.

During a political season, I listen to CNN
and MS all the time, mostly to laugh at them.
You never hear the opposite, because the
Left refuses to listen to Rush, they're scared
out of their wits even thinking about it.

Quote: EvenBob

Scott Adams said something interesting. 99%
of people get their political opinions from
the media. The media brain washes them.

This is why the biggest critics of Rush Limbaugh
have never listened to his show. They're
terrified it will effect their secure brainwashed
world.

Even Al Franken, who wrote a book with Rush
in the title, admitted he never listened to the
show even once. He felt he was an expert from
what he'd heard in the media.

When people on the Left listen to him and
are 'converted', it's because the arguments
Rush uses are so much more logical and
compelling than what the Left has.

During a political season, I listen to CNN
and MS all the time, mostly to laugh at them.
You never hear the opposite, because the
Left refuses to listen to Rush, they're scared
out of their wits even thinking about it.

I’ve listened to his show while stuck in a car with my dad before.

Rush did not magically convert me into being a racist a**hole like he is.