Wiz Index Dozen

I read AMS's great trip report on his recent stay at the Encore, and TigerWu commented that things sure seem expensive there. I agree with Tiger, but only have my own limited experience to go by. It got me wondering if we can come up with a collection of 12 or so items that are generally available at every property that would allow for comparisons "apples to apples"?

We can call it the "WoV Incidental Average" or something else catchy. While a lot of this would be free to players, we would use the menu or sundry store on the property prices. What should go on the list?

Small Orange Juice
Small Coffee
Plain Bagel
Bottle of water (750ml)
Snickers bar (regular size)
Postcard with image of "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign
Steak and Eggs at the 24 hour restaurant
Chapstick

I have a feeling that these type of things would be the same general price everywhere. I always thought the price differences were in the rooms, valet, resort fees, table mins and restaurant/buffet prices.

I agree with PokerGrinder. I think the better comparison would be what the typical tourist will buy or use during their 3 night stay.

Rooms (thursday, Friday, and Saturday)
Two meals per day (3 coffee shop meals and at least one nice meal)
Massage
Night Club
Sundries
etc

Quote: Ayecarumba

I read AMS's great trip report on his recent stay at the Encore, and TigerWu commented that things sure seem expensive there. I agree with Tiger, but only have my own limited experience to go by. It got me wondering if we can come up with a collection of 12 or so items that are generally available at every property that would allow for comparisons "apples to apples"?

We can call it the "WoV Incidental Average" or something else catchy. While a lot of this would be free to players, we would use the menu or sundry store on the property prices. What should go on the list?

Small Orange Juice
Small Coffee
Plain Bagel
Bottle of water (750ml)
Snickers bar (regular size)
Postcard with image of "Welcome to Las Vegas" sign
Steak and Eggs at the 24 hour restaurant
Chapstick

Cost of Marlboro Lights, they can vary greatly. At the gift shop at Tropicana, about $14, Cromwell $16-17, Casino Royale $9 out of a machine in the back. NV taxes on smokes, not that high, I'm told they should cost just over $6.

Toothbrush.
$4.99 at Harrahs. $1.29 at South Point.
Prices are several years old but I'm sure still reflect the differences.

They charge for toothbrushes? I’ve only had to ask for one a few times but hotels have always given them free. I think caesars was one of them, keep in mind I was in a comped room.

Quote: PokerGrinder

They charge for toothbrushes?

You bet.
Back when Terribles was Terribles a toothbrush was 99 cents there and Eight Dollars at the Venetian.

I once had a brief discussion with that history of gambling guy at the university of Nevada about an Index of costs components in an attempt to develop an "average" Vegas visitor but it was difficult to decide upon average.

My thinking was that an ad for 50 percent off a buffet is meaningless to someone who eats at the high end restaurant or who eats at the Deli. Its also meaningless to someone who is RFB.

If a man knows his wife will want to shop and his two kids will need arcade coinage and movie tickets, a modest saving on an airplane ticket may not mean much.

cigarettes? If you ask the 'cigarette girl' at one casino they are a fortune a pack but if you go thirty steps away to a vending machine they are radically cheaper. And you don't have to tip the vending machine.

Bottle of water? I go to a casino to get that because its a fortune in the room and the money goes to charity not the casino. Orange juice? It was eons ago but I remember the early morning waitress who brought be two orang juice cartons an two water bottles when I first showed up one morning because she remembered me from a previous morning.

Pastry? Yeah coffee and pastry is great particularly if your companion is comatose until a coffee and Danish in the morning but why pay seven dollars at Starbucks when its free in the casino and you get it in a bag to take back to your room?

Gym session? Heck, some casinos have a fitness room that barely merits the name others have a full fledged gym with an attendant, towels and some scenery that is already on the treadmills. How are you going to compare prices?

For solo visitors some items might be okay but if one is lugging the wife and kids with them, movie passes and arcade tokens are vital and no amount of a savings on a toothbrush is going to count for nothing.

Quote: PokerGrinder

I have a feeling that these type of things would be the same general price everywhere. I always thought the price differences were in the rooms, valet, resort fees, table mins and restaurant/buffet prices.

This is why actually collecting prices would be valiable. While you’re impression is that these prices would be the same, others recall prices varying widely.

The trick is selecting representative items that would be generally available at most properties. Many don’t offer spas, but I like the pack of cigarettes and toothbrush.

How about t-shirt with property name?

Quote: Ayecarumba

We can call it the "WoV Incidental Average" or something else catchy.

I've actually seriously thought about doing this. Once when I was doing a tournament at the Venetian (before I worked there) I forgot to bring a toothbrush, so bought one from that convenience store by the hotel elevators. It was like $8! I was rather upset about it and wanted to do some kind of public shaming over it. To be honest, I think many properties would be just as bad.

What do you guys think? Should I do it?

I like the idea, Aye. I might weight the index more heavily towards restaurant prices. Not counting the room itself and gambling expenses, food is by far my biggest expense. I think you could also add average table minimum and VP paytables to the index to cover the gambling side of things.

Quote: Wizard

What do you guys think? Should I do it?

Wiz, if you have the time and inclination, I think it would be a valuable addition to the hotel reviews to also add some sort of pricing index.

Possible LIST:

Water from room bar.
Water from sundries counter.

Bagel w/ cream cheese from specialty shop in hotel.

Gourmet coffee from Starbucks like place.

Toothbrush/toothpaste

Sewing kit (needle thread thimble safety pin)

Nail clippers set

Shoe polish

Deodorant/Anti-Perspirant

Eyeshade for sunlight

Sleepmask

Generic watch battery

cigarettes/lighter/etc. for smokers.

Poncho

Rubbers (for shoes!!)

Quote: Wizard

What do you guys think? Should I do it?

Yes, it would be very interesting.

Cost of cheapest room on a Saturday night

Cost of higher-end suite on a Saturday night

Table minimums on a Saturday night (maybe only the "big 3;" craps, BJ, roulette, main floor only)

Approximate taxi/uber/lyft cost from airport, OR mileage from airport


And something cool to have but trickier to figure out would be other casinos within walking distance. By "walking distance" you'd have to pick a number like "10 minute walk" for the average person, or just a distance like "1/4 mile" or whatever.

I like the idea but I think rooms are too difficult to compare and get anything meaningful. There is too much variability. Cost of buffet for a specific meal (e,g. lunch) should be pretty good metric. For what it's worth, the other day I was comparing the steakhouses in several East coast casinos using the cost of a 'standard' steak dinner: Caesar salad, 10 oz filet mignon, and a bottle of Stag's Leap 'Artemis' 2015 (for some reason they all seem to have that one on their wine lists)

• Bar Americain at Mohegan: salad $14, steak $51, wine: $169
• David Burke at Foxwoods: salad: $18, steak: $58, wine: $126
• Old Homestead at Borgota: Salad: $13, steak: $50, wine: $123

Quote: Wizard

I've actually seriously thought about doing this. Once when I was doing a tournament at the Venetian (before I worked there) I forgot to bring a toothbrush, so bought one from that convenience store by the hotel elevators. It was like $8! I was rather upset about it and wanted to do some kind of public shaming over it. To be honest, I think many properties would be just as bad.

What do you guys think? Should I do it?

Naturally, my vote would be Yes, please do it.

I agree that room prices would not be helpful for this since they vary by client, but also because they are easily available on travel sites. However, the uncomped price of parking in the properties lot could be added in.

TumblingBones' salad/entree/drink meal comparo would be interesting. I was trying to get something similar with the "steak and eggs"

Maybe add the price of a mixed drink from the casino bar?

Suggestions:
Bag of chips from the floor vending machine.
Protein bar from the gift shop.
Rubber (condom) from the minibar or gift shop.
Toothbrush - include whether they provide for guests on request.
Bottle of water - Include if complimentary en suite - Vegas tap water is yucky.
Ice tea in coffee shop. Include if refills included.
Best bargain on the property if you can find one.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Toothbrush - include whether they provide for guests on request.

Does anyone do that outside of China? I've been to China five times and I believe there is a law that every hotel room must come equipped with a toothbrush and toothpaste. However, the quality of both seemed quite poor, so I left them alone every time. I'm spoiled on the good American stuff.

Quote: Wizard

Does anyone do that outside of China? I've been to China five times and I believe there is a law that every hotel room must come equipped with a toothbrush and toothpaste. However, the quality of both seemed quite poor, so I left them alone every time. I'm spoiled on the good American stuff.

Most hotels around the country offer free tooth brushes, razors, feminine products if you ask at the front desk.

Quote: PokerGrinder

They charge for toothbrushes? I’ve only had to ask for one a few times but hotels have always given them free. I think caesars was one of them, keep in mind I was in a comped room.

PokerGrinder,

Well of course they'll give you a free one... what else are they going to do with all the toothbrushes inadvertently left behind? ;-)

Dog Hand

Quote: DRich

Most hotels around the country offer free tooth brushes, razors, feminine products if you ask at the front desk.

There's usually a little sign in the room or note in the resort book if they do that. "Forget something? We might be able to help!" That's the type of thing they meant. I would say every business-class or luxury hotel does it (Hilton, Hyatt, Mariott, etc) and most better chains. Many independents.

Used to include things like aspirin and pepto-bismol, too, but lawsuits about ingestibles killed that part.

I think items to add, cost of a regular cup of coffee and cost of Coors light at the bar(without playing). Not really sure about the Coors Light angle, some bars might have promotions on other beers. Maybe cheapest decent beer at the bar. I don't drink Iron City Light beer, but will to save a buck, for example. However probably would pass on Bud Light.

Index should be weighted to reflect what folks are more likely to buy. Food, beer, coffee, resort fee, parking fee all should be included because you pay for those all the time. When's the last time you paid for a toothbrush at a casino? Probably about as often as you bought a condom there.

Quote: TumblingBones

Index should be weighted to reflect what folks are more likely to buy. Food, beer, coffee, resort fee, parking fee all should be included because you pay for those all the time. When's the last time you paid for a toothbrush at a casino? Probably about as often as you bought a condom there.

Because you definitely need to brush your teeth after that . . . !